| Author | Message | ||
| Allenette |
What Patti posted above, while certainly NOT publicized by SDA, was to the best of my knowledge, found by the man who wrote "Prophetess of Health" years ago, during his research at the White Estate. The latter portion where EGW talks of not wanting to share her bed with anyone but the receiver of the letter, and Lucinda, was written in a letter to James White! It has been posted several times, on the various SDA-related websites in the past couple of years. I'm just guessing here, but I'll bet Dolf Boek is the author of the stuff Patti's been reading? I can sure understand why most current AND former SDA's would QUAKE at the idea of worrying about EGW's sex life! LOLOL. That mental picture is just tooooo painful. | ||
| Timo. K |
Lynn, of course we are sinners by nature becouse of the sins of Adam and Eve. In that sence all our tendensies are sinful. In a broader sense even our prayers are sinful and needs the cleansing Blood of Christ. To have a homosexual orientation is also sin in a sence of original sin, but the same is true with having heterosexual orientation. Our sinful nature makes everything in us sinful. Becouse of the Cross, we are not counted sinners, we are counted Righteous, even though we miss the mark in every aspect of life. The Holy Spirit is given to help us not to live according to our sinful nature, but our sinful nature remains in spite of the Holy Spirit. I am not talking here about sin we do but sinful nature. I think we all agree that even a sinful look is sin or even a sinful thought is sin, but where is the line between sin we do and sinful nature? Our sinful nature is not dependent weather we sin or not (nodody is free of sin), we are always sinful by nature. If homosexuality is a sin "of nature", a person can be homosexual without doing a single homosexual act, not even in thoughts. In other words does homosexuality belongs to the inherited "sin" of nature together with everything we inherited from Adam or is it a tendency that is acqured by sinful doing; or both? In my opinion sinful nature does not mean we all have "same" sinful nature. We inherint sinful tendensies, but the outcome of these are different in each-one. I might have tendencies for addictions, but I still do not need to live after my tendencies. timo | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Timo, I like what you're saying and it does seem to agree with Paul in Romans 7:7-8:4. But Paul adds another dimension in Romans 14:19-23, NIV: "Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, becasue his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin." So you see that the new dimension is relationship with other human beings. Just as the New Covenent idea of instant justification and instant sanctification involves relationship between people, so does the New Testament idea of sin involve other people. In other words, if salvation is relational, then sin is also relational. As SDAs we were taught to believe that "sin is the treansgression of the [Ten Commandment] law," which in turn is a "transcript of God's character." Key to this whole concept, of course, was Sabbath-keeping. But Jesus Christ re-centered the law from Sinai to himself, fulfilled the law by "abolishing" the ceremonial aspects (such as circumcision, Sabbath-keeping, distinctions between clean and unclean foods, etc.), re-defined the law by summing it up in the ultimate relational word, love. In other words, under the new covenant, as far as law-keeping is concerned we relate not to a couple of inert tables of stone, but to Jesus Christ as a person himself, and to other people. It is logical, then, that if law-keeping is relational, then law-breaking must be relational too. Hence Paul can write, "Everything that does not come from faith is sin." Notice too that the context of this statement is also relational. Paul says it is not wrong to eat non-kosher foods (such as clam chowder) even though that would be breaking the old covenant law. But he goes on to say that eating that same food WOULD be a sin IF it caused someone else to stumble. Ergo: sin is relational. Agree? Your brother in Christ, Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Well said, Jude! And the real problem with Ellen is that her writings confuse the reality that we can be one with God now and that he saved us IN OUR SINS! (Of course, this confusion is because of what so many have already said: her writings are unbiblical.) | ||
| Susan |
This is an amazing discussion! I'm not sure where to begin. Nothing surprises me with regard to EGW. Not even her sexual orientation. I was talking with a friend today, about the idea that when one is living a life full of the deception of Satan, all areas of their life would be adversely affected. Wouldn't this apply here? I believe homosexuality is a sin. Yes, we are all born with a sinful nature. When we decide to follow Jesus we are to put away our sinful lifestyles. It doesn't mean we lose our sinful tendancies but rather we should flee from sin, confess it regularly, and not live a life of continual sinning. Yes God made us all. The sinful parts are the result of sin. If some people have the urge to commit adultry or molest children they can claim they were born with this urge. Does it make it o.k. because they were born that way? Is it because of circumstances in their past that bring on these sinful tendancies? Possibly yes, but it's still sin and these excuses are just a way of dancing around the issue of sin. We should ALWAYS love the sinner but hate the sin. Jesus never hesitated to love people as well as command them to stop sinning. God has brought many people out of sinful lifestyles of homosexuality, adultry, abusivness, alcoholism, and even murder. If almighty God can bring former Nazi SS guards to salvation (I've been reading one of Corrie ten Boom's books), then He can certainly bring a homosexual out of this sinful way of life. And He can even bring a much better way, His way! I know a little bit about this sinning stuff. Before I was "born again" I was pretty sinful. I partied all the time(drugs,drinking) and had sex outside of marriage. But Christ does something when you submit your life to Him. No, I'm not perfect. And yes, I still struggle with sin. But my old sinful lifestyle ceased. The urges from my past are gone. I'm truly a redeemed sinner. That's the beauty of the gospel. He can transform anyone into a child of the kingdom. God calls us to be His ambassadors. He equips us with the necessary means to shed our sinful lifestyles. Through prayer, Christian support, and a life devoted to Him, anything is possible. "Amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me" A redeemed daughter of the King, Susan | ||
| Colleentinker |
What a great illustration, Susan. We don't excuse heinous crimes by saying people were born with the problem. Sin is Sin. Good to hear from you again! Colleen | ||
| Maryann |
Yes, sin is sin. Why do we always want to put degree's to our sin's? I know I used to really rationalize out the degree's. That's our natural, sinful carnal nature hard at work. Maybe, from our human view point there are degree's from the effects, such as the difference between murder and a white lie. (no pun intended) Jude, thanks for the tip on using a word processing program. I didn't know you could send from there to here. BUT, I will have to get a friend to show me as I really am computer stupid. The first thing I will use is the spell check!, so please ignore some of my spelling. A little testimony...When I left home at 18, I very quickly learned the art of "sailer talk". Over 20 some years of the study of sailer talk perfected it to the point that the sailers themselves would blush deeply! Working construction all these years was the perfect and natural place to carry on. It is the generally accepted lanuage. Funny thing was, it stayed at work and my kids never heard this talk at home. Several times over the years I tried to quit but I might as well have tried to quit breathing. About the time Mom got into the TBN and "word faith" thing, I started to hear Hank Hanagraaff, Charles Stanley, Swindoll, Focus etc. I was getting a twinge or two about my language but that was all. A year later when I was working 12 hour nights on the 1st phase of the new Aladdin here in Las Vegas, listening to alot of christian radio and watching a 42 year old friend in great part to the "word Faith" thing, die of cancer, something happened. The Holy Spirit just removed the sailer talk!!!!!!!!!!! I mean gone!! Even thinking in that language was gone and has been for over a year. Without even saying anything to the guys at work they began to talk less nasty and almost never bounce their joked off me and would make reference to how she "USED" to talk. You know, they like me just as well as before. A funny thing happened New Years Eve. My kids, as I mentioned never heard a foul word from me, and I asked my son to go get something but not to " " it up. He ran down the hall, then put on the brakes and headed back and asked me at the same time as my daughter asked,"did I hear what I think I heard!!!!!!!!!??????????) My chin was bouncing of my knees and I said,"yes". Then I told them that God took the potty mouth away last year and allowed the word to come out now to purge the system and truly begin the millennium clean! Never, never, never under estimate the power of God. I really need to remember that too. Resting in Him.....Maryann |
