| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Again, thanks, Bruce. I always learn from your Spirit-directed Bible studies. Concerning this last one, I have a question. You have referred a number of times to Luke 17:20,21, "The kingdom of God [or heaven] is within you." In the Greek the word "you" is plural, not singular. Unlike English, which does not have a way of distinguishing the singular pronoun "you" from the plural pronoun "you," Greek does. And, indeed, Jesus was not addressing just one individual, but a group. Though they were a group of Pharisees, you are correct in applying it to Christ's true disciples rather than to the legalistic Pharisees, and the phrase "within you" is to be taken in a general sense rather than as referrring to the unbelieving Pharisees personally. The kingdom certainly was not within them. So my question for you is this: Does Jesus here mean that the kingdom exists: (1) Within one's individual heart? (2) Within the group? Here it could be translated, "because the kingdom of God is among you [plural]" (3) Both? I think (3) both. What do you think? --Jude | ||
| BRUCE H |
I would agree with you Jude. The Bible says that He is in us and we in Him, and it says we are all the body of Christ. So That make you my Brother. Bruce H | ||
| Bruce H |
Know we see the privileges and security that the Ecclesia have. In order to understand the Rapture let us look at a Promise to the Church. Those who teach the Rapture say there are two comings of our Lord Jesus Christ. The first for the Body of Christ or the Church , this is the Rapture. Then again after a period of time in which God test those who dwell on the earth. It is after this period of time that Christ will come with all the Church or the Kingdom of Heaven to come and dwell with those who are alive and set up his kingdom and rule on the throne of David. He will dwell with the Remnant of Israel that will remain. By the way you do not have to believe in the Rapture in order to be Raptured but if you are Born Again or the Holy Spirit is in you, you will be raptured. Rev 3:10 10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. So there is a promise to the Church that they will be kept from the Hour of Trial which will come upon the whole world. Notice that the Test is for those who are still dwelling on the earth. It is a period of time called The Day of the Lord. Here are some of the Day of the Lord texts. Day of the Lord, Day of vengeance of our lord, Day of Wrath, Time of Jacobs trouble. (Matt 24:43-44, Luke 12:39-40, 2 Pet 3:10, Rev 3:3 16:15. Isa 13:9-13, Amos 5:18-20, Zeph 1:14-18, Joel 2:1-3,10,11,15,16, Mal 41-5. Let us look at some Bible texts. 1Thes 1:10 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. So this text implies that he will deliver us from the Wrath that is to come? Is this Gods wrath? 1 Thes 3:13 13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints. This text states that when Jesus comes he will come with ALL HIS SAINTS. Well if He is coming with his saints he must have come previously. 1 Thes 4:13-18 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. Here verse 14 States he will BRING WITH HIM those who sleep in Jesus. Well the saints in 1 Thes 3:13 must also be those who sleep in Jesus. Who else could it be? In verse 15 he says that those who are alive will not go before those who sleep. Could it be that it is because they are already there. Verse 16 The dead in Christ will rise first. Could this be the bodies of the of those who sleep in Christ? verse 17 So we who are alive, (with our bodies) will be caught up (Raptured?) with the Bodies of those who sleep in Christ, and thus shall always be with the Lord. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------- Rev 6:9-10 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Could these souls be those who sleep in Christ before their bodies are raptured? -------------------------------------------------- ---------------- 1Thes 5:1-5 1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. So in verse 2, here is that term again, Day of the Lord. Notice it will come like a thief in the night. Well if we are to go through the tribulation what kind of a surprise would that be. Verse 3, Then sudden destruction comes upon them. This is the Day of the Lord. 1thes 5:9 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, God has not appointed us for the Day of Wrath? 2 Thes 1:7-10 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thes 2:1 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, This is the Rapture. 2 Thes 2:2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Lord had come. They were upset due to the Day of the Lord having already begun? why were they upset? Missed the rapture or Paul taught them falsely? If they were post-trib they wouldn1t have been upset! The Saints in Thessalonia, because they were being persecuted and because of some false letter that was supposed to be from Paul, They thought that they had missed the Rapture and that The Day of the Lord was upon them (AS THOUGH THE DAY OF THE LORD HAD COME), They felt they were taking part in God1s wrath (Ps 2:9, rev 2:27 Isa 11:1-9, 10-12, Zeph 3:14-20. Some Bible versions say DAY OF CHRIST. But if you go to the Greek you will find Day of the Lord as the correct interpretation. 2 Thes 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, So Paul is saying that the Time of trouble (Day of the Lord) where man will be tested will not come unless 1. falling away comes first 2. man of sin is revealed. Other names for Antichrist= Son of perdition, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin, Lawless one, there are 40 plus names for him. 2 Thes 2: 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. So the Antichrist will sit in the TEMPLE OF GOD, showing himself as God. Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14, Dan 9:27. Paul uses a Greek word that can only mean the Jewish temple. 2 Thes 2:5,6 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. Something is restraining so that the son of perdition cannot be revealed. Notice that the Antichrist has his own time, just like Jesus had his time (Gal 4:4). 2 Thes 2: 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. So Jesus has a mystery that is revealed (Rom 11:25, 16:26, 1Cor 2:6-12, Eph 1:9, 3:3-5, Col 1:25-27). and the Abomination has a mystery that is already at work but is now restrained. Only God restrained sin. (Gen 6:3) And the Lord said My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh. (Job 1 and 2 ) It was God1s hedge that restrained Satan. (Isa 59:19) The Spirit of the LORD will restrain him. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit assumed a special relationship to the Church as its indweller: John 14:16-17, 1Cor 3:16, 6:19, etc. He came to abide with the Church FOREVER. After completion of His work in the Church, He will resume the relationship to mankind that He had before Pentecost. IT IS WHEN THE RESTRAINER OR HOLY SPIRIT IS REMOVED THAT THE RAPTURE HAPPENS. SINCE GOD SAY'S HE INDWELLS US FOREVER IF HE GOES WE HAVE TO GO WITH HIM. 2 Thes 2: 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The Lord after the period of time that the Lawless one has will come and destroy him. 2 Thes 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, Satan has power, signs and wonders. Jesus also has power, signs and wonders Acts 2:22 and so does the apostolic Church (Heb 2:4) I will give more texts latter. Do not take my word for anything remember Act 17:11. Bruce H | ||
| Lori |
Thanks so much Bruce for pulling together all these scriptures concerning the rapture!! I can read something and still do not notice "exactly" what the wording "actually" says until someone brings a phrase within the scripture to my attention. I've been praying for God to guide me to the truth about some of the end time events. I desperately want to understand!!! The Adventist beliefs about end times were so confusing to me that I have avoided trying to relearn that, until now. I feel grounded enough in the gospel to move on a bit. I have discovered that all of scripture (in truth) has a common thread that it never had in my Adventist beliefs. In adventism, everything meant something different, it was all disconnected. But in reality, all the stories and all of Jesus writing have a common theme. They are all connected in a way. It's simple..........simple enough for a child to understand!!! And, believe me, after being raised an Adventist and finally seeing the error, I never take anyones word for what scripture says!!! If I can't read it and have the Holy Spirit convince me of the truth in it, I don't believe it. I've experienced the wonderful feeling of knowing truth and I don't ever want to be anywhere else. I have pondered the Why me? Why did my family have to be adventist? But God has plan! And I realize that it was in His plan for me and all of you to be knowledge about SDA's. Maybe not for the same reasons, but it was His plan. My prayer for all of you and for me is that we will complete what he has planned for us. Happy New Year | ||
| Timo K. |
Bruce, I enjoy reading your writings in general and specially on "rapture". Your writings give me a "platform" from which I can do my own study. So I hope you keep on writing about the subject. All my believes ought to be challenged with the Bible, and then I should keep only those believes that stand the test of the Word of God. timo | ||
| Bruce H |
Daniel1s 70 Weeks Understanding Isreal's role in the future is to Understand the Daniel 70 wk prophecy Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 9:24 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Notice that the prophecy is for the Jews and not the Church or the Gentile world (upon thy people and upon thy holy city), and the holy city. And it is to 1. finish the transgression. 2. to make an end of sins. 3. to make reconciliation for iniquity. 4. to bring in everlasting righteousness. 5. to seal up the vision and prophecy. 6. and to anoint the most (godesh gadashim, the Holy of Holy1s) Holy. These are not ALL fulfilled in the last 2000 yrs , therefore, they are not contiguous! Dan 9:25 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (King) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Messiah the Prince = Meshiach Nagid, which means King, or messiah the King, this word nagid is first used of King Saul. shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: this is 7wks + 20wks+20wks+20wks (60wks) +2wks, or 7+62 wks, or 69 wks of years. from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the King. 1. Cyrus, 537 BC, Ezra 1:2-4. 2. Darius, Ezra 6:1-5,8,12. 3. Artaxerxes, 458 BC. Ezra 7:11-26. 4. Artaxerxes, 445 BC. NEH 2:5-8,17,18. (1), (2), and (3): were to build the temple. Only the last one, (4), was to rebuild the city, the walls, etc. Note: rehob, 3street2, haruts, moat, fortification. 69 times 7 times 360 ( Daniel used 360 day years) = 173,880 days So from March 14, 445 BC, to April 6, 32 AD. Neh 2:5-8,17,18. Artaxerxes, 445 BC - 32 AD = 173,760 days March 14 - April 6 = 24 days Leap Years = 116 days ------------- 173,880 days So the exact Day the Messiah would PRESENT himself was prophesied. this takes care of the 69 wks of years. THE TRIUMPHAL ENTRY All 4 Gospels (Matt 21:1-9, Mk 11:1-10, Luke 19:29-39, John 12:12-16. Nisan 10: "take to everyone a lamb" Jesus deliberatley arranges to fulfill Zech 9:9. This is the only day He allows them to proclaim him King (Luke 19:38). The Pharisees assure our noticing the significance when they rebuke the disciples for singing the Hallel Psalms PS 118:26. This was the 10th of Nisan, prior to the passover on the 14th of Nisan, 32 AD: (Luke 3:1 Tiberius appointed, 14 AD; 15th year = 29 AD; 4th Passover, 32 AD (April 6). [Other examples of precision: Gen 8:4, Noah's new beginning: 7th month, 17th day. Exodus 12:2 Nisan becomes 1st month. Jesus resurrected on the anniversary of the "New Beginning" under Noah! Now because the Jews did not accept he put Israel on the shelf (Luke 19:42-44 National blindness on Israel until Rom 11:25 the fullness of the gentiles comes in) and put the last week of years off until after the Church, so the Mystery is revealed or the Church is now sought after. THE INTERVAL Dan 9:26 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. This verse implies the Interval (AND AFTER, the sixty-two weeks) or AFTER the 69th and before the 70th week of years. The Messiah will be killed after the 62 wks (Cut Off Gen 9:11) Karat,= execution, death penalty (Lev 7:20, Ps 37:9, Prov 2:22). Not for Himself, Nothingness, rejection, substitution And the people of the prince who is to come the prince who is to come is another name for the son of perdition, the lawless one, the antichrist. so the people of the prince who is to come were the Romans and their leader was Titus Vespasian. 38 years later (Not 3 1/2 years) in 70AD, he leveled the city to the ground, and a soldier threw a torch into the temple setting it on fire, and they had to tear the temple down block by block to get the Gold. So the antichrist will come from a European (Roman) background. So in this interval we have the Messiah killed and the temple torn down, no 70th wk yet. An interval, or gap, clearly required by verse 26, events described are after the 69th and prior to the 70th week (Luke 19:42, until Rom 11:25), Messiah cut off, karat ,executed, and the sanctuary destroyed, etc. 1900 years have transpired so far. This interval is the period of the Church, an era kept secret in OT: Matt 13:34,35; Eph 3:5,9. Israel is never used of the Church (73 times), Gal 6:16 misunderstood, by ignoring the Kai in the Greek which clearly distinguishes the Two groups. It seems that the Lord deal with Israel and the Church mutually exclusively. Dan 9:27 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." THEN, this starts the 70th wk of years. Notice that it say that in the middle of the week, This is the 70th wk, and the Bible breaks it up into two 3 and 1/2 periods. 1. Time, time, the dividing of time Dan 7:25; 4:16, 23, 25. {times = a dual, later lost in aramaic} 2. 3 1/2 years --------Dan 12:7 3. 42 months --------Rev 11:2; 13:5 4. 1260 days -------- Rev 11:3; Dan 12:6 5. 1/2 week --------- Dan 9:27 (remember 360 day years with 12, 30 day months, so 42 months = 1260 days) Then he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. So this antichrist will confirm a covenant with the many, "the many" is an idiom for Israel. This is the "Covenant with Hell", Isa 28:15; Zech 11:15-17, etc. So the last 7 years will be initiated with a 7 year treaty or covenant with Israel. this is when the antichrist will be revealed and the Church will no longer be on the earth do to the Rapture. In the middle of this 7 year covenant or 3 1/2 yrs or 42 months or 1260 days the son of perdition will go into the most Holy Place He will stop the sacrifices and offerings that will be in place at that time and will proclaim himself to be God this is the abomination of desolations. When I was over in Israel on November of 1998 me and my wife Coleen went into the Temple institute in Israel. We were shown most of the Temple sacrificial instruments and they stated that they had 87 percent of all the materials for a new temple already made, they also have a hundred or so priest1s trained for sacrificing animals and trained in how to keep the temple ordinances. They also stated that if they wanted to they could have the temple up and running with sacrificing animals in 3 to 4 months. This new Temple will be wired with TV by the way. Let me again quote Act 17:11 you must test these with scripture. For more information check www.khouse.org or 1-800-khouse-1 B | ||
| Onesimus |
I have had to re-examine prophecy since leaving the SDA church. Actually, I ignored it for a long time--prophecy had become so repulsive. I was tired of beasts and images and little horns! But I have gotten over a lot of that and ventured into the areas Bruce as covered above. On a more visual note, I was talking with another former adventist friend and he relayed this understanding on the rapture. He said when God judged the world via the flood, he provided a way of escape thru the ark and took his people out. When God judged sin at Sodom and Gomorah, he sent angels to take his people out. Could it be that when God judges the world during the tribulation, he again will take his people out via the rapture? Revelation 3:10 says "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth." It's something to ponder and study but never the less I remain in Christ.--Onesimus |
