| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
jtree, Thanks for the wealth of additional information on the Sabbath in the Old Testament. I believe the more we learn about the OT Sabbath, the better will be our understanding of it in the New Testament. It has dawned on me recently that when Paul brought the gospel to the Jews he "played with only one string on his violin": proving that Jesus was the Christ FROM THE OT SCRIPTURES (there being no NT scriptures at the time). But when he brought the gospel to the vast masses of gentiles, he made little or no attempt to do that, for they were generally ignorant of the Jewish scriptures. Instead he just preached "Christ crucified" with demonstrations of power. For example, he told the Greek Corinthians, "When I came to you, bretheren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling. And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God." 1 Corinthians 2:1-5, NAS. God bless you, jtree, Jude | ||
| Lori |
I want to share with you all something that happened to me yesterday. I was visiting with a Adventist friend, she kept bringing up the subject of religion/doctrines. I kept trying to avoid them, I'd simply answer her questions desperately trying to avoid anything similiar to an argument and then moving on to something else, but she just kept going back to wanting to know more about me leaving the church. This is one of the people that haven't given me the silent treatment and has we had already brooched the subject months ago, I didn't really see what was to be gained by going over it again. But God had a plan: I kept trying to explain the fulfillment of the law, that we were not under the old covenant, I told her where it stated that in scripture (she didn't want me to 'show' her) and that since the cross we were under the laws of the spirit. (To me, that was hard to grasp and keep hold of that the laws weren't the same, right along trying to explain to someone that thinks Sabbath is pertinent to salvation.) I kept praying for God to please take over my end of the conversation and give me what to say, don't let my argumentative side take over! For some reason, she began to tell me her favorite story. And I'm sure I won't do it justice. It may be a little different than the versions you have heard because I may not remember it correctly. It was a story of the man of God and a traveler and they met as they were on their journey and they decided to walk together. It was getting dark so they looked for a place to stay for the night. A kind man offered them a bed in his home for the night, the man began to tell them of a long term dispute that his family had been having with "the other side of the family" and that just today someone that he had feuded with all his life, came to him, apologized and gave him a golden goblet that had been their great grandfathers as a token of their new friendship. The man elated, he had wanted the golden goblet that his grandfather had owned and to know the feud was over was a great relief. During the night, the man of God crept through the house and found the goblet and placed in his bag. The traveler saw him and didn't understand, but said nothing. They walked until the next evening, and found yet another place to stay with a landowner who had many pheasants who worked for him. But he was not kind to them and they suffered greatly at his hand. That evening the landowner crept into the room during the night and stole the goblet from the man of God. The traveler witnessed this and what confused him the most is that he could see that the man of God saw the landowner steal the goblet and remained still and silent the entire time. But he asked no questions. The next day the continued on until night fall, this time they found refuge for the night in a beautiful home with all the luxuries. There was a small boy in the home and he enjoyed the evening listening to the man of God relate story after story of Jesus to him. The next morning when they arose to leave the boy begged his father to allow to travel with them for a short way. His father consented. They approached a bridge and the boy eagerly ran to it to peer over at the rushing water below. The railing broke as he leaned against it and he fell onto the jagged rocks in the water. The traveler was in shock. The man of God had been near enough to have at least reached for him as he fell, but he had not moved at all. He hurried down to see if there was anything that he could do to help the boy, but he was dead. The traveler climbed back up the steep incline to find the man of God waiting there. It made him angry that he had done nothing, had not even tried! He wanted to know why??? WHY did you steal the goblet? WHY did you not stop the landowner when you saw him steal it? WHY did you allow this precious child to die, why, why? You are supposed to be a servant of God! The man of God calmly told him: The man who gave the goblet had dipped it in poison and he gave hoping the man would use the goblet and he would die. The landowner was an evil man, he dealt with the pheasant in a cruel and unjust manner. He will drink of the goblet and get his just reward and the pheasants that once served him will receive his fortunes and be free of there bondage. The child was the son of the ringleader of all the robbers in the area. That was how he had earned his wealth. As the child matured and his father became too old to continue, the business would have been passed into his hands. Their was tremendous love for God in the boys heart had he been allowed to grow he would have served his fathers wishes, not God's. By allowing him to die, he had given him eternal life. When she finished I told her that the story she just told me was a perfect example of the Old Covenant vs. the New Covenant. Under the rigid laws of the Old Covenant, the man of God could have never done those things. It would have been in direct rebellion against the laws of God. However, under the New Covenant of the spirit, the laws of love, he had been prompted by the Holy Spirit to make judgement upon the circumstances. In great love, he stole the mans goblet, in great compassion for those who served he allowed the goblet to be stolen so the wicked would received their just reward. And in great love, he allowed the child to receive the gift of eternal life. These things could not have happened under the Old Covenant only under the New. Friends, I was given the magnificient opportunity to see GOD flip the light switch on in someones mind. God used her own story!!!!! And HE gave me the ability to use it for HIS purpose!!!! I stand completely amazed!!!!!! She immediately wanted to know where I had told her before about the old covenant being fulfilled. (before when we spoke, she wasn't even interested in reading what it said ), I don't know if she will actually accept it or not, but God showed me HE is working. She did tell me that she had really been reading scripture, and she had asked her husband for a concordance for Christmas and how much it had helped in studying. I'm amazed that God can use me, in my sometimes confused state. It only goes to prove that his strength is revealed in our weakness. All the glory goes to HIM, Lori | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Lori, What a beautiful witnessing experience! Of course you grasp the spiritual reality of the New Covenant and how it has replaced the Old Covenant -- even as Abraham's free wife Sarah (bearing Isaac who was the son of promise) replaced his slave "wife" Hagar (bearing Ishmael who was not the son of promise). Galatians 4. Your spiritual perception seems to be very keen regarding these Covenants. Maybe your struggle and confusion have more to do with resisting psychological intimidation by "wolves in sheep's clothing" than with any failure to grasp the concepts. Your prayer for "God to please take over my end of the conversation and give me what to say, don't let my argumentative side take over!" was absolutely the right thing to do, since you were shifting gears to "run under the Holy Spirit's steam" rather than under your own. And your sudden realization and interpretation of the "golden goblet" story thus came from the Holy Spirit rather than from your own sometimes "argumentative" spirit. Thus your weak and faltering self-confidence in witnessing was miraculously transformed into an all-powerful "God-confidence" that enabled you to say exactly the right words at exactly the right time! Your experience reminds me of Jesus' words in Matthew 10:19-20, NIV: "But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you." Praising God in your honor, Lori, Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
What a wonderful experience, Lori! I'm glad, Jude, that you tied Matthew 10:19-20 into her experience. I used to worry about being called before enemies who wanted to kill me for my faith and being unable to defend myself properly because I hadn't memorized enough scripture. Within the past few months it has dawned on me that my old fear is obsolete because now I live by the Spirit! I do praise God for cherishing us! | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Reviews Part 1, Ch.11, ìSabbath in Crisis" by Dale Ratzlaff 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay Part One of Chapter XI -- ìSabbath in the Epistlesî -- Colossians 2:16,17 Here is that famous text: ìTherefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day ñ things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.î Bible scholars are generally professors at seminaries and universities who have Ph.D. degrees in biblical studies, who know Greek and Hebrew and sometimes Aramaic and even Sanskcrit, etc., and who are also generally learned in the history and often the archaeology of the ancient Near East. These people almost universally interpret the phrase ñ ì[1] a festival or [2] a new moon or [3] a Sabbath dayî ñ as [1] a Jewish annual Sabbath (such as the Day of Atonement for them or Christmas or Easter for us today), [2] a Jewish monthly religious celebration, and [3] the weekly Sabbath day. Such scholars go all the way back to luminaries such as Tertullian, Augustine, Luther and Calvin. And that interpretation has remained almost universally inviolate to this day. Rare exception: the consensus of SDA church scholars, as seen, for example, in the official SDA Bible Commentary. There it is interpreted as [1] a Jewish annual Sabbath (such as the Day of Atonement for them or Christmas or Easter for us today), [2] a Jewish monthly religious celebration, and [3] a Jewish annual Sabbath (such as the Day of Atonement for them or Christmas or Easter for us today). Donít laugh. Itís true; you can check it out for yourself. But more recently some SDA scholars have broken with this ridiculously redundant interpretation. Among them is, yes, none other than Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi of Andrews University, renowned world lecturer and author of the book FROM SABBATH TO SUNDAY: A HISTORICAL INVESTIGATION OF THE RISE OF SUNDAY OBSERVANCE IN EARLY CHRISTIANITY (Rome: Pontifical Gregorian University Press: 1977). This book (which I will here abbreviate as FSS) is based on his Ph.D. dissertation at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome where he graduated summa cum laude. In the ìAcknowledgmentsî of FSS he admits breaking lockstep with his church: Page 6: ìIn a few places my interpretation of certain Biblical texts (such as ... Colossians 2:14-17) ... differs somewhat from the traditional position of my Church.î Ahem! How? Here, in Bacchiocchi's own words: Page 358: ìThe Sabbath in Colossians 2:16. The sacred times prescribed by the false teachers [legalistic, 'Judiazing Christians' usually from Jerusalem] are are referred to as ëa festival or a new moon or a sabbath ñ heortas a neomania a sabbaton' (2:16). [I know enough Greek to tell you that is New Testament Greek for ìfestival or new moon or Sabbath.] The unanimous consensus of commentators is that these three words represent a logical and progressive sequence (annual, monthly and weekly) as well as an exhaustive enumeration of the sacred times.î Page 359: ìIt is therefore linguistically impossible to interpret the latter [ìsabbatonî] as a reference to the Day of Atonement or to any other ceremonial sabbaths, since these are never designated simply as ësabbatataí [plural, or, in English, ëSabbathsí].î Will he get into trouble for thus breaking lockstep? Not likely, because he sufficiently misinterprets the earlier part of Colossians 2 that this small ìheresyî is overlooked by the SDA hierarchy who know that ìthe little peopleî -- thatís you and I, folks -- will never figure it out, will never find out anyway, for they donít read SDA scholarly publications. (Come on now, admit it: Have YOU read FSS?) And theyíll never find it in the denominational publications that they do read, such as ìthe good old Review.î What this all means to you and me is that even Bacchiocchi admits that Paul is referring to the weekly seventh-day Sabbath. He won't agree that the Sabbath is one of the many pointer-shadows that became unnecessary after the Christ, the sun of righteousness, arrived on planet earth as Jesus of Nazareth. Bacchiocchi has his ways around that conclusion, but they are so devious that I donít think itís worth my time and yours to debunk them here. Just be glad you know the truth and that you can read it quite plainly in a good translation of the Bible if you are not disoriented by SDA fog. 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay Read "Sabbath in Crisis" for yourself. Write Life Assurance Ministries, P.O. Box 282, Sedona, AZ 86340. Or call 1.520.282.4319. Or click here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/sabb.htm. Do not go gentle into SDA night, Rage against the dying of the gospel light, Jude | ||
| Lori |
Jude, you are SO right!! When you said that, "maybe your struggle and confusion have more to do with resisting psychological intimidation.....than with any failure to grasp the concept". The scars that span 30 something years of Adventism run deep and the process of 'plastic surgery' to remove them is often painful. And the feelings of 'maybe it isn't worth it' are prevalent-----I've occasionally felt like,....."just give it up, just go back to being an Adventist.....you KNEW how to play that game" It's only when you forget your 'sword of truth' that you run in confusion. And, I ran off and dropped my sword! Had I stopped and STOOD FIRM like Ephesians tells us to do I would have had that blessed text in Col 2:16, 17,(I had two truths, but they didn't have the specifics of that one) And the sword of truth is about 'specifics'. It was there.......I just ran off and left it behind. I still haven't determined whether I charged, ran or jumped in the trench--I think the latter, when what I was supposed to be doing was standing firm!!! The book of Ephesians has been a real blessing to me. And, it very plainly says to STAND FIRM. If you haven't studied Ephesian, DO. It has helped me to see the 'battlefield' and what tools I have at my disposal. I had never understood what all the armor really meant and how it related to me until just recently. I know that all of you have suffered with similiar things. Your comments and scriptures continue to lift me up and keep my eyes on my Saviour. Stand firm! Lori | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Lori, Thanks SO MUCH for your stellar testimony! actually, you "shame" me a bit, for you are more willing than I to share the painful wounds personally sustained at the hands of SDA family, friends, colleagues, school-mates, "pew-mates," etc., etc., etc. How I wish for more "stand-firmers" like you! However, let's still praise God that we have as many as we do! "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Jesus quoted in Matthew 6:33,34. Jude |
