| Author |
Message |
Chyna
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 5:52 pm: |     |
also, as regards to drugs, they are illegal under law. and the bible makes clear that we are to obey the human laws in place to be a good witness of God. which also brings up speeding. I'm a +/- fiver myself.
Romans 13:1-6
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; 4 for it is God's servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience. 6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, busy with this very thing.
yeah, don't evade taxes too :).
love, Chyna |
Maryann
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 8:45 pm: | |
Hi Denise,
How about some stuff from the P-nut gallery?'-)
In some reading while at the funny farm, oops, I mean tree farm, I ran across something interesting.
This is from a theologian named Andrew Murray, 1828-1917. You know, the good ol' days.
Under the title of, "Walking by the Spirit" and the heading, "Crucifying the Flesh," I found this tid bit that I don't think I ever noticed or even heard before.
"They that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh." Men often speak of crucifying the flesh as a thing that has to be done. Scripture always speaks of it as a thing that has been done, an accomplished fact. "Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him." "I have been crucified with Christ." "They that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh." "The cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world."
It seems to me that I remember Paul speaking of continually beating his body and making it his slave in 1 Cor. 9. That seems to be un-related to the crucification of flesh above. It seems to me that if you are a believing, saved by grace, sure of your salvation Christian, everything has been crucified at Calvary.
Seems that all you need to do is claim the victory because of the fact that, you too, were crucified. You HAVE crucified the flesh and all you have to do is act on it;-)
Back to Murray:
"They that are of Christ Jesus" have, in virtue of their accepting the crucified Christ as their life, given up their flesh to that cross which is of the very essence of the person and character of Christ as He now lives in heaven; they "have crucified the flesh with it's passions and lusts."
Have you ever noticed that all those "crucified" text's were in the past tense?
As to the smoking issue. I hate to admit it:):):( but George really out did himself with his advice to you!!!! In fact, I was wondering if someone else was using his password????
Quitting smoking is tuff, I know! If you get grouchy etc., you can still hang out here as Big Bertha will put up with anything!!!;-) Besides, there is Tom's scooter to break both arms on and who can smoke with two broken arms?! te he he he
:):):):)......Maryann |
Valm
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 8:55 pm: | |
Who is BIG BERTHA?
Denise take up crocheting or quilting as it is hard to smoke doing those things and alot less painful than two broken arms.
Valerie |
Maryann
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 9:11 pm: | |
Big Bertha is my BIG GIANT FAT CAT that weighs 25 pounds. She loves to sit on you and snooooor! When she sits on you, you KNOW you are being sat upon! She is sooooo fat that her belly keeps her back feet covered (warm) and pushes against her front feet. When she lays down, her belly spreads like a griddle cake! Ha ha ha ha
Who ever had her before I got her at the pound, de-clawed her. De-clawing causes psycological probems in most cats and she is no exception. As long as she ALWAYS uses her cat box and wants to sleep with me, I don't care how psyco she is;-) |
George
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 10:37 pm: | |
Chyna,
Thank you for your concern. How ever I don't you quite understood what I was saying. If I go against my conscience I am sinning, because I am then doing something that if it were wrong I would have done anyway. I guess the best way to say it is that I am "willing" to do the wrong thing.
If the above is the case then the other side of the coin is too, if I don't think it is wrong then I haven't sinned. This is not to say that I have a licence to do just anything I want, But if after careful consideration I do not see any sin in what I am about to do then it is not a sin for me.
Lets take a look at the body being a temple and how that works in with "drugs." There some things that have been named durgs because of the good they do. Other things that have called drugs because of the bad they do and some of the "bad" drugs have to be taken for a long time for them to do any lasting harm.
Now lets look at some of the things that are sold in "health food" stores. We are finding out that to much of any one vitamin can do a lot of dammage, yet they are legal and are taken even though they do damage to the temple. Are they a sin to take? Few would think so. What about some of the things that are suposed to cure cancer. Some of them are not legal and do damage to the temple, are they consedered a sin to take? Here again few would think so. So what makes "drugs" so much of a sin if they do the same things as the other things mentioned? If one is a sin then they all are, because they all do damage to the temple.
I am not talking about the advisability of taking "any" of these things, just wheather they are sins or not.
Are the "bad" drugs used to escape reality? They can be, but some of them can also be used to reduce stress, which is a good thing. Deep relaxation exercises can reduce stress, this then is also a form of escape from reality. The reality is that we are over worked eather in mind or body when we are stressed.
So what makes one or the other a sin? It must be that some are thought of as sins and there for are. But what about those that don't thing they are sins but just not advisable? For them they are not sins.
For me they are not sins, unadvisable yes, but not sins. Should or would I do them no, but are they sin for me if I did? No. But still unadvisable? Yes.
Make sence? Let me know----George |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 10:50 pm: | |
Maryann,
Thank you for that tid bit from the theologian Andrew Murray. I believe that we 'have' been crucified with our Lord. Now as far as claiming it, I would like to know your defining term for 'claiming'.
Truly, George gave me better advice or suggestion than anyone ever has. It was one I won't forget. And Maryann, brothers are like that, sometimes they can really fool ya! He's a smarter guy than you thought huh. I have two of my own and they come off, or used to when we were talking, with stuff, that would blow me away. I mean their insight astonished me.
Big Bertha may not be able to handle me Maryann. I am not the best person to be around without my nicotine, trust me on this. Even good ole Big Bertha might get put out with me.
Valerie, Big Bertha is the biggest cat I have ever seen! I mean BIG! My cat Daniel would look like a miniature next to Bertha.
As to sticking to crocheting and such,,forget it. I used to teach that stuff and it is the most boring hobby I could think of. I think I will spend the next month cleaning my place and arranging it to look like a real apartment, instead of an office or storehouse..:))
God Bless you both,
Denise
P.S. Cats get weird after declawing them?? :(
I'm getting Daniel declawed next month. But really, how much weirder (is that a word?) can a cat get than Daniel already is??
He looked and looked after I had him neutered. He couldn't find them. Something was wrong with that picture, was the look he kept having as his rear leg was up over his head while he searched..:) Ah, well, still, he must be declawed as his cuddling is out of control and his claws are too. He can't get the claw thing right, no control.
Later gator! |
Chyna
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 11:44 pm: | |
sin is missing the mark, George.
but as i stated above, doing anything illegal is displeasing to God because God place whomever is in authority over you, deliberately, in His plan.
i don't think the issue is about sin, i think the issue is about glorifying God. and how your testimony appears before nonChristians.
Chyna |
Shereen
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 6:47 am: | |
God forgive me, but I can't keep my big mouth shut.
Semantics George! Anyone can talk "around" any issue. The bottom line is drugs, and we know what kind of drugs we speak of, cause pain and hurt to most ppl all over the world. Crime because of drugs, eg. dealing, shooting, prostitution, pornography, murder, and the bi-products of lots of ppl using drugs is adultry, wife/husband/child abuse, neglect of family, depression, mental illness etc.
Now you tell me how God can possibly condone any of the above?!?! You and others may think you can hide behind the cover of "ignorance" but God knows, He is not one to be fooled. He knows the heart and if a child of His is floundering, He will reach out to that child. He will give you wisdom to know the difference, He will guide you. I believe it is a great sin to choose ignorance as an excuse or to close your eyes, heart and mind to the truth. I believe that anyone with any little grain of common sense can see through every bit of nonsense being relayed here.
I have to learn not to take it so personally. I have to realize that no matter what is said, God KNOWS. We cannot fool God or if you really are honest, you cannot even fool yourself for too long. Just remember, when you say these things, there are ppl out there reading this that will use bits and pieces of what you say and add their own thoughts and find wonderful excuses to ruin their lives and the lives of all around them. After all, they did hear it on FAFF and these are "Christian ppl who have had lots of communication with the Lord and they can't possibly be wrong now can they"
Shereen |
Max
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 7:18 am: | |
Shereen,
You can rest assured that (1) this website has
been dedicated to God and God's truth and (2)
Richard, Colleen and myself will NOT allow it
to be viewed as giving license to any kind of
destructive behavior, including drug and
alcohol abuse.
Many things have been deleted already and,
I'm sure, will be again if the situation warrants.
Meanwhile, have faith in us, won't you?
Praising God for you and your witness,
Shereen,
Max of the Cross |
Valm
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 7:19 am: | |
BRAVO!!!!!! I am so happy the voice of balance even if she thinks her mouth is big is back!!!!!
God Bless you Shereen. Valerie |
Shereen
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 7:48 am: | |
Max,
I didn't realize things were deleted. Thank you for letting me know this. I do have faith in FAFF but am scared of my own "big mouth". As I said before, I am very passionate about certain things and can't stop myself sometimes, from "speaking out". I don't want to hurt anyone, least of all George. I don't have the sweet disposition that a person needs to lead ppl and I am so afraid that I sound like one of those ladies in church who used to sit in judgement and wouldn't tolerate anything. I might sound intolerant when, in fact, when I type these things, it is usually with tears in my eyes.
I wish I could get across how deeply I feel about this subject and a couple others. I can just see God weeping over innocent ppl getting hurt.
Shereen |
Max
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 7:56 am: | |
Shereen, a sovereign God is in utter control.
No demon can fly out of the Abyss unless an
angel comes down from heaven with a key
and a specific God-assigned mission for it to
perform. (Read Revelation without
White-tinted glasses.)
Max of the Cross |
Valm
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 8:16 am: | |
Shereen, You are sweeter than you think. Your voice is the voice of passion and of deep feelings. Your voice is the voice of hurting for those you love and the committment to prevent others from being devastated themselves. I AM SO HAPPY you are with us. Valerie |
George
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 9:03 am: | |
Shereen,
This whole thing got started with the posting of a few Bible verses that seem to back up a thought I had some 10 years ago. If you will notice I asked if I was right or not.
If you will reread what I wrote you will see that at no time have I ever said that Drugs were a good thing to do, and if you will take an honest look at it I think you will see that. I am just saying that for me and me only they would not be a sin, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT PAUL IN ROM. 14 SAYS TO ME.
As far as people taking bits and pieces of what I say nd turning it into what ever they want, I feel I am in good company, that is what people are and have been doing for thousands of years with the Bible.
If Rom 14 says that what is a sin for me may not be a sin for you and the other way around what kind of things does that apply to? Does it list all the things it is refering to? I didn't see that, so I MUST believe then, that it applys to EVERYTHING. Put aside the issue of drugs for a moment, and see if you can agree with what I just wrote. Be honest and look at only what Rom 14 says. If you can show me from that chapter that I have misunderstood it and show me what it is really saying I will change my tune.
I know very well what Drugs and drinking can do. I saw what a drunk parent did to my ex-wife, I saw what it did to her, I saw what it did to most of the people in the little town where we lived, I saw what it did to the people that came to AA meetings, I listened to thier stories and the one thing they all had in common was that the first drink set them free. I saw what it did to my sargent in the Army, I saw what it did to a lot of the guys in the army, and even seeing all this if I read Rom 14 right it says that drugs and drinking may be a sin for one and not another. If that is what it says then inspite of all the destruction I have seen it cuse and all the pain it has caused you and yours, it is a sin for some and not others. That is not what I say it is what Paul says.
I chalenge you to show me where I am wrong from the Bible.
In the quest of knowledge---George |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 2:47 pm: | |
Shereen,
WELCOME BACK! :))
I'm glad to see your passion in this arena. I happen to agree with you that drugs and alcohol causes so much damage that to condone it, seems ludicrous. Although, I'm not so convinced with marijuana. Not that I smoke it as I am drug free but I know many that do. However, I have noticed that even this seemingly harmless drug slows the thinking down and what must it do to the spiritual aspects of oneself? I don't know the answer to that. Only the person that does the drug can know to what extent it affects them. Drugs are a frightening thing, they have killed many due to the things you have in your posts.
But, there is a brain in everyone and hopefully people will use that God given brain and so not indulge in the use of drugs. Personally, I have seen and experienced their effects and there is nothing good to say about them. These are my thoughts from my experiences.
Hopefully, although we are freemen and women, we will realize that drugs can and will destroy ones life. Alcohol on the otherhand, takes it's time. It's insidious as ever and if one is genetically wired for alcoholism, they don't necessarily know about it until it's too late and they are hopelessly hooked. Like I was. Alcohol to someone that is not an alcoholic can be a good thing if taken as a single drink and only occasionally. This is my opinion. However, I have witnessed too many people that take that drink, then hop in the car, thinking they are sober, and end up wrecking. So avoiding driving, even after only one drink is the only way in my opinion. The Bible does allow us alcohol, but in that freedom, like Shereen, I must say that too many abuse that freedom and ruin not only their lives but everyone around them as well.
Alcohol started out friendly enough with me but it soon became my worst nightmare. The thought I think now, in looking back, as to why I took that first drink, is crazy. Because my mother was killed by a drunk driver just 4 months after my dad died of lung cancer. I started smoking at age 10 and drinking, along with valium, became the family way of treating me for my trauma of losing both parents. Unfortunately, I became hooked to both at a very young age. This is the caution I will put here, that is to please please, if you are going to use liberty, first make sure that there is no history of alcoholism. If there is, I would caution you to not drink. If you decide to take a drink and risk it, then realize that you are finding yourself drunk more than you want, quit. I know if I had children, I would tell them that not only I was an alcholic but their grandparents were too. Not only would I tell them that but I would tell them of some of the jail time or institutions and other things where alcohol put me.
Today, there is a whole lot more knowledge when it comes to alcohol than any other time in my life. And although I can look back and say to myself, 'well, if I'd known this, I would never have picked up that first drink', I'm not so sure that would be true. I can only say, that because of God Almighty, I am alive today and Sober today. To think of taking one drink is insanity for me and to drink that one drink, it is death.
Drugs and alcohol do destroy lives. But not everyone that takes a drink now and then will be destroyed. Simply, it is up to the individual to know their own bodies and limits.
Another thing that a theological writer wrote, sticks in my mind. He states that drugs are what is meant by sorcery in the Bible. I don't know how true that is or isn't but I can get the book out and find the original greek or hebrew words he uses. If it is true, then condoning drugs is out of the question.
And as George has so adequately stated, Romans 14, gives us a good rule of thumb as to the sin factor that may or may not be involved. Sin or no sin, be careful and pray for wisdom.
God Bless all,
Denise |
Max
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 4:38 pm: | |
Denise,
Good post.
You wrote, ^^The Bible does allow us alcohol,
but in that freedom, like Shereen, I must say
that too many abuse that freedom and ruin not
only their lives but everyone around them as
well.^^
I would only add my opinion: Those who are
abusing alcohol are NOT exercising their
freedom in Christ. It doesn't work that way. For
if you are free in Christ, you are free indeed!
And people who abuse alcohol are anything
BUT free! |
Valm
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 4:48 pm: | |
Very well said Max. Valerie |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 4:59 pm: | |
Well stated Max. Infact being a slave to any substance is a ball and chain life. Not freedom. Even my cigarettes have put on me a ball and chain. Soon it will be gone. Praise the Lord!
God Bless,
Denise |
George
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 6:51 pm: | |
Denise,Max, Shereen and Val,
I was just wondering in any of you think I condone the use of drugs etc.
George |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 7:13 pm: | |
Hello George,
I don't believe you do. Infact, I thought you had stated that in some other post. I recall your asking about Romans 14 and how that applies to our life. Then you gave some examples. But I do not believe that you condone the using of drugs. This was my take on this situation.
God Bless you,
Denise |
Valm
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 7:54 pm: | |
George, I am happy that you do not for your own health and safety.
You sound very concerned that you may have done damage to others by being misunderstood. I think many positive things came from this discussion.
Take good care.
Valerie |
George
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 10:10 pm: | |
Denise and Valeerie,
Thanks for answering, I just wanted to be sure I came across right.
George |
Maryann
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 10:18 pm: | |
Hey Denise,
You said:
"P.S. Cats get weird after declawing them?? :(
I'm getting Daniel declawed next month. But really, how much weirder (is that a word?) can a cat get than Daniel already is??"
PLEASE DON'T DO THAT!!:-[[[[[[
There are these neat little plastic/rubber covers that go on cat claws! They come in some great colors! Daniel would look great in pink or purple, that way he would understand why he's been looking for HIS missing body parts and can't find them. These covers keep them from damaging furniture etc.
As to de-clawing.....For y'all that don't know what de-clawing entails, here goes.
De-clawing in NOT...NOT...NOT...simply pulling the claws! It is actually AMPUTATING each "finger" at the first joint!!!!!!
Picture having ALL your fingers amputated!!:-[[
Hitting your finger with a hammer real hard can hurt for several years. Amputations hurt for years and you experience itchy or painful finger/toe tips and can't itch them as they are NOT there.
A de-clawed cat has all this amputation pain for a LONG time. It is worse on a male cat. Due to the the 10 amputations, the paws are just to sore to dig a hole in their cat box to do their business and they develope the habit of spraying the wall or whatever!!!
You can understand now why de-clawed cats are pysco!!! The are in pain!!
Maryann |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 10:37 pm: | |
Maryann,
PINK OR PURPLE!!?? I should say NOT! Not for my Daniel-san. Now blue maybe..:)
But, I have question now. Just how clean can he remain with these jobbers on him? It seems to me that if her were to wear rubber dillys over his paws, and then went in to do his business, he would pull some of the sand-box source out with him. I can't think about sand-box source spreading throughout my house! And too, can't cats get these rubber things off of them? How tight do they fit? How far up the paw do they go? Just where in the world did you here of these new fangled gadgets? Will they not irritate my cat to no end? De-clawing my Daniel-san seems harsh but in the long run, it seems to me the better route. Those jobbers that are on him continually might drive him berserk! Oh yes and keep in mind that this cat of mine is a nuzzler. At night, he gets into my hair and paws and all nestles there. Do I want to be thinking of sand-box particles during these precious moments? That's a negative. 10-4?
Thanks for the answers in advance,
God Bless,
Denise |
Shereen
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 5:56 am: | |
Watch and listen carefully
The man whispered, "God, speak to me" and a meadowlark sang. But, the man did
not hear. So the man yelled "God, speak to me" And, the thunder rolled across the
sky.
But, the man did not listen. The man looked around and said, "God let me see you."
And a star Shined brightly. But the man did not notice. And, the man shouted,
"God show me a miracle" And, a life was born.
But, the man did not know. So the man cried out in despair, "Touch me God, and
let me know you are here" Whereupon, God reached down and touched the man.
But, the man brushed the butterfly away and walked on.
Don't miss out on a blessing because it isn't packaged the way that you expect. |
Valm
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 6:06 am: | |
Amen! Valerie |
Max
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 11:02 am: | |
Sheren, that was beautiful. Did you compose
it? |
Shereen
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 12:50 pm: | |
Max,
No, my sister sent it to me. I thought it was so nice I had to share. |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 4:15 pm: | |
Hello Shereen,
I have read both of those beautiful poems that you put up and really needed to hear them. Thank you and keep em coming. I need this sort of input.
God Bless you,
Denise |
|
