| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
To Bruce, Cas, Ernie, Jeralee, Lydell, Onesimus, Rennie, Susan and Timo: Could I persuade each one of you to briefly answer this question for me: Do you think there is a danger in converting to "evangelicalism" instead of to Christ? If you would, please answer with "Aye," "Nay," or "Not voting," then briefly explain your answer? I need your brains, since I have some follow-up questions. Thanks. Yours in Christ, Jude the Obscure | ||
| Susan |
Hey Jude, (Isn't that a song? ha ha!) Anyway, thanks for thinking I have a brain! That's more credit than I get from my sda family members. Now on to your question. I'm going to answer nay but I'm a bit puzzled by your question. I can only speak for myself and perhaps the others share this opinion. I didn't convert to evangelicalism. I converted to Christianity. You see, I've concluded that adventism is a cult and their teachings are unbiblical and their prophet/founder was a false prophet. Christ rescued me from the darkness of this terrible spiritual abuse. When I accepted the invitation from God to be saved by faith in the finished work of Christ, my whole life changed. It was like learning about the bible and God for the first time. It was very important to me to learn what it means to be a true Christian (I'm still learning that's part of the joy in the journey!)Many groups call themselves Christian, I wanted to align myself with the biblical evangelicals so that I would have a standard to go by. Of course I'm a follower of Christ first! Other titles are secondary. But when I became reformed it was also very important to understand what this meant before accepting it. You see, it's of utmost importance to me that what I beleive checks out with scripture. In fact scripture commands us to judge all teaching, spirits and prophets in light of God's holy word. To Bruce I want to say thanks for your latest post (amen brother! and that's coming from a "frozen chosen"!) Anyway, what I love most about evangelical Christians is that their only athority is scripture alone. This flys in the face of sda's. Oh, they can say EGW doesn't matter now or they can give excuses until the "cows come home" but when they renounce EGW a hundred percent and change many of their statements of faith then I might change my mind about them. Please don't start telling me I can't judge, or I'm not focusing on Christ's blood alone or that I don't love sda's. All of these things matter to me. But as a Christian with the bible as my only source of authority I must stand for something. I feel that evangelical Christians are just classifying themselves in a certain way to distinguish them from other so called Christian gorups (like mormons, JW, branch dividians and the list could go on). Someone said it in an earlier post that an EA is an oxymoron. I would have to agree with this. If you are an evangelical, how could you continue to belong to a church that has ties to a false prophet? I am very puzzled by this. If you are sda and decide to become evangelical why hang on to anything associated with this cultic denomination? Frankly, I just don't understand. Sorry to have gone on. I just happened to have some extra time today. Thanks Jude for asking this question. Hope I've been a little help. God Bless! Susan | ||
| Lydell |
I, too, am a bit puzzled by your question, Jude. As Susan I think pointed out quite well, there is "danger" in taking your main identity in any label over Christ. When I was Baptist, I knew folks who saw the Baptists as being totally right in every way and others therefore wrong in lots of stuff. But, I don't remember them judging the Methodist, for instance, as not being Christian. It didn't mean the Baptist person wasn't Christian, they just had some stuff to learn yet about being a bit more open. They believed in all the cornerstone doctrines of Christianity. The problem with the Adventists is that they have added some "buts" to those cornerstone doctrines based on the writings of the false prophet EGW and so have removed themselves from the label of "orthodox Christian". There's a big difference. I am a Christian first and foremost. My doctrine in rooted in the word of God, not my church (which is a part of an association not a denomination). I also happen to be a member of an evangelical church. The two are in no way contradictory. Maybe you should explain your question a bit more. | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Thanks, Susan. Too bad you're SDA family members aren't up to seeing your excellent mind at work. It's not that they're not intelligent. I'm sure they must be, since they're related to you. But mystification does something to one's brain and mind. SDA mystification is a special study and interest of mine. Yes the Adventists have added plenty of "buts." Also some "ands." But at the end of Revelation there is a curse on anyone who adds or detracts from the words contained therein. Thanks again for your excellent Christ-centered answer to my question. I shall consider it very prayerfully. Via con Dios, Jude the Obsucre | ||
| Jude the Obsure |
Lydell, I must leave for an appointment right now, so will have to reply to you later. Just wanted to thank you for answering so well. Sitting on His footstool and worshipping at His feet, I remain, Jude the Obscure. | ||
| Ernie |
Jude: I am not sure where are you coming from. However, I am not an Evangelical; I'm an evangelical. By evangelical, I mean I'm a follower of the Gospel (euangelion) of Jesus. I confess that Christ is my Lord and Saviour, and that through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit in my life I live the ethics required by the New Testament. If one converts to a religious system (eg, Evangelicalism, Adventism, etc.), there is always the danger to miss the Author and Perfecter of our faith. By the way, after leaving the SDA Church I promised myself never to be part of a denomination. I have fellowship with any Christian who believes and lives according to the New Testament teachings. Professionally, I belong to an association of churches; and I really enjoy their fellowship and Christian ministry. However, I am not a convert to any particular group. To your question, a big aye. Waiting for your follow-up questions, in Christ, Ernie | ||
| Timo K. |
Jude, you asked our opinions about if there is a danger of converting to "evangelicalism" instead of to Christ". I would say YES. It depends what you have in the "baggage". To prove this I use my own life as an example. (very subjective proof). My first real confrontation with Mrs White's writings and the SDA teology happened at the end of 60's when I was still at highschool. I read a book by Watchman Nee. This Chinese preacher taught me that Christ is my everything and so on. My reaction was no more White or adventism, this is the real stuff. I started to spread Nee's books among adventist young and old. Specially I liked "the Normal Christian Life" book. Now I had the real message and those who didn't accept WN, were legalistic and in danger of not being saved. (shut door mentality). In the 70's I found new "material" to spread. When moving to Denmark, I was introduced to Bob Brinsmead's writings (Present Truth and later the magazine was called Verdict, Quest etc. These writings, which I still appresiate, was spread to Scandinavian adventist. At one time I got 100 extra copies each month to evangelize legalistic adventist. The Pastor to my Church called me several times and wanted to talk to me. Finally when I agreed to speak with him he, in a friendly way, suggested if I want to leave SDA church. The spreading of Verdict was not the only reason for my pastors suggestion of leaving the SDA church. There was also some "legitime" reasons. I told the pastor that I am happiely leaving this legalistic Whitecentered Church, and then presented to the pastor some new Verdict material. After Denmark, I lived in USA, Sweden and Finland. Strangely my shut door mentality followed me all along. It did't help how Christ-centered my theology was, I seemed to find good reasons to shut the door for legalistic adventist people. Even when at the 80's I started rather to go to a Bar for "a couple" of drinks, than to any Christian gatherings, I had often fierse discussions with the rest of the "drunk club" about Jesus and His Righteousness. Those guys where otherwise good friends but theologically I shut the door in front of all with legalistic viewpoints. (evangelistic-drunk Pharisee) After 10 years of drinking and smoking, I foud that it is not just drinking, it is a drinking problem. I needed a "Power higer than myself" to become free. And thanks to God I haven't been drinking for 9 years. Also about 93 I joined the sda-conference church by phone explaining at the same time my problems with IJ and EGW's "infallable" teachings. I was accepted to conference church, which I am not sure had happened at the nearest local church. But I must say the alcohol problem was a smaller problem than the shut door mentality. Lukely I started to think about people like late Mother Teresa, who might not be Evangelical in theological sence but her deeds were "evangelical". She gave food to the hungry and water to the thursty and took strangers home which qualities is looked, according to Jesus, at the last Judgement. Even some legalistic advetist have helped me out after too much drinking. Again, I might be able to critisize Mother Teresa's theology, but hardly her love for the needy. I can also critisize one of my former teacher of his White-centerness, but I have hard time critisizing his readiness to encourage me weather I was drinking or spreadin "heretic" material. He seems to be same towards me, and he still prays for me daily. Of course there is nothing wrong to be theologically right, the more right the better, but love is still altogether a different ball-game. Love is the real stuff. Love is not received by being theologically correct, love is received by the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is a gift, not a reward for right theology. There's nothing wrong to critisize wrong doctrine, but it is really wrong to critisize other people spiritually. Only God knows the heart. And for everyone there are wide open Arms and a kind Voice saying WHO-SO-Ever. timo, a recoverig evangelical shutdoorist, also a recovering SDA-hater. Having a goal of seeing people without labels, but as human beings. PS: For me there are only adventist friends no lagalistic adventists. For me there are only doctrinal legalistic teaching not legalistic personalities. I leave God to judge personalities, I judge doctrine (it is also easier that way) |
