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Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 1 » THINK BILLY GRAHAM SECRETLY KEEPS THE SABBATH? READ THIS » Archive through February 21, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to a recent post above your own daughter ran out in the cold to escape you talking about the Gosple and about Jesus. And, you get it from your husband, too. Can I be so bold as to ask you how old you are? I believe any of us on this forum have had similiar experiences dealing with our SDA kin. My dear mom now finds errands for me to do on Sunday mornings. Things that easilly could be put off until later in the day or even on a later date. She honestly believes it is wrong to worship on Sunday. But, I told her she watches FFT on Sunday and she watches The Crystal Conthedral on Sunday and at campmeeting she goes to church on Sunday and at Monterey Bay Academy us kids were made to go to church on Sunday, so I wanted to know how come then it is so wrong fo me to attend the Lutheran church on Sunday. Let me tell you-I will never say those thoughts again to any of my SDA kin! Whoa, was I ever let know how stupid I can be. Apparently there is a big difference between watching a preacher on T.V. on Sunday or going to a SDA service on Sunday then there is with worshipping with "Sunday-keepers". See, the SDA's know the truth about this. The Sunday-keepers don't know the truth about this. So, when Sabbath-keepes worship on Sunday it is o.k. because they are not "keeping" Sunday, they are JUST worshipping. But, when Sunday-keepers worship on Sunday they are breaking the 4th commandment, as well as paying homage to the pope. It's very convoluted! And, just plain goofy. Believe me, I extend my deepest prayers for you in dealing with your kin.
Jerry (Jerry)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pheeki,

Jesus was quoting Psalms 22.

This Psalm starts out with hopelessness but ends in faith and the promise of the Christ. Jesus was not alone on the cross, He was doing His fatherís will. The speaking verse was to signify fulfillment of the prophecy. It was to remind us all of the hopelessness of mankind, which Jesus dissolved on that very day.

This, again, is an example of taking a verse out of context. In this case, the context is the ENTIRE BIBLE. Ask your husband to read Psalms 22.
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, the post above was from a website, I cut and pasted it because I thought it had an intriguing idea. I haven't mastered the codes or I would have put my comments in red so you could tell the difference between me and the story. sorry.

But...unfortunately I am facing similar problems. My 13 year old daughter (I am 37) screamed at me for the first time in her life because I was trying to show her the text where Jesus declared all foods clean, she said "I don't want to hear it, I am an Adventist and I like egw and I don't want to hear anything from the Bible." To me that was so sad that she thought ellen was more important than the Bible.
She has come around a little and will listen to me once in a while. I am hoping actions speak louder than words and she will see Jesus through me. Since that time, she has started eating meat, pepperoni, brats, etc. Perhaps something sunk in? My husband is really the one who has had a major problem with me. I think he thinks he set out to marry a dyed in the wool, never leave the faith, SDA but now is stuck with a heretic. I told him last night that the scriptures say that the body of Christ should not be divided. He agreed with me. I think denominations are not what Christ had in mind. The fact that he agreed is a very good sign.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pheeki, I'll keep praying for you and for your husband.

One other point about Jesus being alone on the cross: that was not an "example" for us. That was the separation of the second death WHICH HIS DEATH INSURED WE WILL NEVER EXPERIENCE if we accept his sacrifice. We ARE separated from him when we are born. Our spirits are lost and not alive. The fact that Jesus experienced that separation is the very reason we can know we will never be without a mediator. The Holy Spirit indwells us, and he will not un-indwell us when tibulations come. We are now born again, new creatures, and the Holy Spirit will not leave us. Jesus' separation from the Father was his greatest suffering. It was his bearing the spiritual death of the world. It has guaranteed our eternal connectedness, our eternal life!

Colleen
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! A 13 year old saying those things. She must get a lot of egw at school. I think it's tragic that a 13 year old child would even think like that. My oldest son and my mother offered to split the cost of tuition so one of my younger children could attend the local SDA school. I turned them down. I still believe I made the right decision. I know your situtation is different because your husband is so extremely SDA. I will keep your family in my prayers. Please, do the same for mine. Thanks.
Thomas1 (Thomas1)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis,

funny you should mention the astronauts. A national Jew was just sent into space. Our local coverge here in Florida covers such things in greter detail. He describes himself as a "non-believer" yet will be "keeping Sabbath" in space because it is a heritage issue for the nation of Isreal. The Rabbi's and he decided to keep it by "Houston" time, as that is where NASA space command is located.

On two issues, it sure shows the strangeness that legalism can produce!

So glad I'm

In his Grace!

<><
Thomas
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That does not make any sense at all. Deciding to keep the Sabbath by the time of the command centers location is kooky. If they did it according to the O.T. they would do it from sunset to sunset every seventh day. And, if they are in an orbit where there is no day or night then they wouldn't have a sunset to sunset time of Sabbath obserence. Even if the sunset to sunset of every seventh day only lasted, say, 10 minutes, well, then that would be their Sabbath time as that would be the seventh day. Another question, how does one KEEP the Sabbath crammed tight in a spaceship? I guess pass on the ham sandwich at lunchtime? LOL
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pheeki,

From my own study of Daniel and Revelation I don't see how SDA's get any of that stuff they believe in! It is all Ellen and no bible. All you have to do is turn on the news to see the events don't line up with their beliefs. How long is it gonna take before they get it? We could be in the middle of a nuclear was with 3 people left on the planet and they'd still be looking for a Sunday law! 1st and 2nd John refute the Cathlic church in the Anti-Christ teaching, points more to the Muslims if you ask me. Consider praying about it and reading them yourself without any instruction besides the Holy Spirit and see what you find. Blessings to you. By the way, other churches do have these conferences but they are night and day from the Revelation Seminars.
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm currently taking a class on Revelations. It is very interesting. It is given my a retired Lutheran minister. We use the textbook that the seminary students at the Lutheran seminay in Minesota use. It's in a workbook form. For the first time the book of Reveltions makes sense to me. I told that to my mother. She was upset that I am gaining understanding from a Lutheran textbook and I never could "get it" from the SDA presentation on Revelations. I have a young cousin who just got his preaching degree from Andrews two years ago. So often I get almost up the nerve to ask him if he truly understands the SDA doctrines on the IJ, the impending Sunday laws and the oher "unique doctrines" of th SDA church but then I chicken out. I see and visit with him often and anything conernng religion has never come up in a coversation between us. It may be for the best that the relationship stays that way because as it is we just adore and love each other.
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan 2 Isn't it sad that your relationship is so wonderful as it is, but I am sure it could be utopia if you could share your believe in Jesus Christ. I told my son-in-law that if he and my daughter could be one in Christ he would know joy that he had never imagined but he wants to cling to his other "women" and thus oneness in Christ is non-existent.
In His time we will be one, Carol
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really don't feel ready for Daniel and Revelation. Perhaps because most of my life that has been my religious focus thanks to the sDA. I know it says those who read it will be blessed (somewhere doesn't it say that?) but maybe in a few months. I am still reveling in the freedom I feel from coming out of bondage and trying to reconcile my daily life to it.

I will read 1st and 2nd John however.
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry! How could I have missed your post! I have just read Psalm 22 and am amazed! I can't believe it is there. I took the words to be the very thoughts of Christ while hanging on the cross. Take that EGW! I wish I could show her. How different her account of his thoughts. I can't believe he was quoting scripture showing that he fulfilled it! Amazing, how did you come by this knowledge?

Praise God, Jerry! Thank-you.
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was referring to
verse 8 through 18 being Christs thoughts. I always thought those were David's thoughts and words but now I see he was a prophet. I am so glad you showed me that.
Jerry (Jerry)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Pheeki. To God be the Glory, indeed!

It just popped into my head for me to remember what my father, a non-SDA minister, taught me in his sermons.

I remembered that Jesus quoted several scriptures in his ìlast words.î

Then I looked up the words Jesus spoke on a Bible search site.

Boom! There it was.

However, I think I can agree with what Colleen said about Jesus experiencing separation from God.

I would attribute it more to the entire time He had human form than only to the day of crucifixion. On the other hand, I am open to debate on that.

I believe that the words of anguish, ìWhy hast thou forsaken me,î have a much deeper meaning than their surface meaning. While Jesus undoubtedly knew that He was doing His Fatherís will, the pain He was feeling was on more levels than we could imagine. If we are to believe the Gospel message (which I definitely do) Jesus experienced pain and death for all of us for all time. That is a LOT of death and pain.

Yet, He never stopped demonstrating his purpose, even in that horrible time. Everything He did and said was a fulfillment of the shadows (the law and the prophets) pointing to Him.

(end of sermon)

Jerry
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again for posting it. I am going to show this to my husband at first opportunity. If you think of anything else your Dad had in his sermons-please post.
How did you become an SDA if your dad was a non-SDA preacher?
Jerry (Jerry)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was never an SDA. My wife of almost five years is one from birth.

When we married, she was staying away from the church. Now, she is back to the ìtruth,î in full force.

Little did I realize . . .
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry, thanks for your post. It's only been within the past three years that I've begun to realize that Jesus fulfilled A LOT of passages in the Psalms. I had no idea as an Adventist that many of David's words were Messianic prophecies. In fact, I suspect that many "formers" have a slow time beginning to see how much David foreshadowed Jesus, both in his life and in his psalms. I think most Adventists are taught that the Psalms are poetry (which they are), but they are not taught that book's prophetic or theological significance.

I know that in some way which is hard to explain, I used to think of the book as sort-of "lightweight". It was good for comfort and inspiriation, but it wasn't really where to find basic theology or instruction. Maybe I'm unique in this misperception of the Psalms! It's been amazing to me to "discover" its significance!

Michael Card (the songwriter/musician) wrote a little book a couple of years ago called "A Violent Grace". In it he examines the crucifixion and the passion week in detail. The first chapter is an amazing study on the OT prophecies, primarily from Psalms and Isaiah, that Jesus fulfilled. The book is wonderful.

Colleen
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love Michael Card and I think you are right about Psalms. No one has ever told me that Psalms was anything but poetry. I don't think Ellen addressed it either. I was shocked. I will have to study it!
Madelia (Madelia)
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am new to the form. I hope I'm adding this in the right place. I am still seeing red from a conversation I had with a mom at my daughter's school this morning. A little background: I joined the SDA church 9 years ago as my husband-to-be was Adventist and of course in order to get married I had to come into the church. Anyway, my daughter is now in an Adventist school. There is only one child at the school who is not Adventist. One of the Adventist moms said this morning that her son has been invited to this child's house. Of course she feels she and her husband need to check it out first (guess their son might get contaminated or something!). This mom said "They're not a Christian family." I said "they're not?" She said "they're not Adventist. You don't know what kind of food they might serve in their home." I shouldn't be surprised by this conversation. Fortunately something distracted us then or I would have said somethings I would have regretted! So, if you're not Adventist and eat pork, you're not Christian
Jerry (Jerry)
Posted on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Madelia.

You probably are in the right place.

Just so it is very clear:
Many, if not most, of the people here are former Adventists, or, like me, have never been an Adventist while having a close relative involved in the church (e.g. my wife).

I sense you understand that the statement made to you about ì. . . not Adventist and eat pork [means] not Christianî is of a very common type. It is a very unfortunate statement, as far as I see it. I do not believe I, or anyone else, should make that sort of statement to someone else.

Most of us here believe that one person is not the best judge of anotherís Christianity. We tend to suggest that you should measure your own status against the Bible. Of course, we each have our understanding about what the Bible says, but, on the whole I think it is fair to say the following:

ìChristianityî is defined, most importantly, by faith and belief in Jesus as our personal Savior.

There is much more to it than that. However, I certainly understand and sympathize with your reaction.

Jerry

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