| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Remembering where you came from: Iím on the mailing list of SDA Pastor Jan Marcussen of Thompsonville, Illinois. What follows is a verbatim excerpt from his ìMid January, Y2Kî or January, 2000 newsletter: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Oh friend, I praise our kind Father that not everyone is asleep, and many are starting to wake up. Those who love to sleep, will wake up soon ñ whether they want to or not! At this very time, God is producing His mighty 144,000. Do you believe that? What will they be like? They will think, and talk, and act, just like Jesus. Praise God. Pray that you will be one of them. Revelation 7 reveals that they will be the ones who will be sealed with the seal of God. Read it. You and your loved ones will soon be sealed with the seal of God ñ or you will soon become Sunday-keepers. Itís hard for some people to understand how ñ in our modern society ñ anyone can think, and talk, and act, just like Jesus. And its hard for some people to understand how ñ in our modern society ñ anyone can be persecuted by their own ministers and church members like Jesus was ñ for talking and acting the way He did. Church members are discussing these questions even now. Many of you remember from former letters, that many faithful SDA church members have gotten illegally disfellowshipped from the SDA church which they love, and into which they came on of Sunday-keeping churches to join. Now, they find themselves illegally kicked out of Godís visible remnant church for upholding the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and they hear whispers that they have ìleft the church,î are ìoffshoots,î and are ìheaded toward hell.î Those who donít know what Rome is doing may get discouraged, but I praise our mighty God that many of them have been learning who and what is ìbehind the door.î From my 15 video programs, they have been learning what Godís SDA church is, and what Rome is doing to attack it. They have been learning that God's faithful people were in both Israel, and Judah; and are in both conference SDA churches, and non-conference SDA churches; that Christ is the door into His true church, that those in Him, are in it (Gal. 3:29), and that there is ìno difference,î (Rom. 3:22,28,29). Just last night, I gave a talk, which was recorded on cassette tape ñ quite thoroughly covering this subject. If you want a copy of it for those who donít understand these things, just send anything to help cover the cost. Godís people have been learning that the devil is trying to banish Godís SDA church from the face of the earth, infiltrate every Protestant church in the world, fill them up with Roman Catholic principles from the inside, and make them a bunch of Roman Catholic clones ñ singing, and swinging, and sinning, and celebrating ñ empty shells, with a Protestant church sign out front. Theyíve learned that this is how Rome taught Hitler to quickly and easily take over the countries of Europe, with their weakening infiltrating program before the frontal attack. The prophetic words of Ellen White have come to pass, and it has already been seen that the ìshakingî has started, and the 144,000 are being formed. From my former letters to you, youíve seen these things going on in the narrative of the Hilltop Rock & Roll SDA church with Pastor Rollin Rock. Those who were illegally kicked out were 1) Dumpster Norman, 2) Truckdriver George, 3) Dumptruck Charlie, 4) Bulldozer Pansy, 5) Cranedriver Patunia, 6) Motorcycle Timmy, and 7) Mophandle Fay. They went down into the valley ñ on the other side of town, and raised up a new SDA church in the new, shiny, sparkling clean, giant dumpster. They put a big sign out front saying, ìSeventh-day Adventist Church,î and they chose Dumpster Norman as their pastor. They have good order. Theyíve been actively working to save souls; upholding Godís SDA church around the world, giving out literature, following that up with Bible studies, and a number of souls have been joining them ñ Big Tiny Little III, his wife Flypaper Charlotte, and a number of children. They have peace, quiet, joy, and reverence in the sanctuary now because they donít have the rock & roll country western bluegrass music played any more like they had to tolerate up on the hill ñ which drove the angels of God away. They donít have to be embarrassed any more when they stayed in their seats praying in sorrow, as Pastor Rolin Rock had the whole congregation mill around in the sanctuary before the sermon in a mighty chaos ñ laughing, talking, hugging, patting each other on the back, and making sure that no angels were left, except a certain variety who like that kind of thing. (ìShun those who are irreverent.î AH 47). Now they donít feel uneasy any more, or come home exhausted, but have a sweet peace as they hear the pure, straight, loving SDA Bible message ñ which builds them up with peace, and joy, and love. They understand all about the Roman Catholic attack on Godís SDA church which as planned out by Rome in the Vatican II council 91962-1965), as youíve seen on the 15 video programs, and they recognize what is happening around the world in the churches, governments, and in society, as Rome does exactly what the prophet said that the harlot would do ñ ìThe Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman elements is. Whoever shall believe and obey the world of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution.î GC 581. [Omitting 2 paragraphs of EGW quotes.] TRUCKDRIVER GEORGE: In view of the fact that the principles of religious liberty in the U.S. constitution are being repudiated, a number of us have some questions. Now that we are down in the end of time, and the Lord Jesus is soon to come in the sky with power and great glory, will the horrors of the dark ages, and the glories of the day of Pentecost be blended? And how will church members act today compared with Godís faithful martyrs of old? [Omitting 2 paragraphs of EGW quotes.] TRUCKDRIVER GEORGE: I asked the pastor on the hill what he thought about his conference being taken over by the R.C. controlled government after the national Sunday law so that it will cease to exist, and that all of Godís people in there who are faithful SDAs will join all faithful SDAs in the woods, and homes, and jails, and other places, as we find in the last five chapters of Great Controversy. PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: Thatís absolutely impossible. TRUCKDRIVER GEORGE: Isnít that shocking to you! Isnít that HORRIFYING to you? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: No, I think itís cool. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Youíre not shocked and horrified when a few church leaders totally disregard the Bible, the Spirit of Prophecy, the SDA church manual, common decency, and religious liberty, to illegally kick out one of their own godly elders for kneeling before his God in prayer, and act like a Roman Catholic Jesuit tribunal of the dark ages? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: If every SDA church would act like that one did, then the church would be rid of those pesky ìhistoric Adventists, and there would be no one left to cause any protest, dissent, or division. Then the church would be in perfect unity as the church leaders said in their letter to that elder whom they kicked out. God for them! Then the church would come into line with the ecumenical movement by which all the world is to be converted. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Converted to what? Rome? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: You may not know it, but thatís exactly what certain powerful men have in mind. You might as well get used to it, because that's where many leading men are headed. And it's a good move. No one today who knows anything can survive unless they are in harmony with the Holy See. But the leaders in charge of it are cautions. They know that many church leaders and most of the members donít know a thing about this, and are not ready yet to accept it. So they must move slowly. Some know, and will admit it [like Elder Robert Folkenbergís father] but many donít know it, or will deny it. The action of excommunication by that church was a bold move by the leaders who instigated it, and they were taking a chance. Good for them! But itís good for us right now that the church membersí brains are in such a state that most of them donít see a thing. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: You donít mean this! PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: Of course I do. [Omitting 2 paragraphs of EGW quotes.] PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Is that the type of thing that you mean? Is that whatís coming? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: I donít pay much attention to what Sister White says, but that was great. Yes, thatís what is coming. But most of it probably wont happen for a number of months ñ until after the Sunday law. Some will happen before ñ like this church who got away with it. The men who are under orders to lead out in this movement know that the church members donít comprehend these things, and if anyone were to tell them, theyíd say that they are crazy. Thatís just fine. Thatís why two former General Conference Presidents could do what they did, and say what they said, and hardly anyone paid any attention to it ñ except those ridiculous ìhistoric Adventistsî [like yourself, and your crazy bunch whom we kicked out of our church]. Now youíre meeting in that giant dumpster with an SDA sign out front. You just wait until our Roman Catholic lawyer is finished with that ìhistoric SDA churchî in Florida! Their trial comes up in March or April, and once theyíre in jail, and their goods have been confiscated, youíll see what we will do to you and your crazy bunch for taking the name Seventh-day Adventist! Weíll take almost anyone into church membership ñ singing, dancing, jewelry ñ rings in their fingers, rings in their toes, or a bone in their nose ñ but we canít stand those ìhistoric Adventistsî with their Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. It gives me the creeps. As we get more and more conference men to come into line with the ecumenical movement, every one of those pesky ìhistoric Adventistsî will see what will happen to them. Either they will be loyal to the ìchurch,î or they will go to hell. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: And where is ìhellî ñ in the Catholic church basement? Donít you care what God says in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: If one of my church members asked me that, Iíd say ìyes.î But when you ask me that ñ I can tell you that I follow the church leaders, and only them. To follow them is to follow God. I donít care what they do. Any minister who is smart, better follow his leaders, or he will be out. The leadership IS the church. And we follow the church. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Godís faithful people ARE His church [AA 11, UL 315] including goodly leaders, not just the leaders, or a corporation ñ like you are saying. Under the 5th commandment, we are to submit to leaders and to one another, but not in opposition to the world of God. You have the Roman Catholic definition of what the church is. What you are saying is purely Roman Catholic. PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: So what? GC presidents and their friends have seen it my way. The one who recently resigned had a father who admitted that the Jesuits are pulling the strings among the leadership, and are laughing. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Yes, I learned that on the CCA video. PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: His son did a good job, because the Jesuit pawn Moore, got a chance to sue him and the GC for millions of their tithe money ñ (which was settled out of court) to go into the Jesuit organization. Donít worry, the Jesuits are Godís people too, and they will use the money for Godís cause. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Are you saying that any GC presidents & conference officials have had the Roman Catholic definition of what God's church is like, do you? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: Of course. Like Rome, the SDA conference structure in hierarchical, and the GC IS the church. The GC president was in court when he testified. Here are some quotes ñ ìThe General Conference, then, IS the church.... The embodiment of the Remnant Church as a Christian denomination, in a unified worldwide organization to which ALL baptized Seventh-day Adventists owe spiritual allegiance. EEOC vs. PPPA, Civ. #74-2025 CBR, p. 17.5. ìThe primary reason for the conflict is that these workers in the church have been unwilling to recognize and accept the authority of the church (the General Conference). It is also necessary for the church to establish its authority in the community of believers.î EEOC vs. PPPA, Civ. #74-2025 CBR, Neal C. Wilson. Notice that he separates the ìchurchî (the leadership & corporation) from the ìcommunity of believersî like the papal leaders do. One is to command, the other to obey. But in Godís sight, the ìcommunity of believersî IS the ìchurch.î ... PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Itís beautiful that God says, ìYea, ALL of you be subject ONE TO ANOTHER, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.î I Pet. 5:5. Only Rome has a hierarchical church with kingly authority. PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: Oh no. The GC president revealed in court that he was the president of a ìhierarchical structure" too. Here it is: ìThe plain and undeniable fact is that the Seventh-day Adventist church is most assuredly not a ìcongregationalî one (although it contains elements of congregationalism) but is clearly of the 'representative' or 'hierarchical' variety.î EEOC vs. PPPA, Civ. #74-2025 CBR, p. 4.8, Neal C. Wilson. ìThere is another universal and truly catholic organization, the Seventh-day Adventist Church,î Neal C. Wilson, Adventist Review, 3/5/81. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Sister White strongly upholds Godís SDA church around the world. She upholds the General Conference, the local conferences, the church leaders, church organization, and so do we. REMEMBER THAT. But at any time any of them follow Rome instead of Jesus and His word ..., and still claim to be the voice of God ñ in opposition to the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, do you want too know what the prophet says about it? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: Iím plugging my ears. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: The prophet told us that representatives of the church from all parts of the world, meeting in a general conference meeting were to be respected and have authority (GW 490), but concerning a few men ñ that ìthese men should stand in a sacred place to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be, that is past.î GC Bulletin of 1901, p.25.4. [Omitting 3 paragraphs of EGW quotes.] PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: She can say anything she wants, but the truth is that we already have had success in our great world ecumenical movement, and those who work for the SDA conferences respond in exactly the same sense as does a cloistered nun. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: A cloistered nun! Where did you get that? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: From the court record. Itís true because the GC president believes that itís true. Here it is ñ ìThose who work for the Seventh-day Adventist Church respond to a religious vocation in exactly the same sense as does a cloistered nun.î EEOC vs. PPPA, Civ. #74-2025 CBR, p. 90.1. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: How do you know all these things? Are you an SDA minister, or are you a Jesuit? PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: Even if I were both, so what? I know of no law in the conference that says that you canít be both. And where thereís no law, thereís no sin. Remember the church elder in that SDA church in Michigan, who is also a Sunday church minister? It took the SDA church people a while to get used to it, but they finally did. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: Yes, I saw that on the CCA video. PASTOR ROLIN ROCK: I uphold the church, and thatís why the church loves me. PASTOR DUMPSTER NORMAN: It depends on which church you are talking about. Youíre going to face the judgment of God soon, and then youíll see who loves you. I appeal to you to surrender all to GodÖ. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * And there you have it, my friends: Thatís where you came from. Do you miss it now? I'd love to read your reactions and responses. Meanwhile, go not gentle into SDA night, Rage against the dying of the gospel light, Jude | ||
| Onesimus |
For more memories: I received a small booklet in the mail recently titled "Who's to blame for all this shame?" by Baptist-turned-Adventist James Renfro. On page 5 he states, "God's people are depicted as those who keep ALL of His commandments, and recognize His Sabbath as a sign between them and their God throughout their generations. (He had earlier mis-equated "children of Israel" in Ex. 31:16-18 as "my people.") Sunday keepers, Friday keepers, those who claim to keep every day holy and those who fail to recognize God's true Sabbath are NOT CONSIDERED God's people, neither can they be any more than the atheist, and God's Sabbath keepers should never refer to them as such. If they desire to be called God's people, then they must obey His commandments and keep His Sabbath holy." (Emphsis added) Romans 10:4 says "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." Praise God that our salvation is NOT dependent on our KEEPING anything but is being kept for us through and by the blood of Jesus. | ||
| Lynn W |
To SDA Pastor Jan Marcussen (wherever you are) WHAT A BUNCH OF "TRASH." If SDA really believe there will only be 144,000 sealed, that leaves them in a predicament of thousands of SDA worldwide who will not receive. I sure hope we don't get any of that distasteful "laughing, talking, hugging, patting each other on the back" in my church. It might wrinkle my dry-clean only dress. It's no wonder they can only sit around "praying in sorrow." | ||
| Colleentinker |
I'm really struck by Jan Marcussen's newsletter. While it is sensational and hysterical, it's interesting to me that the pastor representing the SDA church in the quoted dialogue and the dumpster-historical-Adventist-pastor both are far from the scriptures in what they state. Perhaps none of the conversation would have grabbed my attention as it did if it hadn't been for the news coverage I did for the Folkenberg story for Adventist Today. After covering that story, I'm convinced that things are not what they seem deep inside the Silver Spring headquarters. While I can't accept Marcussen's newsletter as credible (it has no objective journalistic integrity), still some of what he quotes may actually reflect some reality. I'm not prepared to decide how much reflects reality, but I know this: the SDA church is not what it seems. I think both pastors (regardless of how authentic the quoted conversation may or may not be) represent extremes that actually exist inside the SDA church. Neither is an isolated case. They both represent many more just like them. I praise God for leading me to himself, away from the organization that often misrepresents not only the truth of Scripture but also its very own self! We need to pray for the people still bound in Adventism. Their deception is deep. I'm reminded of a quote Dale Ratzlaff made Friday night, There are two kinds of Adventists, uniformed ones and dishonest ones. He's absolutely right. | ||
| susan |
Doesn't this kind of garbage sound "CULTIC" to anyone? I'm struck by how freaked out, stuff like this makes me feel. For some time I've been convinced that adventism is a cult. I haven't always felt this way, but after studying other cults the similarities are amazing! Don't JW's talk about the chosen 144,000? And wasn't their founder a split-off from adventism? Didn't EGW steal alot of Joseph Smith's stuff? Makes one wonder??? | ||
| Lydell |
Yes, that was certainly one incredible amount of garbage! It does take you back doesn't it? There always seems to be an underlying current of fear in everything the SDA has to say about the future....annnd the present for that matter. I guess I've got a warped sense of humor. It just reminded me for some reason of a song the kids in a friends non-SDA church like to sing. "Shake Shake Shake, I'm gonna shake that devil off my shoe!" Ew, I ain't goin' back there! | ||
| Cas |
I believe Jan M. is a historic SDA and seems they fear everything including the corporate SDA church. I know someone of similar mind set. He is extremely obsessed with the Catholic church and how they are taking over the world! He like Jan M. feels they are infiltrating the Adventist's with Jesuit priests and trying to destroy it from the inside. I wonder what kind of proof this guy gives that all this is happening? It's so sad that this message of Jan M. will never IMO teach the saving grace of Jesus and his goodness and love for us. |
