| Author |
Message |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 4:34 pm: |     |
Dear Lynn,
Forgive me for over-personalizing my response. When I used the word "you," I wasn't intending it to mean that you were using Scripture imappropriately or were breaking "the rules of the kingdom." By using "you," I was only trying to answer your question.
Let's be pals, huh? We have no basis for real disagreement.
In His service,
Jude |
Lynn W
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 6:00 pm: | |
You're forgiven.
I always thought we were on the same side.
We don't agree on this subject of Ellen White, but I agree with you on nearly all your posts. |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 6:19 pm: | |
Dear Lynn,
I must also apologize for not being "out there with you on the front lines" contending vigorously with Dr. Tazz for the faith. You are a brave brave heart. And you will no longer be without me. He cannot just come in here and savage our people in God's name and get away with it. You can trust me on this. Stay tuned.
Keeping the faith once delivered to the saints,
Jude |
Lynn W
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2000 - 9:09 am: | |
Thank you, that means a lot to me.
On your subject of EGW witnessing to Christ, A few months ago, I started a collection of EGW quotes in an article I call "Diminishing the Diety." At least I think they relate to what you're trying to say. This is what I have so far.
(The spaces & tabs don't come out like in my article, so you just have to imagine.)
Diminishing the Diety
Spiritual Gifts vol.1 pg. 22-23, & 25, and Early Writings, pg. 149.
ìSorrow filled heaven as it was realized that man was lost... and there was no way of escape for the offender...I saw lovely JESUS...Three times he was shut in by the glorious light about the FATHER, and the third time he came from the FATHER, his person could be seen...He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that he had been pleading with his FATHER, and had offered to give his life a ransom...and his FATHER had accepted the plan.î
Notice she says, ìI SAW.î If the vision is from God, He was either lying to her, or Jesus was lying to us when He said. ìI and my father are one.î John 10:30. Itís hard to picture them arguing with each other.
Also compare with The Great Controversy, ch. 19, pg. 347,
ìThe kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race.î
The Bible says, ìIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.î John 1:1-5. ìHim, being delivered by the determinate counsel and FOREKNOWLEDGE of God...î Acts 2:23 ìKnown unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.î Acts 15:18. ìWho hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,î 2 Tim 1:9. Also thereís Eph 1:3-4, 11 & 1 Pet 1:18-20.
Desire of Ages, pg.753 - ìThe Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror, or tell Him of the Fatherís acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that Their separation was to be eternal.î
This conflicts with Christís own prediction in Mark 14:58 and John 2:19-21 ì...Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up...But he spake of the temple of his body.î
See also Matt 17:9,
ì...Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.î
Matt 17:22-23,
ì...The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.î
Matt 20:18-19,
ìBehold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.î
Mi cha el
Who is like God?
Ellen G. White: The Early Years Volume 1 1827-1862
chapter/page:
7/125 - ìThe Lord has shown me in vision that Jesus rose up, and shut the door, and entered the holy of holies, at the seventh month, 1844; but Michael's standing up (Dan. 12:1) to deliver His people is in the future.î
The Spirit of Prophecy Volume One/4 (1884)
31/342 32/58
ìMichael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from Heaven, after he had remained in the grave a short time, and resurrected him, and took him to Heaven.î
Patriarchs & Prophets
73/761 - Appendix - ìAGAIN: CHRIST IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD....HE WAS REVEALED TO THEM AS THE ANGEL OF JEHOVAH, THE CAPTAIN OF THE LORD'S HOST, MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL.î
Where? Never at any time is Christ called ìthe angel of Jehovah,î or ìMichael the archangel.î
Evangelism
6/163 - ìChrist has given us an example. "Yet Michael the Archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."
Also Testimonies for the Church Volume Three 23/220;
Spiritual Gifts. Volume 1 (Published by James White 1858)
6/43 - ìI saw that Moses passed through death, but Michael came down and gave him life before he saw corruption. Satan claimed the body as his, but Michael resurrected Moses, and took him to heaven. The Devil tried to hold his body, and railed out bitterly against God, denounced him as unjust, in taking from him his prey. But Michael did not rebuke the Devil, although it was through his temptation and power that God's servant had fallen. Christ meekly referred him to his Father, saying, The Lord rebuke thee.î
Early Writings of Ellen G. White (Copyright 1882 By Mrs. E. G. White)
3/164 - ìMoses passed through death, but Michael came down and gave him life before his body had seen corruption. Satan tried to hold the body, claiming it as his; but Michael resurrected Moses and took him to heaven. Satan railed bitterly against God, denouncing Him as unjust in permitting his prey to be taken from him; but Christ did not rebuke His adversary, though it was through his temptation that the servant of God had fallen. He meekly referred him to His Father, saying, ëThe Lord rebuke thee.íî
1/36 - ìI saw that the anger of the nations, the wrath of God, and the time to judge the dead were separate and distinct, one following the other, also that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out.î
Also A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White pg. 19.
Desire of Ages (Copyright 1898 by Pacific Press Publishing Company)
10/99 - ìWhen he came with a message to Daniel, he said, ëThere is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael (Christ) your Prince.í Dan. 10:21.î
Notice this scripture is put in quotes, complete with reference. But check your Bible to see how accurately Mrs. White has ìquotedî it. The word Christ does not belong here. The Name doesnít show up anywhere in the Old Testament or any time in conjunction with Michael. The doctrine of Christ being Michael doesnít come from any verse of scripture, but from Ellen Whiteís teaching based on her own rewritten verses.
Prophets & Kings (copyright 1917 by Pacific Press)
46/572 - ìFor three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness...Christ Himself came to Gabrielís aid...ëThe prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days,í Gabriel declares; ëbut, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.í Dan 10:13.î
First, we donít know who ìwrestled with the powers of darknessî because the Bible doesnít say. But more importantly, Ellen White is reducing the Divine Son of God to a mere angel, a created being. In case there is any doubt as to whether this was intentional, read the next quote.
47/584 - ìThen the Angel, who is Christ Himself...î |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2000 - 12:16 pm: | |
Thank you, Lynn,
What a great exposure of the false prophecy of Ellen G. White! Incontrovertable proof that she was a worshipper of angels. Your research demonstrates that she was not only a false prophet, but an idolator as well.
For, Paul tells the Colossian believers (that's us, folks, we are the Colossian believers), "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you from the prize. Such a person [in this case, EGW] goes into great detail [as you have so elequently demonstrated, Lynn] about what he [she] has seen, and his [her] unspiritual mind pufffs him [her] up with idle notions. He [she] has lost connection with the Head [and I think you know who this is], from whom the whole body [and this], supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God [not EGW] causes it to grow."
Damning, absolutely damning, testimony from Paul, the most abundant apostle (1 Cor. 15:10).
You are the believer, Lynn, who has "most abundantly" shown EGW to be an idolator. And I don't think she "grew" out of this one.
I will close with Paul's own closure (2d Colossians 4:18), substituting my name for his,
I, Jude, write this greeting in my own hand. Remember my chains. Grace be with you,
Jude |
Plain Patti
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2000 - 12:24 pm: | |
Lynn,
What a good job you have done! Such good documentation!
Aren't you glad you weren't raised in this muck?
Grace and peace,
Patti |
Lynn W
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2000 - 10:20 pm: | |
Thank you, thank you, thank you, sweet Jesus!!
I was raised in a heathen home with a Nazi step-dad. His unbridled bigotry taught me to abhor prejudice of all kinds. Remember Archie Bunker? My step-dad was not only his biggest fan, but also his twin - in looks, NY accent, vocabulary, er, shall we say, lack of education, & bigotry.
Somehow, God got a hold of me in early adulthood, & the best part was bringing me a wonderful husband "who serves the Lord with gladness."
Since then, I've led a sheltered life. I got immediately into a very good, Biblical church. That was definitely God. I could have gone either way since I had rarely opened a Bible & wouldn't have known the difference - at least not at first. But He instilled in me early a sense that the Bible was the Word of God & all teaching must be judged by that. It had the be the Spirit because I couldn't have gotten it any other way; I'd only visited church a few times as a child. Something must have stuck with me.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, sweet Jesus!! |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2000 - 7:15 am: | |
Bless you, Lynn,
You're also a writing talent, no question. Publish more on the Internet.
"Don't let NOBODY turn you 'round! Keep on to Galilee!"
Jude |
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