| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
NIV Acts 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. | ||
| Max |
NIV 1 Corinthians 16:1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. | ||
| Max |
Allenette, Thanks for having recognized the "communist" nature of the early church. (See my five posts just above.) Your insight is so excellent it's blinding. I've always recognized this quality in you, though you may not be aware of it. | ||
| Max |
Allenette again, Like Ken you are being used by the Almighty to advance his sovereign purposes on earth. Whether you know it or not, you are but clay in the Potter's hands. Praising God for you, Max of the Cross | ||
| Jtree |
Max, have you heard the song, Jesus Freak? "My best friend was born in a manger...." | ||
| Allenette |
well, sometimes its DUH....I realized that I had been brought up in a communist society (SDA) during high school (boarding school) and it lights my fire even more often when I relaize that the American society tht I am living in, is being turned into a commmunist society by degrees. (Notsomething that EVER gets discusseed on here, altho it is something that applies to our everyday life very subtly) Its like being in a stew pot that the fire is turning up by degrees VERY SLOWLY so as to almost not be noticed until you're sweating and wondering WHY??? You all are in CAlifornia and would have to be BLIND to not notice the change in "climate" there. But of course this isnt a "spiritual" subject so it doesnt seem to matter on here. Oh well, I tried. :-) | ||
| Joni |
Allenette, I was raised in Ca. I have 2 Brothers that still live there. My brother in Torrence has been saying the same thing for years. Joni | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Annette, Actually, I have seen a change happening for about 10 years now and I've always looked at it in a spiritual sense. I know that others will say that we cannot tell when the last days are or the whether means nothing but I keep watch. Not only on the whether and seeing just how hot it's getting and also the strange seasons,,if we can call them seasons anymore. I watch the world in general, ie. politics, crime, the push for the ten commandments, earthquakes, tornadoes..etc. etc..Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip saga. But, if I mention them, it's as though I've just mentioned something completely off the wall. So, I keep watching and seeing but not too often do I mention them. Of course then again, I could be really really out there and completely nuts. It's obvious to me that there are great changes and not for the better either. God bless you Annette, and He does ya know :) Denise | ||
| Max |
Jtree, No I don't think I've heard the song "Jesus Freak," but the name sounds intriguing. Do you like it? | ||
| Max |
Allenette, not to worry! If you are correct "that the American society that I am living in, is being turned into a commmunist society by degrees," then it is the Lord's doing and ONLY the Lord's doing. Our God is SOVEREIGN! Meaning his control over all events on earth is ABSOLUTE! Satan is not sovereign and has no control whatsoever save over the minds of bewitched people [Galatians 3:1]. He is imprisoned in a locked dungeon called the Abyss (Revelation 20:1-3) and only gets out on parole. Parole occurs only when an angel from heaven flies down with a key and releases him for carefully timed periods to do his express duty of carrying out the orders of his, Satan's, Commander-in-Chief God Almighty! If American society is being turned into a commmunist society by degrees, then you have sufficient evidence that God's will is being carried out! It's all happened before. Unroll the scroll of the prophet Habakkuk and read for yourself: NIV Habakkuk 1:5 "Look at the nations and watch -- and be utterly amazed. For I [the Lord] am going to do something in your days that you would not believe, even if you were told. 6 I am raising up the Babylonians [or, in this case, the Communists], that ruthless and impetuous people, who sweep across the whole earth to seize dwelling places not their own. 7 They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honor. 8 Their horses [tanks? jets? rockets? smart bombs?] are swifter than leopards, fiercer than wolves at dusk. Their cavalry gallops headlong; their horsemen come from afar. They fly like a vulture swooping to devour; 9 they all come bent on violence. Their hordes advance like a desert wind and gather prisoners like sand. 10 They deride kings and scoff at rulers. They laugh at all fortified cities; they build earthen ramps and capture them. 11 Then they sweep past like the wind and go on -- guilty men, whose own strength is their god." Such a scenario "calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's [Jesus Christ's New Testament] commandments [which omit the Sabbath requirement] and remain faithful to Jesus. NIV Revelation 14:12. Therefore, gather at the foot of the cross of the God who allowed himself to be murdered and and then resurrected Himself. In patient expectation, Max of the Cross | ||
| Joni |
Max, It's funny you should mention Habakkuk. I am studying this book with some women and I love it. There is so much in it. Yes! God is Soverign and He raised up the Chaldaens, and they will pay. I love Habakkuk's ending 3:16-19 "I heard and my inward parts trembled, At the sound my lips quivered. Decay enters my bones, And in my place I tremble. Because I must wait quietly for the day of distress, For the people to arise who will invade us. THOUGH THE FIG TREE SHOULD NOT BLOSSOM AND THERE BE NO FRUIT ON THE VINES, THOUGH THE YIELD OF THE OLIVE SHOULD FAIL AND THE FIELDS PRODUCE NO FOOD, THOUGH THE FLOCK SHOULD BE CUT OFF FROM THE FOLD AND THERE BE NO CATTLE IN THE STALLS, I WILL EXULT IN THE LORD I WILL REJOICE IN THE GOD OF MY SALVATION. THE LORD GOD IS MY STRENGTH, AND HE HAS MADE MY FEET LIKE HINDS FEET, AND MAKES ME WALK ON HIGH PLACES." What can I say? There is so much! Joni | ||
| Cindy |
"Jesus Freak" is by a group called dcTalk... my son has their CD's. (They have a website, www.dctalk.com) We also have a book they put out recently, in conjunction with "The Voice of the Martyrs," called "Jesus Freaks" also. It has many stories of those who followed Christ completely...even to death. Some of the lyrics to this song are: "[What will people think When they hear that I'm a Jesus Freak? What will people do When they find that's it's true?] Separated, I cut myself clean From a past that comes back in my darkest of dreams Been apprehended by a spiritual force And a GRACE that replaced all the me I've divorced... Kamikaze, my death is gain I've been marked by my Maker A peculiar display The high and lofty, they see me as weak Cause I won't live and die for the power they seek .... People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger That my best friend was born in a manger People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger THAT MY BEST FRIEND WAS BORN IN A MANGER What will people think [What will people think] What will people do [What will people do] I don't really care [What else can I say] There ain't no disguising the truth [Jesus is the way]" Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Jtree |
Cindy thanks for supplying the lyrics. That is great. Max, yes I like it, this song and many others like it, can be heard from the online radio station I listen to called The Effect. At night before I go to work, the DJ's show is called THE CROSS on the Effect. This is in the evenings and goes this show goes off at 11:00 PM EST. He has ALOT TO SAY in brief. And is has it down. http://www.effectradio.com Got to check it out. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I was reading this thread and had a question. What is Adventist today and who puts it out and are they pro SDA? I went there and saw all kinds of Desmond Ford stuff on it. Could it be they have embraced him again? Did I really miss out on something? Also, what about Morris Venden? I was told by my brother that he teaches straight righteousness by faith, if this is true, how come he hasn't been disfellowshipped from the church? | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Adventist Today is an independent magazine (with about 1600 bi-monthly circulation currently) which tends to reflect the views of what we might call "liberal Adventism". Its overriding view of Adventism right now is that Adventism is a big umbrella, big enough to shelter all of "us" with differing theological convictions, bonded by our one thing in common: our loyalty to Adventism. It tends to criticize efforts to demand doctrinal loyalty, such as the recent declaration that all SDA relgion professors had to sign a statement of Adventist belief. Desmond Ford, by the way, was never disfellowshiped, only defrocked. He has remained a staunch Sabbatarian even though he rejected the IJ. He has actually been somewhat "useful" over the past few years because he's been willing to give talks on the Sabbath in areas where some SDA's, even pastors, were leaving the church and beginning to worship on Sunday. Morris Venden teaches a form of righteousness by faith, but he is a loyal Adventist. His righteousness by faith never declares that Jesus fulfilled the law and we live by the Holy Spirit instead. It's a "schizy" type of righteousness by faith, because it says a lot of things right, yet it still wants one to keep the Sabbath. It goes up to the essentials of faith, but it doesn't walk on through the door of surrendering the old covenant, the Sabbath, and belonging to the church. Praise God for dealing with us individually! Colleen | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Yes, Desmond Ford is still a staunch Sabbatarian. I have had some direct dealings with him through e-mails. He made one statement that may interest us. ìWhile it is true that no outward observance of days or signs saves any soul, yet the duty of worship and regular worship and a whole day of worship seems a primary obligation to those who have already found righteousness in Christ. Nonetheless, I believe with all my heart that there will be far more Sunday keepers in the kingdom of God than seventh-day keepers.î This was written in Oct 2001. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I get so tired of SDA thinking they have cornered the market on Righteousness by Faith. perhaps this is the most damaging doctrine to come from them. It is better not to teach it than to misrepresent the essence of our salvation. It makes me sad. They shouldn't be allowed to teach it if they can't understand it! | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Pheeki, 2 verses that came to mind when you talk about damaging doctrine are these. First i would like to share how these verses came to me and then also I would remind you that I am not an Adventist only know about this thru my son-in-laws involvement 4 1/4 years ago. Some 20 years ago, probably, a young man in our church was duped into the Moonies and his parents had him abducted from their cluthces and deprogramed. It turned out well and later he would come and talk with our congregation about cults. His mother was also very active in information on cult practices. The verses that he told us could be used to decipher a cult were these 2 Peter1:1 which is a long verse and I will take part of it and that is; even denying and disowning the Master who bought them ,be sure and read it for yourself, and 1 John 2:22 Who us a liar as he who denies that Jesus Christ is the Christ, the Messaih? He is antichrist, (the antagonist of Christ), who habitually denies and refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son. Now when I saw these verses I thought OK now I'll know for sure who is and who isn't if they deny Christ then that makes them a cult and antichrist. It's not quite that easy because I have come to believe and know that the devil is very cunning and he himself will set himself up to look like he is God himself trying to confuse you. But when you look at the fact SDA does not want to acknowledge that it is Jesus and Jesus alone that saves us, then I think you have what is talked of in these verses albeit very subtle the way they trick a person into believing they are trying to say the same thing you are but it comes off so differently and for those of us who know Jesus Christ He protects us from that subtlety. Praise God for His mighty power. Carol | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Pheeki, I have Morris Venden to thank for the genesis of my journey out of Adventism. I was leading a small group study and we were using the book, "95 Theses of Righteousness by Faith--Apologies to Martin Luther." It was there that I began to understand the concept of my sinfulness compared to God's righteousness. I must admit that up until that time, I equated righteousness with behavior (mine). As such, I was on the proverbial treadmill. Always running, but never making any progress. Through that study, I began to understand that righteousness has everything to do with God's behavior, and nothing to do with mine. What a relief! May I even be so bold as to say that if my behavior doesn't get one iota better than it is today (sinful), my salvation is still secure. I have not evaluated his theology enough to answer your question as to why he has not been disfellowshipped, but I will say that he has come under attack by many from the more conservative ranks. Look at this criticism I found on another site: But the Bible teaches, "The soul that sinneth, it shall ' die." [Ezekiel 18:20] While Morris Venden is teaching that the soul will be saved in sin. Every false platform says: "You can be saved in sin." Ask any teacher of a new doctrine: "Are you still in Christ while sinning?" If he says "Yes," then he is on the wrong platform. And Venden is on this wrong platform! Venden's accuser is correct when he quotes Ezekiel 18:20, which says the soul that sinneth shall die. However, he is using typical Adventist speculative theology when he draws the conclusion then that "the soul that is saved doesn't sin. What he is really teaching is perfectionism. There is NOWHERE in scripture that you will find support for that. In Acts 2:21, Peter plainly counters that supposition by saying :...whosoever calls on the Lord shall be Saved." During my last year in Adventism, I was teaching the SS lesson on a regular basis. Every opportunity I got, I would bring the subject back to God's wonderful grace. The results were sad, but predictable. The very foundation of Christianity--the one thing on which we should all be able to find common ground proved to be the most misunderstood topic and most contentious (at all levels of the organization). It was this realization that led me to leave the Church. If the church could not even answer the most basic of questions (how is one saved), with any degree of clarity, I had to question in my own mind its reason for existence (beyond buildings and programs), and whether it was something that I wanted to be a part of. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Thank-you for your response. I think you are right about that, ...2 Timothy 3 says: 1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS BUT DENYING IT'S POWER! I just hope their folly is clear sooner than later!!! |
