| Author | Message | ||
| Darrell |
Lynn, now I think I understand your post. I left out "also" or "even" because in the NIV Mat 12:8 and Luke 6:5 leave it out. But the NIV does include the word "even" in Mark 2:28. I attach no significance to the word being either present or absent. I asked the question in my original post because I have heard the argument that Jesus would not have bothered claiming Lordship over the Sabbath if He planned to do away with it. Ernie and all, May I pose another question: What is the law that is written on our hearts in the New Covenant (Jer 31, Heb 8 and 10)? I don't have much time to get into it right now, but I consider what Jesus said in Mat 5:17-48 to be significant. | ||
| Bruce H |
LAW - TORAH - NOMOS What do the writers of the Bible mean when they say the word Law (Greek = Nomos. Hebrew = Torah) MATT 5;17-18 17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the LAW or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the LAW till all is fulfilled. Adventist will tell you that the word Law here means the Ten commandments. However they change the meaning of the word to fit there beliefs as you go through the Bible, For instance Rom 10:4. Rom. 10: 4 For Christ is the end of the LAW for righteousness to everyone who believes. Here they say it means the ceremonial LAW. Well what does the word LAW mean. In the Septuagent (Which is the oldest Greek version of the old Testament) the word LAW or Greek word Nomos is used for the Hebrew word Torah which is also translated into English as Law. So the Greek word law (Nomos) is the same as the Hebrew word Law (Torah). The Torah is the first five books of the bible and it includes 613 Commandments, these are referred to as the Book of the Law. 1. Genesis has 3 commandments. 2. Exodus has 111 commandments. 3. Leviticus has 247 commandments. 4. Numbers has 52 commandments. 5. Deuteronomy has 200 Commandments. This is a total of 613 commandments. The Torah also includes the Ten Commandments or Decologue (Example A) which is a subset of the Book of the law (Whole Law). Example A -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------- Ten Commandments-----Book of law (13 Commandments) #1 No other Gods------- #26 No other Gods #2 No carved image------#27 No carved image Not bow down -----------#28 Not bow down Not serve---------------#29 Not serve #3 Name of the Lord in vain----#30 Name of the Lord in vain #4 Sabbath keep Holy -------#31 Sabbath keep Holy Do no work------------------#32 Do no work #5 Honor your father and mother----#33 Honor your father and mother #6 Shall not murder---------#34 Shall not murder #7 Shall not commit adultery------- #35 Shall not commit adultery #8 Shall not steal----------#36 Shall not steal #9 No false witness---------#37 No false witness #10 No coveting-------------#38 No coveting So the Ten Commandment1s which are a subset of the Book of the Law went inside the Ark of the Covenant, while the Book of the Law (Torah or first five books of the law) was put in the side of the Ark of the Covenant. What did Jesus and the Apostles mean by the word law. I have found out that the best way to understand what a word in the Bible means is to go through the whole Bible and see how it is used and then you will find out what it means, and since Jesus said it many times, let us just look at the word as he used it, and then the apostles. JESUS 1. MATT 12:5 5 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? Here Jesus uses the word Law to refer to a ceremonial law in the book of numbers and moral or ceremonial law the 4th Commandment of the Decologue. NUMBERS 28:9,10. = COMMANDMENT 402 in book of the law. EXODUS 20;8 = COMMANDMENT #4 in the Ten Commandments or Decologue. 2. MATT 22:36-38 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him," `You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Here Jesus uses the word law to refer to a moral law found in the book of Deuteronomy and Leviticus. DEUTERONOMY 6:5. = COMMANDMENT 418 in book of the law. LEVITICUS 19:18 = COMMANDMENT 243 in book of the Law. (NOTICE THAT THE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENT ARE IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW AND NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENT1S OR DECOLOGUE.) 3. LUKE 2:22 22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord Here Jesus uses the word law to refer to a Health or Ceremonial law found in the book of Leviticus. LEVITICUS 12:2-8. = COMMANDMENT 166 in the book of the law. 4. JOHN 7:19 19 "Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?" Here Jesus uses the word law to refer to the Ten Commandments or a Moral law found in the book of Exodus. EXODUS 20:13. = COMMANDMENT #6 IN THE DECALOGUE OR TEN COMMANDMENTS. THIS IS ALSO COMMANDMENT # 34 In the book of the law. 5. JOHN 7:23 23 "If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? Here Jesus uses the word law to refer to both the Sabbath or Ten Commandments or moral law or ceremonial and the ceremonial law of circumcision in the book of Genesis and Exodus. GENESIS 17:10. = COMMANDMENT 2 in the book of the law. EXODUS 20:8-11. = COMMANDMENT Number 4 in the TEN COMMANDMENTS. THIS IS ALSO COMMANDMENT #32 in the book of the law. 6. JOHN 8:5 4 they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" Here Jesus uses the word law to refer to both the Moral law or ceremonial law of the Ten Commandments and the civil law in the book of Exodus and Leviticus. LEVITICUS 20:10. = COMMANDMENT #260 in the Book of the law. EXODUS 20:14. = COMMANDMENT number 7 in the TEN COMMANDMENTS. THIS IS ALSO COMMANDMENT #35 in the book of the law. 7. JOHN 8:17 17 "It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. Here Jesus uses the word law to refer civil law in the book of Deuteronomy. DEUTERONOMY 19:15. = COMMANDMENT # 523 in the book of the law. 8. I COR 9:9 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? Here the Apostle uses the word law to refer to a civil law in the book of Deuteronomy DEUTERONOMY 25:4. = COMMANDMENT # 596 in the book of the law. 9. GAL 3:17 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." The Apostle uses this word law to refer to a curse. This is a curse not a Commandment. DEUTERONOMY 27:26. = CURSE NOT COMMANDMENT. If you do not obey all in the Book of the Law. 10. HEB 7:5 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; Here the Apostle uses the word law to refer to the ceremonial law in the book of Numbers. NUMBERS 18:21-26. = COMMANDMENT # 396 in the book of the law. 11. James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. Whole Law refers to Book of the Law. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ----------------- So the Word law as used by Jesus and the Apostles is this. CEREMONIAL LAW - Example# 1,3,5,10. MORAL LAW - Example# 2,4,5,6. CIVIL LAW - Example #6,7,8. HEALTH LAW - Example # 3. It includes all five books of the Torah. GENESIS example # 5. EXODUS example #4,6. LEVITICUS example #2,3,6. NUMBERS example # 1,10. DEUTERONOMY example # 2,7,8,9. or the whole Torah or Book of the Law. So the word Law as used by Jesus and the Apostles mean1s the ceremonial, moral, civil and health law, that are included in the Book of the Law in GENESIS, EXODUS, LEVITICUS, NUMBERS, DEUTERONOMY. It includes the 613 commandments in the Book of the Law and the Ten Commandments. So the word Law according to Jesus and the Apostles means the whole law. MATT 5;17-18 17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the LAW or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the LAW till all is fulfilled. So not one jot or one tittle or the whole Book of the Law was fulfilled in Christ or it still binding. In a nut shell it includes the whole OLD COVENANT Law given at mount Sinai (Exodus 4:9-13). So the word ALL (till all be fulfilled) means the whole law Just as James and Paul says (James 2:10 and Gal 5:3) . Amen!!! | ||
| Bruce H |
Let me add a couple of Laws that I found in the Book of the Law. Commandment Number 454 and 455 (Deut 12:32) 32 "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. Here God is telling the people of Isreal to do all that is commanded them and commandment 454 says not to add to it, and commandment 455 says not to take away from the law. Know who does that? B | ||
| Lynn W |
Darrell, The whole point of what Jesus said is that the Sabbath is subject to Him, not the other way around as the Pharisees would have it. Do you keep the Passover as well? Jesus kept it. | ||
| Colleentinker |
I have to admit that my understanding of the Sabbath emerged gradually over a period of a couple of years or so. The more fully I began to live in grace and in my new-found relationship with Jesus, the more clear Sabbath became to me. I also see the Sabbath pointing both backward to creation and to freedom from Egypt and forward to the final rescue of the second coming. That's one of the things that makes it such a powerful symbol. The significance I see in this backward-forward pointing symbol is that it underscores the presence of Jesus from the first appearance of life to the final establishment of the new heaven and earth. The Israelites needed a tangible symbol of their relationship with Goda sign of their covenant with Him, and a reminder that life and rest and freedom always come from Him. Now, in the New Covenant, we no longer need the symbolic day which represented the coming Christ any more than we need the symbolic manna. We have the real thing: the actual living, risen Christ who puts his living Spirit in our spirits. And as the living Christ in us, Jesus is our Sabbath. He intersects our lives and connects us to the eternal story of His creation of life; of His rescue of His people from slavery; of His rescue of us from the slavery of sin; of His final transformation of our flesh into resurrection bodies. In the Old Covenant when people only had symbols to help them anticipate the Messiah, a day of rememberance, holiness, and anticipation was the most powerful way to live in His rest before the actual redemption was accomplished. Now that we are restored to oneness with God, the day becomes a moot point. We are living in the Day of salvation and Sabbath rest. We are literally connected to the God of creation, freedom, and redemption. We don't just remember creation and Egypt and anticipate redemption; those things actually are part of our story now. As His sons and daughters, redeemed from death and one with Him, we were with Him at creation and in the deliverance from slavery in the same way Levi was in the body of his ancestor Abraham when he paid tithe to Melchizidek (see Hebrews 7:9-10). I agree that the Sabbath is a powerful symbol; there's a reason Adventists have such a hard time dealing with it. I also think that Satan wants us deflected away from Jesus, and he has made it difficult for us to see that we are focusing on a shadow of Christ when we hold onto a literal day. I understand that people can honor Sabbath and also understand their rest in Christ. From experience, though, I also know that there's a spiritual freedom that comes from letting go of the "shadow" and walking only in the light of the "real" Sabbath that I could not possibly have understood or anticipated. I praise God for freedom and truth and deliverance! I pray for all of us on this website! Colleen | ||
| Lydell |
>I also know that there's a spiritual freedom that comes from letting go of the "shadow" and walking only in the light of the "real" Sabbath that I could not possibly have understood or anticipated. A resounding amen! I think it is because now we understand that we literally walk in that sabbath rest every moment of every day. | ||
| Lydell |
I believe the most powerful point about the law that the Lord has shown me was in Gal. 3:24. The Greek word "paidagogos" in this verse has been translated as "tutor" or "schoolmaster" in most Bibles. But those aren't quite accurate. The paidagogs was the "boy-leader". This was a trusted household slave to whom the father entrusted the upbringing of his son. He went with the boy wherever he went, providing guidance and protection. He had constant oversight of him and authority to administer discipline as required. He was not the schoolmaster, but instead took the son to the teacher. (As the law teaches us that we are helpless and hopeless without Christ, the true teacher.) His job was ended when the child reached manhood. Understanding that certainly makes chapter 4 much more clear when it speaks of those who are in Christ no longer needing to be under guardians. And that we are no longer in slavery, but are now sons. And that certainly makes chapter 5 easier to understand in its telling us that we "are not under law." |
