| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
YOU DECIDE: CAN DIRK ANDERSON PULL IT OFF? Pull what off? Third-generation SDA Dirk Anderson has written a 96-page book titled WHITE OUT. ìThe purpose of this book,î he writes in the Introduction, ìis to peel back the glossy exterior painted by Adventist historians and take a look at he real Ellen White.î WHITE OUT will try to convince you that: 1. EGW set additional dates for Christís return ìafter the Great Disappointment of 1844.î 2. EGW, while in vision, related to fellow Adventists ìhow the door of salvation for sinners has been shut forever.î 3. ìDamaging portions of Mrs. Whiteís [original] writings were quietly removedî from later publications as though they had never existed. 4. ìAdherents of Ellen White have been very busy over the years editing, removing, deleting, and polishing her writings to cover up her ìfalse teachings.î 5. At least one entire book of hers ìmagically vanished into the mist of history,î just as though it had never existed. MY TASK: To bring his arguments to you in a chapter-by-chapter review Andersonís 1999 book WHITE OUT. YOUR TASK (should you choose to accept it): *To decide for yourself ìwhatís soî and ìwhat's not.î *To vote THUMBS UP or THUMBS DOWN on whether Dirk Anderson "convinced" or "failed to convince" you. * To post your vote on this website. Fair enough? Letís begin with my next post. Seeking the truth, I am your servant, Jude | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Jude, Because of the addictive nature of this "machine" I try to stay on this site. I have strayed to Dirk Andersons site a few times and found the "Israel Dammon Incident" very interesting and the feature book, "National Sunday Law: Fact or Fiction very informative. The "White Out" sounds interesting. Get after it! I am confussed about who he is and haven't taken the time to investigate. Could you give a 2 liner as to what he's about in general? Hey, I sure did miss all that good company I was around for church last week!? Waiting for your next post.....Maryann | ||
| Lynn W |
I'm confused myself. The entire Dirk Anderson web-site (and apparently this book) is to refute EGW, but when writing on the forum, he defends her writings and has said that "The Desire of Ages" is the best book ever written on the life of Christ. | ||
| Richard Tinker |
I deleted three posts because they were outside the scope of this forum. I recently read Dirk's book--he certainly doesn't support EGW. | ||
| Steve |
Hi All, For me, I've conferred with Elmer Fudd. He says, Wast one out, turn of the White. Steve | ||
| Plain Patti |
Dirk Anderson set out to defend Ellen White, against the assaults of people like Walter Rea and Roland Numbers. Ultimately, after intense research, he realized that they were right, and built this website as a source of study for those who still buy into the "White Lie." | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
All, I still plan to review "White Out," but much has intervened since I introduced this Discussion here, most importantly a disconnect from the Internet that lasted two weeks. Have patience with me. | ||
| Shane |
Have you got around to reviewing "White Out" yet? | ||
| Max |
No, not yet. I've read it and have the review formulated in mind - but I haven't had access to the Internet of late. But .... later. -Max = Jude | ||
| Breezy |
Max! Hi! Miss you! Wendy | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, You have really been missed by lots of the people! ;-)) Maryann | ||
| Colleentinker |
Hi Breezy and Maryann, I'm sitting at the Tinker's right now, using the iMac of Ray of Laser Light while Richard and Collene are off visiting somewhere. If you're coming here next weekend, Maryann, then know that Gary Inrig will NOT be preaching at Trinity. He's off experiencing his new grandbaby being birthed and preaching at some counselor's retreat in Canada. Sure miss his sermons. Well, I'm off to post some more. God's grace to you all, Max | ||
| Colleentinker |
Oops, the above post wasn't written by Colleen. How do you know? She wouldn't have made so many spelling errors. (How was I to know RLL's machine was defaulted to Colleentinker? Huh? How?) Max | ||
| Max |
Oops, did it again! Sigh. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Pseudo Colleen, You had me going for a minute or are a pseudo Big Max? Hee hee hee haw! :-)) Hi Max........I'm bringing Mom along soooooo, have yo' self well studied. I am really looking forward to her meeting all of you. I somehow am very optimistic about the whole thing and her at least going home with a few serious questions that she will have to write to Doug Batchlor for the answers to! Always smiling.....Maryann | ||
| Joni |
Hi Maryann, I hope you have a nice visit to the Redlands. My Mother in law sent me videos of Doug Batchlor, she copies them from the ABN, or whatever it is called. I watched one and wanted to puke. No offense to anyone. He was answering questions and explaining how you have to give up all your vices, sins, etc before joining the Church. It made me sick. What about Belief in Jesus and trusting that He will lead you to give up whatever it is you need to give up???? What about trusting the Holy Spirit???? Anyway, have a nice trip. Looking forward to hearing your posts. Hi Max. Good to see you back!! God Bless you. Joni | ||
| Djconklin |
Joni, >He was answering questions and explaining how you have to give up all your vices, sins, etc before joining the Church. Hmm, I listen to Doug Batchelor frequently and I have never heard him say anything like that--which "episode" (or whatever you call it) were you watching? | ||
| Breezy |
Dj and Joni, Doug Batchelor is the preacher that is the impetus behind my husband giving his heart to Jesus and being baptized. He was baptized into the Adventist church. He was baptized with all four pastors and the congregation knowing that he smokes. They simply have been praying that he would be freed of this. That was two years ago. No one has sat in judgement on him. No one has asked him to withdraw his membership, or cesured him. Do you think that if my husband(who has watched every Doug Batchelor in existense) would have joined the Adventist church in particular if that was what he heard Doug preaching. We met Doug in Walla Walla and my husband told him he wanted to study for the ministry. Doug was nothing but encouraging. My husband was in theology classes and still smoking. Now, I am sure they would ask that he quit before progressing very far, my point is simply that I don't see where you could get your interpretation of Doug's message Joni. I have never heard him say that. All he says is that Christ is the ONLY one who can give us the victory over our prevailing sins. God Bless, Wendy | ||
| Colleentinker |
Wendy, you are absolutely right: Christ is the ONLY one who can give us the victory over our prevailing sins. The pastors of your church who baptized your husband are wonderful and truly unusual. The fact is that the church requires people to give up smoking before baptism. On July 3 the delegates to the GC in Toronto approved ammendments to the baptisimal vow. Before being baptized the candidate must publicly agree to 13 doctrines. Number 10 reads thus: "Do you believe that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and will you honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful; abstaining from all unclean foods; from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in narcotics or other drugs?" (Quoted from Adventist Review, July 7, 2000, p. 11) Your husband has been blessed to be so nurtured. God has been with him and you. The church, however, requires that people give up tobacco, unclean meat, and alcohol before baptism. I believe that Doug Batchelor does preach grace. I also believe that SDA evangelists teach confusing messages which distill to this point: "We're saved by grace, BUTÖ" An Adventist evangelist cannot avoid presenting the 13 doctrines required for baptism. He couldn't continue to receive his paycheck if he didn't teach the Adventist doctrines. But he can also preach grace. The Holy Spirit can help people hear the grace part if they're ready to believe. But it's a mixed message. Praise God for graceófor you, for your husband, for us all! Colleen | ||
| Breezy |
Colleen, Hi, thanks. If you go to Doug's website Amazing Facts you will find a book written by Joe Crews about victory over sin, which is where I got my material. It is very grace filled and not contradictory at all. I agree it is unusual that people have been so gracious toward my husband. But if you look at his life, it is just another in a long string of miracles that proves out God has a major plan for his life. We could write a book, there are that many. We got Toby back today praise the Lord!!! The humane society got him. We are very grateful to the Lord for preserving him. Thanks for your prayers. God Bless, Wendy | ||
| Joni |
DJConklin and Wendy, It was in a tape that my Mother in Law sent me. It was at some meetings she taped off the TV. It was in the question and answer period. It really did make me sick. I mean my stomach turned and I felt so bad. Probably because he did sound so good in what he was saying and then he added to the Gospel by saying that this person who asked the question had to give up this stuff before he gets baptized. And the man probably believed him. I am sorry if I offended you, but I just do not think that we should add to the Gospel. I gave up being the Holy Spirit a long time ago. My 25 year old son thinks Doug is great because of his story of his beginnings, when he was living in the cave and reading the Bible. He is a good speaker and has a wonderful testimony. I just do not like the SDA way. I am Sorry I should not have said what I did, I do not like to harm people, I only want people to know that Jesus is a wonderful Savior and that He loves us so much we can come to Him just as we are. He will take us, and show us Grace and Peace that we never knew and He has a wonderful way of changing us into "Saints" from within instead of without. Joni | ||
| Dennis |
I recently read Dirk Anderson's new book WHITE OUT. The foreword is by none other than Ellen G. White extolling the virtues of absolute honesty and/or integrity. This small 96-page book contains 118 endnotes for reference. This well-written book depicts EGWs predictions of the Second Coming of Jesus as late as 1851. It documents how James White edited and deleted his wife's visionary experiences--especially those writings that proved to be erroneous. One chapter deals with the trial of Israel Dammon. Ellen White's view of this "hippy" party are remarkably different from sworn court testimony. For example, her writings issuing a call to celibacy were safely tucked away in a vault until released in the 1980s. Furthermore, the book depicts Ellen White's disappointing, hectic beginnings in the Northeast. It shows how the move to Michigan gave her a new lease on life with Sea Captain Joseph Bates financing her cause(albeit that he was deceived into it by her visioning). The book also reveals how Ellen White used sources from health reformers and even the Apocrypha to embellish various hoax accounts. Another great book to read is titled WHITE WASH by Sydney Cleveland. This 233-page book uncovers further the myths of Ellenology. It also contains some interesting, rare photographs. Both books should have a place in your library. Dennis J. Fischer |
