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Still SDA
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynn W: You're pretty ha-ha! Sorry, I don't have those 3 books & don't have a list at this time.

Having a bonfire is tempting.
Still SDA
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynn W: You're pretty ha-ha! Sorry, I don't have those 3 books & don't have a list at this time.

Having a bonfire is tempting. I'm still angry.
Dennis J. Fischer
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2000 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After being third generation Seventh-day Adventists for over forty years, my wife(Sylvia) and I recently requested our names to be taken off the membership records of the College View SDA Church here in Lincoln, Nebraska. We felt it was dishonest, on our part, to claim that we are SDA's when we no longer believe their major doctrines.

My wife spent part of her childhood in Baghdad, Iraq with her missionary parents. She was baptized in the Jordan River during one of her trips to the Holy Land. She also visited
the tomb of King Tut in Egypt.

I have served the denomination as a literature evangelist, credentialed missionary, and licensed minister in my younger days. We have owned a family business here in Lincoln for nearly twenty years. We are most grateful for discovering New Covenant Christianity. We dearly love the Adventist people. They will always be in our hearts and prayers. (more details later)
Dennis J. Fischer
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

REGARDING OUR EXTENSIVE SDA LIBRARY:

Many people have asked us why we keep all these books. First of all, Adventism is our spiritual heritage; we need to always be aware of the counterpart and history of our faith. This enables us to share the wonderful gospel of Jesus Christ with those we once walked with spiritually.

Secondly, probably least significant, is that I love books--even those I may not endorse or believe in. We need a balanced library to grew intellectually and spiritually.
Cas
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dennis,
I was wondering what caused you to first doubt your Adventist beliefs? What action did you take to find out the truth?
I have spent about 3 years now gathering information from the Internet, books, lots of study and prayer.
You seem to have a healthy outlook on your past, without bitterness.
God Bless You!
Lynn W
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I couldn't help but notice that "bitterness" is the catch-all phrase that Adventists automatically label all ex-Ads, regardless of the truth. They don't bother to check with the individuals. Yes, most go through a short time of anger when they first learn the truth. Who can blame them? If someone suddenly found out their spouse has been lying to them for many years, who wouldn't be bitter? But the anger is at the church, not the SDA people. Just like a wife who's angry at a cheating husband, but why would she be mad at the children? Most soon get over it and, out of love for their SDA friends & relatives, desire to share the truth with them. I've heard "bitterness" leveled at ex-Ads without fail. Does anyone know if this is something they are all taught or trained to say?
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think they are denying their own unconscious rage buried deep within them and are projecting it by unconscious purging: venting on easy targets.
Dennis J. Fischer
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cas,

You seem to be doing the right thing to determine God's truth exclusively from His Word. When we read the Bible, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we really take a risk. We never know what the Lord may teach us when we accept His direction in our lives.

In our personal Christian journeys, my wife and I are avid readers also. Our first disappointment occurred when we discovered that Ellen White's visions and writings were not credible nor "direct from the throne of God." You see, I not only believed and read Ellen White's writings, I sold them door-to-door for a living for several years. Furthermore, I was a publishing leader as well. Also, I am in the midst of writing a book on the fiscal directives of contemporary Adventism. For example, there is no New Testament mandate for tithing. There never was such a thing as a "monetary" tithe. Jews today are wise in knowing that, without the sacrificial system in place, tithing is impossible. . When a person determines that one doctrine is not Biblical, it creates concern that the other ones may not pass close scrutiny as well. After several years of prayerfully studying and researching various doctrines, we felt deceived, misled, spiritually abused, and even cultish. The gospel of Jesus Christ PLUS anything else is not the gospel anymore. Adventists have a difficult time accepting salvation as a FREE gift from Jesus. They feel that somehow, someway, by trying hard to adhere to both the Old and New Covenants, they can assist in their own salvation by their works. The problem is that we can never be good enough to be saved. We truly need a Savior! Thank God we have a Substitute that lived the Law perfectly for us. I used to preach many perfectionist-type sermons(with quotes from COL, page 69). I trust the Lord has forgiven me. Keep up your search for truth, Cas! Salvation is a very personal matter. After we discovered authentic New Covenant Christianity, we often wondered how we could have missed something as wonderful and simple as the Gospel. We rejoice in being free from a closed theology-closed mind paradigm.
Maryann
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dennis,

I have been wanting to bring up the "tithing" issue. I now believe that instead of squeezing out our token 10% of "our" money so righteously, we should intead ask, "how much of God's 100% should I keep for myself?" I, personally have failed miserably in this area (among others)! Had I understood that principle many years ago, I believe my life would have gone another direction. Oh well, I'm where I'm at now and God knows all about it 'cause he put me here for "training", ouch!

Maryann
Mary
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 5:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello..
My name is Mary, and I have just discovered this link on this webpage. I belong to the SDA church, was raised in a mehodist church, simply because it was in walking distance, first joined a nazarene church, then attended a Revelation Seminar given by Clay Peck in Missouri in 1985 and joined the SDA shortly after. For the last several years I have begun having so many doubts. So many little things that just don't seem quite right, but thought it must be me. Please pray for me as I struggle with decisions about things I was taught. I cannot discuss this with any one in the church. I tried and they think I am 'lost', and would brand me as a heretic. I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and mind, and Him only do I want to please.
Yours, in Christ
mary
Lydell
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 5:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and >mind, and Him only do I want to please.
Welcome Mary. You have already seen what the first step is. Our Lord can be trusted to lead you to all truth. Try asking Him to help you set aside all that you have been taught so you can go at the Bible with new eyes to literally let it say what it says. He's got such wonderful things to show you!
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 7:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Mary,

I'm almost afraid to even talk to you after last night's discussion. You're in tender, loving hands with Lydell. At least I can testify to that.

God bless your search,

Jude
Bruce H
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Mary

You are not alone in your questions feel free to
ask.

By the way Clay Peck has since left the Adventist
Church because of the Gospel. He has written a
great book on the covenants. It has a tape set
that goes with it If you would like a set Let
Coleen or Richard know that you would like it and
I will send it to you.

Clay Peck church is Grace Place and you can
contact him at
Grace Place P.O. Box 373, Berthoud CO. 80513
Phone 1 970- 532-9886


Bruce Heinrich

B
mary todd
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to each of you. Yes, I have discovered Clay Peck's e-mail addy but have not contacted him as yet. I have been reading his sermons on this webpage, and they are so very good. But he also was so good teaching the Revelation Seminar. He convinced me into thinking the Holy Spirit was convicting me. I know at the time he thought he was doing the right thing, and so did I. And for 3 or 4 years I was so sure the SDA church was the remnant Church, but the more I studied the bible, the more "come out of her my people" seemed to apply to me. I have not completely left the church, yet, and I hate myself for being so wishy-washy. I quit attending for about 6 months, but there is no where else for me to go, so I went back. But I feel so uncomfortable. Please excuse me for whining, but I have no one else to talk to about it. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks again for your support.
mary
Lynn W
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary, Welcome. The Lord be with you.
Perhaps a good place to start is to share some of your most immediate concerns and questions. Perhaps we can explore them together. That's mostly what goes on here. No final authority except the Bible. Most issues have been addressed on here and you'll learn a lot by reading the archives, but we can always reopen subjects with the fresh new perspective you'll bring. Challenge us. Make us study.
Joni
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary,
I Pray that you will be consistant in reading God's Word. It is life. It is truth. It is healing.
As you read your Bible notice the contrast in the life of Jesus and the apostles, to the SDA church.
Notice the focus. It is life in Christ. Not life in the law. It is love. It is walking in the Spirit. It is peace and joy. Sometimes pain as we realize we cannot do it by ourselves. We cannot make ourselves good. We cannot keep the law as the Adventists say.

2Tim. 3:16 says "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Reproof = shows us where we are wrong. Everything should measure up to God's word.

Correction = Shows where we are wrong and makes it right. Ex. Be anxious for nothing. It is wrong to be anxious, but in everything by prayer and supplication, the answer to being anxious, will correct it. The power of healing comes in correction.

Instruction in righteousness = Shows us how. Healing begins when we do what God says. The Word makes us complete.

Adequate = A picture of a ship equipped for voyage, lacking nothing. We lack nothing with God's word.

Make God's Word and Jesus Christ yours. I will be praying for you. Colossians 1:9-12
Joni
Maya
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have just read all the posts on Puzzled initiated by Kristine and would like to add that my being born into a third generation sda home I can understand Kristines not understanding where us FAFs are coming from. In many places local pastors have led their congregations into a more gospel experience and that seems to be OK with the powers that be if they don't go too far. But here there is duplicity because if you want to get the nitty gritty bottom line of sda doctrine look at the list of topics of any evangelistic series any place and you will see the "true" doctrine upon which there is no give. True, these modern public evangelist like Mark Finley and Dwight Nelson will talk gospel and try to sound very Christ oriented but you will see that they have to present the investigative judgement and all the "pillers of the faith" doctrine dear to adventism. There is no give, ever, here.

Years ago when I was a teenager, I just turned 70, after our pastor had preached on end time events and our need to be "perfect" in character I asked him how people who died before the second coming and had apparently not reached this perfection how they could be saved. That it would not be fair to let them in heaven without the struggle the translated ones would have to go through. I said I saw how the translated ones could be saved because they would overcome and be perfect in charater but it was a mystery to me how those who died before could make it. I was worried because I knew I would never be that good. Now all of that came out of the "old Seventh-day Adventist. I know because I experienced it. About six years ago a good friend lent me "Judged by the Gospel" by Robert Brinsmead. It opened my eyes to the fact that the "Bible" based doctrines I had believed all my life really were not substantiated by scripture and for the first time salvation seemed possible, something I had never found in the 43 years working for the church and being a faithful tithe paying member all my life. I love my SDA friends and family but being so involved in the church I have no desire to be a member of any denomination. We do have fellowship with other Christians and have come to know that God has a Church but not with any man given name attached to it. God bless all, Dale Collins
Plain Patti
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Dale,

As Jesus said to Peter:

Blessed art thou...for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Grace and peace,
Patti
B. Morgan
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Y'all
I am glad that I have found you. this site has been a blessing to me. so many of my questions have been answered. The sweetest thing is that it is wonderful to have people express the very feeling I have felt in the Advent ist church for YEARS. God directed me-being computer ignorant and all- to this site.
I have been attending a nondemoninational church since last January 1999. I have not committed to membership yet. Recently though, I have been feeling a bit angry about the lies the church has fed me over the last twenty years. I feel like a child who has been violated in the worst way, and even though she is placed in a loving christian home with a daddy who is tender and loves her immensely, she is repulsed by his tender touch of affection.

Could you please help. Please pray for me. It is like I am not free from religious stronghold. No, I am not confused about leaving the sda church. Your posts have affirmed me. It is wonderful to know that my imagination was not wryly. Before I found your site, I did not know there were former adventist in such a vast majority who love the lord and the gospel. I felt like a fish floundering up stream against rough waters.

You guys have a wonderful ministry. I appreciate the love, and sweet that come flowing through cyber space.
God Bless you all,
B. Morgan
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bless you, B. Morgan,

Hope you'll feel free to share with us, and also to tell others about this website.

Jude

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