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Archive through August 5, 2000Bmorgan20 8-05-00  10:01 pm
Archive through August 6, 2000Questioner20 8-06-00  11:06 pm
Archive through August 8, 2000Questioner20 8-08-00  7:52 am
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Maryann
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Questioner,

I have a question for you. What is your focus?

I have an observation:

When as an SDA, a person came out of the JW church, we praised God for the the lost sheep that came into the fold.

This person was encouraged to stay in contact with their friends and study with them in hopes of bringing them into the fold also. When they did, no matter how sincerely, emphatic or gently they were, they were accused by the JW of being slanderious, un-christian and a host of other ugly things. In fact, life long friendships were cut off over this. The "former" JW was severely persecuted for his new faith.

The SDA would put their arm around the "former" JW and be a support to them. They would tell him that when Jesus told the truth He was severely critisized for it too. They were told that they would be persecuted for the truth too.

My observation is that the Sabbath keeping, non-ham eating Jews were the people that crucified Him! That is not a slanderious statement to the SDA! It is the Biblical truth!

So come on! Get real! Can't you see the same thing that some people are doing here?! If we are standing on the truth as we believe the Bible presents and it is significantly different from what others believe, there WILL be differences!

There are a lot of former SDA's that have been severely hurt. Genuinely hurt! These people are sharing that hurt so other's that have been hurt also, don't feel like the "lone ranger"!

Please don't be quick to be judgemental (sp?). You wouldn't have agreed with the the JW's that the "former" JW was judgemental would you? Sooooo, don't do that here!

Upward and onward.......Maryann
George
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Questioner,

I think you miss the poiont on this forum. No one has a problem talking to you about anything, as long as it is done nicely. Disagreements should always be stated in an "I message" form, to do otherwise, as you do, is rude. You see there, I just made a you message statement so you can see what I mean, it doesn't feel good does it.

You are always trying to change the way we talk, I will say again--If you don't like the way we talk, don't listen. You are not here in the world to train us in the way you think we should be, it is your job to train yourself in the ways of God and not interfere with others in their efforts.

This is the last I will have to say to you.

George
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Questioner,
Hang in there and don't be discouraged. As long as you are following the rules and keeping Christ in your heart you can know you are okay. No matter how mean and degrading others can be. I have enjoyed my converstations with you and can feel an honest, good spirit behind your posts. You,like I, have often been misinterpreted here. You will notice from my recent post what I meant about the pat on the back society. That may not be nice but it is true. Unfortunately, it is what many have chosen this forum to be. Certain persons on this forum insist on persecuting those who don't fit into their perception of how one should post on here(much like they claim you are doing).

If you would like good christian fellowship and dialogue, without fear of reprisal here is my e-mail address: hvnlybrz@netscape.net. Please write to me, I can assure you I will not censure you.

God bless you in your stand for truth,
Wendy
Maryann
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Y'all,

One of the few TV shows I watch is Survivors. I've watched them form alliances and go after the weak and the strong.

I'm quite saddened to see the same thing happening here. I'm not singling out any of the last few days post's for this observation. I'm looking back in my minds eye and seeing it happen on occasion over the time I've participated on this forum.

MYSELF included, we need to be careful not to form and alliance with anyone else but Jesus.

That said:

George is a brand new Christian. He lived in a terror of God for 40+ years. I'm not going to call him weak because he has demonstrated strengths and insights that indicate otherwise. I will call him a new babe in Christ. He knows beyond doubt now that he is loved unconditionally by God. He knows that he is saved. He has peace. How many can say that?

That said:

Matthew 18:1-6 NIV......personalized for George, the babe and child of God:

*******

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

He called George and had him stand among them. And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like George, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like George is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

And whosoever welcomes George in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes George, who believes in me, to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

That said:

I have known George for 42 years. I have seen a very fearful angry person at God change to a person that no longer fears God or is angry with Him. He is secure in the salvation that is his, Completed by Christ 2000 years ago. And accepted by George several months ago.

How about all of us think before we post, is our alliance with Christ or against a babe, child or adult in Christ?

Onward and upward........Maryann

P.S. You know how I know this about George?! HE'S MY BROTHER AND I'M PROUD OF HIM!!!!!!!!! George NOW believes!!
Susan
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy and Questioner, I'm afraid I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I've read nothing but love and acceptance from the "regulars" who dialogue with you two. I have to be honest, it seems to me that you are the ones with a hostile and argumenative spirit. I'm shocked at the attitude of hostility that seems to spew from some of your posts. We are FORMER SDA's. Do you get that? You don't have to agree with us, but this site is a place where we can have fellowship and support from other formers. It's been said before, that all are welcome here. But you must keep in mind the actual reason for this site.

If we bother you so much, why do you continue to contribute to our discussions? I don't go on websites for SDA's and start throwing insults around. Why do you guys do this? I'm being honest and sincere. I don't want to pick an argument. I just don't get it??? The things that you guys accuse others of, seems to be exactly what is coming from you two.

George and Patti have been nothing but loving towards both of you. Please stop with this verbal attacking of them. It seems to me that there is an evil stronghold at work here.

I pray that Almighty God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, will put an end to this evil influence on our site. In Jesus name, amen!
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is what I mean. George personally has never been mentioned above in my posts. Certainly he is the least of my concerns. What does concern me is that when I reach out to someone who is hurting ie;Questioner, and offer him fellowship when he has received nothing but ridicule on this site, and all of a sudden I am attacking, and hostile and abusive. That is exactly what you are portraying in your posts above. You call on the name of Jesus, yet there is none of His spirit in your posts. Jesus said He will call a delusion to come upon those who claim to know Him but do not follow His words. That is what I see happening here. You have believed a lie and it has destroyed your ability to reason in a christian manner. He also says not all who say Lord, Lord, will be saved. Depart from me you who work evil,I never knew you.

You got your wish.

Bye.
Wendy

Richard please cancel my password and user name as of today. I will check and I want it removed.
Susan
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry if I came across as being harsh to you Wendy. I don't want to be mean to you. In fact I pray daily for all who post here, that includes you. I just have a rather blunt way at times. I was really just calling things as I see them. I thought I asked some resonable questions. The anger you express is just puzzling to me because I don't understand.

What I do understand is the confusion and turmoil. When I was exposed to the lies and deceptions of Adventism it was overwhelming. Satan no longer had a hold on me. It still didn't keep my whole belief system from crashing. I struggled. It's never easy to give up on much cherished "truths". I've heard ex-Mormons mention this. There are many beloved stories that they hold onto about their prophet J.Smith. It's very hard to give up things you hold dear. Especially when you find out it was all a lie.

I pray that both of you will forgive me for anything I've said that might sound like a personal attack. I'm still trying to figure out what I said that implied that I "can't reason in a Christian manner"??? In what way have you been ridiculed? I can't believe that we are reading the same messages. I am seriously puzzled. Your comment about George being "the least of my concerns" is just downright unbelieveable. Frankly I'm very confused. I was speaking of how your posts sounded to me, in contrast with those of whom you seem to be angry with.

Also Wendy, the verse you quoted from I think is Mt.7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me on that day Lord, Lord , did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
If you read the preceding verses you see that Jesus is speaking about "watching out for false prophets". Jesus is not speaking to his chosen ones here. This is a direct warning. Those who are His sheep have no need to fear. I know all to well that under anger really lies fear. I'm so thankful that because of Jesus' blood, I have assurance of my salvation. This was the ultimate act of God's love. Perfect love drives out fear.
Patti
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,
Thank you for your kind words. I have to admit I am just as puzzled as you. I think, though, that you have been very kind. I wish we could make some people understand that we are not an aggressive group here; we are not trying to change anyone or anything, just to support each other as survivors of a cultic sect. The only thing that is important is that Jesus Christ is all-sufficient for our salvation. Why some are threatened by this (and I am not speaking of anyone in particular, just based on my experience with those who cling to our works as a part of our salvation) is beyond me. Jesus has promised to save all who will believe in Him. Why do we try to set conditions upon His salvation when He has not done so? "Whoever believes in Me shall have eternal life," "has passed from death to life," "will never die," etc. Interesting that I have experienced ten times the hostility (at least) at telling others of the worthiness of Jesus Christ than I ever did in my SDA days when I mentioned the sabbath to nonsabbatarians. The Gospel affronts our egos, I believe. The "sacrificing of self" comes when we realize that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that we can do to make ourselves acceptable to God. We are totally dependent upon the doing and dying of Jesus Christ.

At any rate, thank you for your encouraging remarks. Your words are a blessing to me.

Grace and peace,
Patti
Loneviking
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel I need to add my support to what Patti and Susan have written in that I don't find nasty, hateful exchanges going on. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only puzzled one around here. I was beginning to think there must be some e-mailing going on that I was missing!!

If you want to see nasty and hateful, then check out 'Adventist Issues', or even the 'Voluntary Adventist Forum'. I've gone back over the posts in this thread twice and I can't find anything to set Wendy off like that. Oh well, maybe my hide is rhino tough and my brain like concrete...........
Susan
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti, thanks for your kind words. Your posts always reflect the message of Christ. He is all sufficient. When we catch a glimpse of His holiness, it does tend to remind us that we need to "die to self". For we are so utterly unworthy. It's interesting how so many folks seem to want a role in their salvation. Some have to do something to receive it. Others have to work at keeping it. What that really does is take away from the grace of God. If we play a role in the salvation process, then doesn't that make Christ's work incomplete? Just a thought.

In Christ,
Susan
Susan
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LoneV., I didn't read your post prior to my last posting. Thanks for your support. I have to say, your sense of humor is just craking me up! Some of you guys are so funny! I'm still tickled by many of the comments on the veggie vs meat thread. Anyway, I guess we'll be shaking our heads for a while over this one.

God Bless,
Susan
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, you really don't see that phrases such as :

Do you get that?

I'm shocked at the attitude of hostility that spews from your posts.

are inflammatory and deliberately provocative?

What did I write above in my letter to Questioner that was hostile? I empathized with him, and offered a source of support. Then Susan jumps in after being gone for some time with a verbal attack about how hostile I am being. Maybe she was associating me with Questioner's post because I offered him friendship, but I did not, and I will stand by that forever, write anything hostile above. When I start getting hostile is when someone accuses me of being hostile when I haven't done anything to deserve it. If you hadn't done anything hostile, yet people persisted in accusing you of that and worse, wouldn't you feel a bit persecuted and become a bit defensive? This is why I am going to stay out of this. Why try when people are just going to misinterpret what you say? What is the point? I hope this will put an end to the dialogue and the wolves jumping in to worry the meat. Let me guess. I just got really creative with my metaphors so someone is going to come back with how abusive I am because of my choice of words. Doesn't surprise me a bit. I will answer all questions until Richard deletes my name and password if you need me to further clarify anything. Also, anyone is free to e-mail me.

Wendy
Richardtinker
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy,

One of the greatest discoveries that most of us on this forum have made is that we are SECURE! Relax, you are safe in Jesus.

You have said that you are leaving us. Since you haven't, I'll assume you still want to fellowship with us formers. And since you still want to fellowship, why should you be deleted?

I am reminded of a relationship I was involved in where someone that really loved me kept testing the limits to see if I would keep loving them.

We love you Wendy.

Richard
Susan
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy, I'm sorry you feel that way. I really wanted to know if you understood that the majority of us are formers. I'm sorry that I sounded sarcastic. But from the way some folks come on this website with an argumentative spirit, I just had to ask the obvious. Like I said before I'm not trying to be mean to you personally. My comment about "hostility spewing from your posts" was intended as a general observation of the anger that seems to be coming from many non-formers who post here. I was just trying to state what I observed. You are intitled to draw your own conclusions as well.
It just seemed to me that there were many attacks thrown at George and Patti that were totally uncalled for.

I'm dropping out of this discussion. I pray that the insults will stop. And that we can always strive for edifying conversation.
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2000 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard,
Your a stinker:)!

Your post made me cry and was the first kindness I've felt in days.

Love,
Wendy
Delstar
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My note to you all...... I have 'lurked around' this site for some time and have been so impressed with the Christ like spirit of all these posts. It is indeed a shock to see that carnality still exists here but then.....aren't we still humans?

Loneviking......I agree with you.....I come over here just for a bit of refreshment after being on VOAF. It didn't begin that way but in the past few weeks has become another hornet's nest. Sometimes I feel it isn't worth my time but every time I make a decision to stay away, I'll receive an e-mail from someone that encourages me. God knows just when to send them.

Wendy, stick around. It's always good to be among believers whether we always agree or not.

Jesus Is Enough
George
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard,

You are a very special person. Just thought you should know.

George

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