| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Ernie, with your inroads into the Evangelical world, maybe you could use the experiences and testimonies of some of us formers. You wrote, "Evangelicals are a bit worried about offending the so-called 'evangelicals' among the Adventists. But the truth of the matter is that Adventism has to be denounced as a cult." I see that there is a tremendous amount of work to be done. I didn't know Evangelicals feel this way. They've had a snow-job done on them. Here's one problem I see: Many Adventist "evangelicals" really do believe in justification by faith. What they don't believe in is sanctification by faith. In other words, they do believe that their past sins are forgiven the moment they accept Christ. But at the arrival of the next sin -- which could occur within nanoseconds of their conversion via a "sinful thought" -- they're back in a pre-justified condition. Then they ask forgiveness for that sinful thought and believe that they are saved all over again. It's a yoyo Christianity. It's a horrible bobbing on the waves: One minute you're up gasping the air of salvation, the next you're beneath the surface breathing the water of sin. So you paddle your nose above the surface and breath in more salvation. What is this if it is not righteousness-by-works all over again? Because it is YOU -- and not Christ -- who are making all the efforts to keep your head above water. This mistaken belief renders it impossible for these SDAs to comprehend Romans 7 & 8. Or the entire book of 1st John, for that matter. It may be justification by faith, but for them it is also sanctification by works. They don't understand that sanctification by works makes justification by faith an utter impossibility. It all -- the entire Christian experience on this earth -- has to be by faith and by faith alone. Sanctification by works is an oxymoron, and an impossibility in any case. This, and not the Sabbath, is, at least in my opinion, the most basic reason why SDAs who call themselves evangelicals -- the "I am of Morrie Venden" variety -- are not fully Christian. And now I hear from you that most Evangelicals think SDAs are truly Christian with the quaint habit of keeping the Sabbath! Boy, do I have a lot to learn! Jude | ||
| Lynn W |
Yeah, unfortunately, Walter Martin did a lot of unintended damage in the 70s. He concluded in his book Kingdom of the Cults (THE authority on cults among Evangelicals) that SDA is not a cult, but a "heterodox" Christianity. Walter Martin was basing his findings on the SDA church of the 70s which took a more moderate stand on everything, including the authority of EGW. As a result of an extensive interview with him, the SDA camp wrote "Questions on Doctrine" which apparently leans toward an evangelical approach. However, many SDAs protested saying that the writers of QOD had "sold them down the river to the evangelicals." Since then official Adventism has discontinued QOD & replaced it with 27FD which reverses all progress Adventism had made toward the gospel & takes them back to the church of the pioneers. | ||
| Allenette |
Well, I have spent the last nearly 30 years, GLADLY rejected by SDA from academy onward. WHAT STARTED IT: A former student sent me a joint in the mail and that's all it took--never had even SEEN one (except in the TEMPERANCE magazine!) until the principal handed me the letter which contained it which I knew nothing about until he handed me THE LETTER--but the gym teacher was trying to make a name for himself as the DRUG CZAR I guess and since there werent any drugs at the academy, well, YEA now there are! Finally they had someone to kick out and show that there WERE NO DRUGS at Sheyenne River Academy. there are also no pupils there since it was SO RUNDOWN that very few (about 100) suckers sent their kids there...now it is part of a farm, and the girls dorm is a pigsty (same as it was when there were humans living there), and the boys dorm is a chicken house. So much for SDA's giving a rats you know what about their kids. But...to be fair....NOW there is a very nice (VERY NICE) academy rebuilt with member's blood, and corrupt conference funding, near Bismarck ND and, I admit to being terribly jealous of those kids who end up there...damn they have NO IDEA what us elders went thru!!!! | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Thanks, Allenette, for the courage to tell your story. I think you'll find a receptive audience for it here on this web site. I've received unfair and hypocritical treatment too at the hands of "the remnant church." -Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Yes, Judeóit's true. The larger Christian community sees Adventists as legitimate evangelicalsóor at least as legitimate Christians with a few unusual variations. The typical tests of cults yield negative results for Adventists: they officially claim Jesus is God, they officially teach the Trinity, they officially assert salvation is by grace through faith alone; they officially claim the Bible is the inspired Word of God and is the source of doctrine. What the Christian community cannot see is how these basic teachings are twisted when they're not in the public eye. The larger community sees well-behaved, nice, friendly, honest Adventists who say they believe in Jesus. Many Christians believe that the former Adventists who say Adventism is a cult cannot be believed because they have something to prove; they wouldn't be FORMER if they were healthy or reasonable. Just under a year ago our pastor mildly "corrected" us when we stated in our Friday night group that Adventists don't really believe the Bible can be read and believed at face value. He asserted that Adventists DO believe the Bible is inspired. Now, ten months later, he understands. He would never "correct" us on that issue today! He is beginning to see how deceptive Adventism is. He is not alone. Most Christians do not believe that Adventists are doctrinally aberrant. The church has done too good a job of sanitizing the doctrines so they look, at face value, as if they are orthodox. And Allenetteóyour comments about boarding academy bring back all my reactions to teaching in one for five years. By the end of those five years, I believed that the only teachers who could stay at a boarding school long-term had to be people who were content not to question or to learn anything that deviated from their status quo. Think about the dormitory phenomenon for a minuteówho in their right mind would allow teenaged boys (or girls, for that matter) to spend the night together for nine months out of the year without adults actually present? It's almost like a big slumber party. How healthy is that? I believe teenagers need to be at home with their parents. God gave us the responsibility of rearing them; we shirk our responsibility when we shuffle them off to live with strangers whom we don't even know. I believe boarding academy creates a lot of problems for kids. It's psychologically unhealthyóeven dangerous. But enough of my soapbox! This subject actually gets me pretty heated! | ||
| Lydell and David |
Here here Colleen! What has always amazed us is that SDA's will send their kids off to academy during the teenage years...those years when they are most aware of husband/wife and man/woman relationships. The kids live 9 months per year with their peers, then get out and married and their marriages quickly fail. Gee, I wonder why? I'm sure it could have nothing at all to do with not having spent any appreciable time around married couples for 4 years. duh Gee, what a clever way to avoid parental responsibility during the toughest years of parenting! | ||
| Lydell and David |
And Jude, since you mentioned Dr. Tazz type mentality. We are reminded of one of the most powerful challenges we can issue to the SDA. "Oh really? YOUR church teaches the Bible only? If you are so confident that this is true, then put that to the test. For one month keep a running tally during your church meetings of the SDA quotes you hear vs. Bible quotes that you hear. We want to hear the results when you are done." All those things about the behavior and attitudes of those in the denomination are true, but not really THE issue of importance. Until their eyes are opened to realize that they are NOT being taught the Bible only and that this matters, then nothing else you say will make a difference. |
