| Author | Message | ||
| Lynn W |
Whoa! Looks like I missed out on some serious stuff back there. Been gone for a week. Patti, I missed welcoming you. Welcome aboard. Don't get discouraged. We don't all have to agree - if we did, there'd be nothing to discuss - but Colleen, Jude & the others are very good at reminding us all to "speak the truth in love." Don't be afraid to ask serious questions. I'm still doing that myself. | ||
| Arlan B. |
Hi - first time poster and trying to find my way around. AB. | ||
| Colleentinker |
Welcome, Arlan! We'll be glad to hear from you and help you find your "way around!" | ||
| Colleentinker |
A former Adventist in Las Vegas has asked that if there are any Former Adventists in her area who would like to talk to her, please email her at gogold@quixnet.net She feels alone with no like-minded or like-hearted people nearby. Thanks for your help! | ||
| Plain Patti |
Hi, Arlan. Welcome to FAF! Nice to see a friendly and familiar face! Patti | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Arlan, a quote from William Blake by dint of your welcome: To see a world in a grain of san And a heaven in a wildflower: Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, And eternity in an hour. Jude | ||
| Lynn W |
Hi Arlan, welcome. | ||
| Lowell Lamberton |
Hi, I was teaching at Atlantic Union College when I left Adventism. That was years ago. I've known the Lord now for 16 years. I'm especially interested in ex-Adventists who are still searching as I was for years. This is an awesome service. God bless you for your efforts. | ||
| Plain Patti |
Hi, Lowell, and WELCOME. We are anxious to hear more from you. God bless, Patti | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Welcome, Lowell. I find myself keenly interested in you and your story, especially the apparent disjunct between being an Adventist teacher at AUC and knowing the Lord. Do you mean you didn't know the Lord then? I'm interested because I feel as though I did know the Lord during my decades in Adventism. That's why I "fought the legalistic system" all the time and found myself in hot water almost all the time. Was I fighting YOU during those years? Most anxious to hear more of your story, -Jude | ||
| Lowell Lamberton |
Hi, Jude et. al., I pondered your question about whether you were fighting me--and my ilk. In a sense, yes--in the sense that you were fighting unsaved Adventists who were running things. I was only a young instructor in my early 20s; I wasn't in charge. But there were most certainly many collegues of mine who didn't know the Lord and who were running things. You see, when I left AUC, and Adventism, I became a self-professed agnostic. I lost my way for precisely the same reason so many ex-Adventists have--because I saw the myriad faults in the system, but felt I had no other place to turn. Adventism in my generation had muddied the waters against other choices. Of the many, many ex-Adventists I had gone to school with, I knew none who had left the faith to embrace another faith. In those days many of us simply "threw the baby out with the bath water." And I was--like many others--wasting a great deal of time and energy being bitter--hating the Church for what I had allowed it to do to me. There's not a lot of room for grace and a new faith when bitterness is crowding both out. I'll tell more of my story if you're interested. By the way, why the nomikar that you use? My first M.A. degree was in English Literature, and my main study was Thomas Hardy. Jude the Obscure seems a depressing figure to name oneself after. Obviously, I'm missing somethi | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Whoa, Lowell! Are you one impressive dude! How can I start to respond? I've got to number my responses or I'll get lost in an overgrown thicket of my own sowing. 1. Thomas Hardy indeed! You're the first person to figure out my moniker! (Most people, I think, assume it comes from the Bible. It doesn't, as you alone have noted.) Congratulations! I LOVE Thomas Hardy, depressing as he seems. And I LOVE his character "Jude the Obscure," depressing as he comes across. But there's something so wild, so mystical, so untamable, so immortal, so full of King James Version grandure about him that Hardy's colorful brush strokes so deftly reveal even as they obscure. Reminds me of Jesus' comment that you must remain blind and deaf unless He gives you "eyes to see" and "ears to hear." Hardy was such a master! Had to be inspired. The truth is, the moniker humbles me. 2. Yes, absolutely fascinated with your story. What a find! More, more. 3. Bitterness, hating the church, crowding out grace: All I can say is, as that brilliant "starry starry night" (apologies to Vincent van Gogh) constellation known as Colleen Tinker so often puts it, "God wastes nothing and redeems everything!" Glory, glory to God in the highest and peace on earth, goodwill to YOU, Lowell, beneficiary of God's niagara of grace! 3. The baby and the bathwater: Methinks Adventists think that that particular "baby" is their own self-patented brand of "ark of safety" through whose gloomy door one must enter "before it is forever too late" -- all under the ever-keen eye of the likes of Doug Batchelor or Dwight Nelson or some-such Simonesque "another-gospel" huckster, of course -- never to emerge again alive, or so they dream, misery loving company as it does. And of course they are sooooo wrong! THE BABY IS NONE OTHER THAN JESUS THE CHRIST OF BETHLEHEM newly born into our hearts every morning like the dew on the daisy. (Okay, so that's a mixed metaphor -- so be it.) And the Seventh-day Adventist church is neither His parent nor His guardian. For He alone is God incarnate! How can you "throw out that particular baby with the bathwater" when that particular baby was never in their particular bathwater? This is a classic SDA non sequiter. And since when did the Baby Jesus ever need cleansing in Adventist bathwater? Obviously, one can only throw out their bathwater, and the sooner the better, but better late than never, bathwater being all it really is anyway. Nuf sed about this. Onward. 4. Fighting you? UNLIKELY in the extreme. I was fighting a suffocating, clostrophobogenic system, not its victims. As President John F. Kennedy used to say, "Let me say this about that": Yes, SDAism is a cult. But ONLY WE, refugees from its desperate grasp, Ishmaels salvaged from the savaged and doomed Piquod "escaped alone to tell thee," have the unmitigated standing to say so! Only we. Thus, hail, Lowel, and again, welcome. Your servant in Christ, Jude | ||
| Plain Patti |
Just a little heads up to Jude and Lynn and Colleen, My little friend who was shadowing me sabotaged the EGW forum this afternoon, wiping out all discussion. Thank you for your defense of me and protection from him. I am afraid he is a rather disturbed man. Please pray that I will find guidance on how to deal with him. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Thanks, Patti, for your trust in me (and the others). Will pray for you. Have you given thought to giving that EGW forum a rest for awhile? And remember, be very careful what you put on the Internet, as it could be used against you in court. It is not the same as private correspondence and lacks that legal protection. This is a public forum, as it says on the first page of this Discussion format. I don't think you have crossed the line in this case (by speculating on whether or not another person is "disturbed") because you have not named the person. Just a little friendly advice. I know you mean well. God's grace, Patti. Keep the faith, Jude | ||
| Plain Patti |
Thanks for the advice, Jude. It is not just me that our friend has harassed. It appears he is trying to destroy that forum. Which is so counter-productive according to what he professes to believe. Sigh...... Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Plain Patti |
Dear Jude, You are right, and I will clarify. I believe there are several meanings of the word "disturbed." I am myself quite disturbed by incidents of late. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Lowell |
Hey, Jude (Sorry, I couldn't resist), I wrote a long message a couple of days ago, then inadvertently wiped it out. So, here goes again. My story actually starts several years before my college teaching experience. I was an undergraduate at an SDA college that will remain unnamed. My father, a building contractor, was developing a subdivision near the college--one in which nearly everyone was Adventist. One day a black man made an offer on one of Dad's spec. houses. Immediately, my dad began receiving threatening phone calls--one actually threatened his life. Three days later, the union conference president flew down, bought the house outright to "settle the problem among the bretheren." The house was to be used as a parsonage for the college church pastor, though a nice parsonage already existed. My heart left Adventism at that point. However, it wasn't until several years later that I finally had the guts to break the ties. I had gone through grade school, academy, and college in the Adventist educational system. Most importantly, I had never heard the gospel of grace. In your generation, Jude, Adventists at least give lip service to the concept, to the point where one would have an inkling of its existence. (I'm assuming that you are considerably younger than I; correct me if I'm wrong.) Back then, it was works or hellfire. In 1983, I started attending a small Baptist church. I found the Lord there. The Baptists, by the way, might have some faults, but they really understand the "born again" experience. Because of my academic--and, ironically, religious--background, I was appointed to be a Sunday School teacher. What an astounding experience it was to be teaching from the Bible, just the Bible, without Ellen looking over my shoulder. But you know what? I still had some really bad thought habits. I'd been an agnostic for years, but now that I was a Christian, I kept hearkening back to Adventism. It was the only religious context I really knew. My pastor would say, "Lowell, for pity's sake, quit thinking works. It's grace, man; get with it." Once. in fact, he told me that he was really glad that he'd met me, because I had helped him understand what the early Christian Jews were going through when they first accepted Christ. He even used me as an illustration of that struggle in one of his sermons. He told the congregation, "I've preached on this many times, but knowing Lowell has shown me what an incredible struggle those early Jews must have gone through." He's somewhere in Seattle with another pastorate, probably still using me as an illustration in his sermons. Thanks for your good words. Don't be too impressed with me. The Lord knows how tremendously I've fallen short in many areas of my life. That's what is so wonderful about the gospel of grace, isn't it? I love what you did with the "baby and the bathwater." Man, dude, can you ever milk a metaphor! That's a gift. I also want to make it clear that I truly love the Adventist people. I would be ecstatic to see every Adventist on earth in the Kingdom of Heaven. It has been very important to me to learn that one can hate a religious system without hating the people involved with it. In my own family, I know many Adventists who really do seem to know the Lord. And I love and pray for the many who don't. Please fill me on on the <Deleted> Forum and the person who is sabotaging it. How does one do that electronically? I'm writing this to you here, Jude, rather than seeking out your private e-mail address, hoping that my perceptions and experiences can be edifying to others who read this. I especially have a burden for the Adventist "hangers on." You're still in the Church; but nothing is spiritually going on in your life. You're reading this web site because you're looking, searching as I was years ago. Believe me friend, the Lord doesn't want your works; He just wants you, just as you are. The happiness which that relationship can produce is priceless beyond any human possession. You can be a middle-aged guy like me, acting like you're 25 because every day is a joy, and life is fulfilling and rewarding. As an Adventist, I used to sing "If you want joy, real joy, wonderful joy, let Jesus come into your heart." That was an old "MV chorus" in my day. Trouble was, nobody I knew felt that joy; if they did, they certainly never talked to me about it. It was just something we sang about. Now I do know it, and I'm here to tell you it's awesome. Forgive my long-windedness. God bless, | ||
| Bruce H |
Lowell I know you know the song Amazing Grace. I used to think this was a great prayer before dinner. Now I know what Grace is and I agree it is awesome. Bruce H | ||
| Lowell |
Bruce, I'll bet we could both list dozens of songs and hymns that finally mean something awesome. God bless you, brother |
