| Author | Message | ||
| Lydell |
Lori, I understand what you are saying about what a blessing it is to discuss with others who have "been there" the struggle etc. But you know what has struck me over the past couple years is that former SDA's are not the only ones who have had to face these life changes. It seems to be the same struggle for former Catholics, as well. There IS truth in the Catholic church, just as there is some in the SDA church. But goodness knows it is knee deep in legalism as well....different brand of course, but legalism none the less. There are folks in that situation who have serious struggles with family members too. And they also have to struggle against the stuff planted in their minds that if they leave the church then they are doomed. It doesn't negate the seriousness of the struggle for SDA's leaving the church, by any mean. My point is just that all of us need to realize that this, in fact, is not a struggle that ONLY the former SDA faces. There are many out there you will meet who are going to benefit from the things you learn through this time of your life. | ||
| Lee |
Good to see you again, Lydell! | ||
| Lori |
Lydell, I agree with you completely. | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Patti, Grace to you and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ. Are you still with us? Awhile back you posted: "I have heard this is the friendliest ex-SDA forum on the web! I have been on several SDA forums that were--how can I put it gracefully--less than pleasant. I am running away from one right now, having been thoroughly trashed for having a mind." Ever since I read that I've been fearing that we might say something to make you run from us too! And while maybe I'm needlessly sensitive to things like that, I still think it's better to err on the safe side, and just ask you flat out: Are you running away from us too? Have we too been "less than pleasant"? It would bother me a great deal if you feel we too have "thoroughly trashed [you] for having a mind." May we hear from you at least one more time? Jude | ||
| Patti |
Jude, It is very kind of you to show such concern. I have been busy, but could find time to visit if you would like to email me. God bless you all. Patti | ||
| Lee |
I have a question? In the garden, did the serpent do his "thing" out in the open, for everyone, even God to see, or did he very smoothly pull the humans into the softer shadows to work his magic? What do you think? I think Angels of light, work in the light, and angels of darkness prefer to work in the softer shadows. Just a thought. | ||
| Lee |
Anytime you want to go fishing, you know you spend a lot more time waiting, then you do reeling in the catch. The first step is placing the bait on the hook, then you just drop out of sight, stay calm, not make waves, and wait....Just wait. When someone nibbles on the hook, that is when you make your move...not to much, or the catch will get away. After the bait is comfortably inside the fish, thatís when you set the hook. SNAP---, then you real in your prize. Remember, few things are what they seem. Test every spirit, or the next inviting morsel you see, may have a unseen hook in it! | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
As Alice -- superstar of Lewis Caroll's "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking Glass" -- once said, "This is getting curiouser and curiouser." | ||
| Colleentinker |
I suspect that we should move this conversation to a new thread, but I have to make a comment. I believe that all of us former Adventists have to shed a lot of similar burdens as we heal and learn to live with the Holy Spirit. Arrogance and intellectual pride are two things many of us have to deal with. It's understandable; we were taught that we were special; we believed we uniquely had The Truth; we learned to use intellectual arguments to support our positions; we valued education and the "special knowledge" which we all KNEW we possessed. And above all, we felt superior to the "anti-intellectual" fundamentalist evangelicals and the liturgical "popish" Protestant denominations. I continue to be humbled as I run into situations which bring me face to face with my pride. I think we all fight an ongoing battle with pride. But we have an obligation to each other. We are all here because we love Jesus and understand what each other is experiencing or has experienced. We are here to support each other. It's really important that we treat each other with grace and respect and leave behind our feelings of cynicism and sarcasm when we address each other or ask questions. There are plenty of other forums where we can engage in clever, sarcastic theological debate. After all, our job as Christ-followers is to love each other for Him. I pray for everybody on this website. I pray that everyone who visits here will be blessed by the Holy Spirit, and I pray that the Holy Spirit will protect and bless this site. I am so grateful to and for everyone here who posts with integrity, sensitivity, and the love of Jesus! | ||
| Timo K. |
Colleen, I would say AMEN to everything you wrote. For several days I have been discussion addtions in a Finish advlist, and found that there is very little understanding about the subject. Maybe even the church as a whole has deep wounds, which are often too painful to put into open. The way to avoid the truth about our past is often DENIAL rather than confronting the past. The same way, as individuals, we need to go back all the way to our childhood and ask the Holy Spirit to show if we have hidden fears and pain to confront and get freed. All bondage of family and ancsesters needs to be broken. Often addictive behavour run from generation to generation unless it is broken by the Holy Spirit. timo | ||
| Patti |
Dear Colleen and friends, Thank you again for your concern and kindness. I assure you, Jude, that you have not stepped out of bounds in the least. You have been nothing but a Christian gentleman. As I told Colleen in a private email, I find a lot of warmth and kindness here. God bless you all. Patti | ||
| Patti |
Dear Colleen and Jude, Thank you both for your kind personal welcomes. You are right, there is much kindness here. I am posting again because I am afraid that my private emails to you are not getting through. My server has bounced many emails back to me this week. If you have not received my letters, let me know, and I will try something different. In the meantime, thank you for your kind words. May God be with you and with all who post on this forum. A great debtor to His grace, Patti | ||
| anon. |
Just a taste of how people really are from www.<deleted> <deleted: outside of the scope of this forum> | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
I have some questions about the posting immediately above: 1. Who is "anon"? 2. Why did Anon post immediately after Patti's post? 3. Is the "Patti" in Anon's post intended by Anon to be the same person as the "Patti" who had just posted? 4. Who is "Fred" in Anon's post? 5. Is "Fred" Anon? 6. Why are "Fred" and "Patti" having an argument in Anon's post? 7. Why is there this enigmatic post immediately following Patti's post? 8. Why were there enigmatic posts immediatly following Patti's post only a few days ago on this website? 9. Why were these earlier enigmatic postings posted by someone using the handle "Lee"? 10. Are "Lee" and "Anon" one and the same person? 11. If so, then why would "Lee" persue Patti with enigmatic postings on www.formeradventist.com? 12. Is this a case of "e-stalking"? 13. If so, does it violate the rules for this discussion group as laid down by the founders and organizers of FAF? And if it does violate the rules, then I want to state clearly here and now that the behavior should cease immediately! As far as I am aware the following biblical passage constitute the rules for this website: "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:29-32 (NIV). And as far as I personally am concerned, these rules are sufficient. Thanks for paying attention by my questions, Jude | ||
| Bruce H |
Jude I believe that 156, Lee and anon are one and the same. And he or she is here to harass patti | ||
| Susan |
Is it just me, or does it seem like every time an adventist posts on this forum, their message sounds VERY confusing??? They ramble on without making much sense. Just a personal observation. Jude, your questions are great! I'm also very curious about all the things you bring up. Anon refers to a "Susan". To set the record straight, this is not me. I've never heard of this other discussion forum. Funny how sda's kind-of stand out on this site. It seems like they're easy to detect. Would anyone care to comment, on how you can tell if it's one of them? | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Pant pant pant! I've just returned from a whirlwind tour of other SDA-related sites. And I would say that there is a great deal of unchristlike behavior going on in some of them. No wonder Patti fled from whatever website was "trashing" her to this one. I agree with you, Susan. Some people who "rise to the defense" of SDAism ramble illogically all over "the fields of the Lord." They cast aspursions, they deny the ill-will within their own hearts and project it onto others, they lash out unexpectedly at people who, like Patti, are only behaving in a normal way -- not perfect, not always right necessarily, but, for God's sake, they are children of the kingdom! And they deserve to have a safe place to mis-speak once in awhile, to stub a toe and stumble once in awhile, etc., without having to face a firing squad! What is this "kingdom of God" that is within us? What did Jesus really mean when he said, "Love one another with self-sacrificing (agape) love even as I have loved you with self-sacrificing (agape) love"? If this is not what we're all about as people interacting together on this website, then we have nothing at all to offer anybody. "The kingdom of heaven" is not about settling the question of whether to attend divine services on Saturday or Sunday. It's not about whether to eat meat or not. It's not about which church is "the true church." It's about loving one another. "They will know we are Christians by our love," not by our acid wit, our moral self-righteousness, our superior fencing ability, our cleverness in debate, etc. After all, Jesus said, "If you offend one of these little ones ["babies in Christ"] who believes in me, it is better for you that a mill stone be hanged around your neck and you be drowned in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea." If this "kingdom of heaven" in which we live every day of our lives is not a spiritual reality every day of our lives, then we have absolutely nothing to offer each other or anyone who comes in from the outside or anyone still on the outside. This is very distressing to me, and not just because it is distressing to Patti, but also because I myself feel invaded and violated. I wanted so much for many many years for the Seventh-day Adventist church to be such a "kingdom of heaven." And when it proved impossible for me to live there any more, I found FAF and this website to be a place where I could practice being a citizen of this "kingdom of heaven" that is within us and among us (Luke 17:20,21). And now, when something like this happens, I feel betrayed. I hope we can all pull together, rather than fall apart, because of this experience, and be stronger in the Lord because of it. Maybe I'm too sensitive. I don't know. Any other reactions out there? Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Bruce, thanks for the insight into 156=Anon=Lee and who knows who else. One's antennas don't always extend properly when one is being flattered and soft-soaped. You're very astute. -Jude | ||
| Susan |
Jude, wow! I so agree with you. We all need to pull together, not apart. We're co-laborors in the kingdom work of Christ. This forum should be a place that reflects the love of Jesus. Sure we can debate or discuss certain topics. But I truly feel this site is a safe place, where I can talk with brothers and sisters in Christ. I thank God for all of you. The humility and humbleness that God requires of us isn't always easy to act out. We must daily rely on the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives to live with a servant's heart. When we catch a glimpse of who Christ is, then this awesome love begins to fill us so that we might overflow onto others. (It is also a process, one in which we're always growing in) The love of God is so evident at this site. Like Jude I agree, "they will know we are Christians by our love"! Many sda's and "newly escaped formers" haven't experienced much of this love. Perhaps this is what we are called to do. From a wounded sheep who heard the call of my Sheperd, Susan |
