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Archive through July 29, 1999BRUCE H7-29-99  1:31 pm
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maggieb
Posted on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point about Paul, Bruce. And, paradoxically, to that I would add, remember that Moses, as representative of the Law, never entered the Promised Land of rest.

Maggie
Susan (Susan)
Posted on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God is SO good! It's wonderful to share with all of you. This is the most therapeutic thing I've done since I left adventism. I'm praying everyday for all of you and I truly appreciate the love and support given by you guys.

I'm glad to be a Christian, but I never realized that I had so much pain and hurt beneath the surface. I guess that could be related to some problems I'm facing now (emotional and physical). It's harmful to keep so much inside for so many years. But it feels like there's no one that will understand. That's why I'm so happy I found this site! I know we have to turn it over to God, and forgive but I think I was pretending for so many years. I was acting like a normal Christian. But I never aknowledged my spiritually abusive past. This has left painful scars that need time to heal. I'm trying so hard to forgive my mom, but the truth is I don't understand. How could she be so deceived? How could she hurt us so much? I'm a new mother, and the love I feel for my child is so overwhelming it makes me want to cry. I want her to know how special she is, as a child of God. I want her to know how much He loves her and that He created her as a precious gift to her father and me. That there is nothing she can do to be more wonderful to us, and God! Wow, if only my parents could have taught me some of that. I know, I have the perfect loving Father now, but it doesn't erase the hurt.(not yet)

Did any of you grow up in a perfectionist environment? I always felt like appearances were EVERYTHING! It's difficult to live up to all those rules, isn't it? Also, why do adventists dress up so much for church? I'm sure it's that way at other (non-SDA)churches, but the ones we've belonged to have been much more relaxed.

Love to hear what any of you think! Susan
Morgan
Posted on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, how wonderful that your daughter has helped you feel more connected to God's love. The amazing thing I'm learning is that the pain of all those past hurts and abuses becomes the foundation of unexpected insight and strength and compassion and discernment. God actaully redeems our pain, I'm learning, just like he redeems our failures and wipes the shame from our hearts. It sometimes makes me cry when I realize how he is transforming me a little bit at a time.

I certainly responded to your mentioning a perfectionistic environment! Appearances were EVERYTHING! I can remember my mom saying, "Don't ever do anything that would besmirch the family name!" That pretty much included anything you could think of, from getting into any sort of trouble at school to wearing your skirt an inch too short to not acting proper and grown-up around adults to not having good-quality clothing even if you didn't have very much of it to--well, you name it.

What I didn't know until I was well into my 30's was that my mom had been sexually abused by my grandfather, and she had spent her life pretending that nothing ever happened. I can remember her talking about what a wonderful family she had, how her father was the most respected and intelligent member of their small community, how brilliant and wise her mother was, how clever her brothers--in short, what an incredible heritage I had, and I was never to do anything th cast a smear on it. She was even quite clear, although indirect, that her family was far more accomplished and smart and talented than my dad's family, although she did go to great pains to say how good and smart and clever my dad was--in contrast to the rest of his family!

I always knew something was wrong with that picture, but it took me years to begin to figure it out. My mom was careful to marry a man who would never abuse children; he was a good man, but he was really distant. My mom was so uptight about holding onto her image of cultured perfection that most of my growing up memories of her have her mouth in a thin straight line, tense from worry or fear or irritation.

I always knew that my mom's father made my skin crawl, but I never knew why. I also knew that some of my uncles made me feel that way as well, especially one of them.

When my mom finally admitted that inappropriate things had happened, suddenly everything began to make sense. One year (she made one or two revelatory statements a year for about five years) she said she used to be afraid to go to school for fear when she came home her mother would be hurt from her father beating her.

I finally began to add things up and began to see that my mom's concern with appearances was a result of her trying to rewrite her past. I also began to understand (with the help of a wonderful therapist) that my own feelings of violation were a result of my mom's abuse causing her to have no normal boundaries with me. I used to be so concerned with what people would think of me that my fear would overrule common sense. It was more important to be seen as good, well-mannered, accomplished, and an attentive daughter than anything else. I was so uptight about doing everything right that I almost twitched. I did have some really compuslive habits as a pre-and-early-teenager. I can also remember lying awake many nights during my teens, fearing that I had committed the unpardonable sin.

All of my mom's expectations of perfection were tied up with being a good Adventist. Adventism was the perfect religion, and its requirements were those of a perfect people, and being good and participating in church and being respected in that community were mandatory.

I never felt good enough--I never was good enough. And when my mom told me I was the best daughter anybody could have, I knew it wasn't objective truth. I knew that I was a projection of her own wishes for herself. During my teens those comments of hers drove me crazy.

Yes, Susan, I grew up in a perfectionistic enviornment. Now that I've left Adventism, I'm beginning to see that an awfully big percentage of Adventist families seem to have serious levels of sickness and often abuse operating in them. Abuse hides so well in Adventism; it's conservative, polished, cultured, often educated, and who could expect such pillars of the community to be abusive?

Another thing that amazes me now: the Health Message is completely carnal! It's all about fleshly concerns. It a complete focus on the body and on purifying our carnal selves. And it's promoted as the Right Arm of the Message. It's considered by Adventists to be part of the gospel! Now I do like the benefits of careful eating, but to put food right up there with our spiritual calling is blasphemous. As Jesus said, it's not what goes into a man's mouth that makes him impure; it's what comes out of his mouth. The Adventist food fetish is downright cultic (as are many of its other "distinctives).

Thanks for bringing up the topic, Susan. It felt good to "talk" about it!
maggieb
Posted on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, I think many, many of us have been holding things inside for a long time, feeling that no one would understand.

I've felt like I couldn't go backwards or forwards. Can't go back to Adventism, that's for sure, but how do you explain such a crazy past to people on the outside? The SDA's don't understand how you could have left The Truth, and the non-SDA's don't understand how anyone could believe such nonsense. (And I dare you to find a therapist, besides Jim Moyers, who has a clue!)

Catch 22 situation. My "solution" has been to become more and more reclusive. (You're more likely to spot a Sasquatch than me!) I don't recommend my "solution".

The former JW's and LDS's have a head start on the recovery movement, it seems to me. Maybe we can learn from them?

The thing that helps me forgive Ellen White, and those old-time SDA's who messed up my life, is to realize that past generations have had far fewer resources than we presently have, and were doing the best they knew how.

I'm just trying to stay present with the pain and not zone out. I believe, on faith, that all of this can eventually be processed.

Maggie
Susan (Susan)
Posted on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morgan, so sorry for all the hurt in your family. It sounds so similar to my background. My mom is alot like yours. I know she had a real abusive home (alcoholism,emotional abuse, perhaps more?)but she doesn't say much. I think she's the type to cover things up and make it all look good. But it makes you think your family is "nuts" when you grow up like that. You know things aren't normal or perfect but yet that's how you're supposed to act (I bet we'd all make great actors!).I remember when my parents split up and it came time for my 11th birthday party. Of course all my little SDA friends and parents would be around so mom insisted that my dad come and hang around so everything would seem o.k. This was just a month after the bomb had hit. How was I supposed to pretend things were fine? This is just one of many crazy examples.

But,in a way I think we're stronger for all of this. God can really redeem even the worst things in our lives. I think one of the nicest things about Christianity is that we don't "have" to live up to a set of rules. Don't get me wrong, I believe part of being a Christian means to daily seek the holiness of God. I will never become perfect, and thank God I don't have to be! Christ is my mediator. I want to live like Him, as a response to my salvation. It's a daily prayer that I die to self, and live for Him. But there's no SDA/EGW influence anymore. It's really quite liberating. The Bible is my only authority now. It's all I'll ever need. I can say with all certainty that "I'm saved!"

Maggieb, please don't get discouraged! There are so many Christians out there that will lovingly take you in. They may not understand, but they have a genuine love for God and He will use them, in ways you may never realize to minister to you. Just shop around until you find a church you can be comfortable in. I know that sounds a bit funny, but it's what you need right now. May I suggest a mainstream denomination. I personally found a Christian Reformed church to be a nice place as my first church home(after being born again). Later we joined a Presbyterian church and found it to be very biblical. Now we attend a non-denominational church. The important thing is to find a bible believing, healthy, and loving community of Christians. One that adheres to the core essentials of Christianity.

A good source for more on Christian essentials is the website of the Christian Research Institute (www.equip.org)This is a wonderful ministry that helps people in cults. Although they do not classify SDA's as cultic, they do disagree with some of their doctrines. I heard their president (Hank Hanagraff of the "Bible Answer Man' radio show) mention that he was planning to re-investigate SDA teachings in the future. Perhaps we should all lobby for this to happen!

Please maggie, don't give up. God loves you so much and he's gotten you this far. He has great plans for you, I'm sure! Just keep talking with all of us. It has been a tremendous help for me. I'll be praying for you. Love in Christ, Susan
Jen
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 1999 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, thank you for your last post! Some times when I read some of the experiences and the emotional relationships my chin drops. I never realized that I was not the only one. In my life I felt as though I was dealing with such overwhelming insurmountable obstacles. No one would be able to help me much less understand. And the guilt made me feel so much shame and self lothing! Dispare was my middle name and anger my outlet. Some times I would spiril to vary scary depths, I would think - how could God love me, such a shambled wreck! Yet through it all some how I knew that He was my only hope.
I would think, if only I was born with a talant or physical beauty or even smart so that I could figure all this out. One time when I was in my 20's I was hospitalized at 105lb emaciated, dehydrated, and sleep deprived. This was not due to drugs or alcohol I just shut down physically. I saw a very prominent SDA psychiatrist and he told me in essence that I was getting something out of this or I wouldn't be there. It has taken me a life time to see that that is an error and a dangerous one to boot! Because I believed him I blamed myself. Once I got back on my feet I signed myself out and never sought psycho therapy again. (I really didn't seek it then but they made me). Then I knew then the dangers of opening yourself up to other people. At least that is how I felt. Hence, a very isolated existence.
When I was around people I would be what I was suppose to be. At least the best I could. When I couldn't be it I just would not be around. It has paralized me socially and professionally. But the Lord knows, He is my only hope my only praise and my only sure salvation! I still don't know about Heaven but I sure do need Him here! I can't look too far ahead - too many bends and twists - all I know is that I need Him now.
You said: But,in a way I think we're stronger for all of this. God can really redeem even the worst things in our lives.
Thank you!
Susan
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 1999 - 4:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Jen, What an ordeal you've been through! My heart really goes out to you. It must have been awful to go through all that emotional and physical torment. It sounds like you're doing a good job of letting Christ take over. He is the only thing that can get us through. It takes time. I was told to never let my emotions show as a kid. This was so harmful. Especially when my parents divorced. I was never allowed to be me. Now at 31 I'm discovering who I really am. As a child of God we're created in His image. And yes, we are all wonderful works of art. He is the master artist! I struggle too with self-esteem issues. But I have to constantly remind myself that I am a child of THE King of Kings. By submiting to Him we have the power of the Holy Spirit living in us. That means we CAN conquer anything! Even past hurts.

I know it's not easy. I'm still working on anger issues. But I know that God isn't finished with me. It's a daily thing. And He's promised to never leave us. I'm finding, the more I stay in the word and the more I pray, the closer I feel to Him. He really speaks through His word.

You can be rest assured that there IS a heaven. But don't worry if all your Bible questions don't fall into place right away. I've found the resources at www.sdaoutreach.com to be wonderful. The pastor who started the ministry is a former adventist. The tapes and materials I've ordered from them have really helped me. He seems to be VERY biblical and loving towards adventists and former adventists.

I'm so glad you've found this website and are sharing with us. It seems like a safe and loving place to hang out at. In fact, I'm sitting here now with my STRONG cup of coffee enjoying the conversation. Anytime you feel discouraged please let me know. I don't know if I'll be much help, but I can always pray. Your sister in Christ, Susan
Lydell
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 1999 - 5:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's right Susan. There are so many Christians out there with loving hearts ready to minister to people. We are members of a Vineyard church. One of the goals of Vineyard churches is to specifically reach out to the unchurched. Some of the unchurched are folks who have just never been involved in church. Some are people who have just really trashed their lives up to this point. Some are folks who one way or another (some because of the way they were brought up....just like some of you have shared about your Adventist pasts, their's just had a different label on it) have been deeply hurt or insulted by "religious" folks in their past, yet they know in their hearts that God is real and feel a need for Him.

Have heard a couple of folks at our church say that this was "the last chance". If this hadn't worked they were ready to give up on God. As a result of the deeply hurting people who are inclined to come to our church, the Lord has designed a very open, very real atmosphere. We strive to keep all our own shields gone so we can reach out to others. Part of that real atmosphere is the casual dress and lack of labels. A stranger stepping into one of our servcies would not be able to guess who the pastor is until he stepped up front, because he looks like everyone else. That helps. But what helps most of all is that the people realize that the hurts of people go so deep that we simply are unable to reach them without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit. As a result, some interesting things happen.

Anyway, my point here is that there ARE people out there who understand better than you can imagine these things you are struggling with. There are folks out there who were sexually and emotionally abused. There are folks there who were beat up by "religious" ones from their past. And they CAN help you.

Maggie, you say you are nervous about going to a church and being accepted. I understand that! But I think you will be surprised by loving Christians. We were a bit nervous about that too when we went to this church. But you know, the standard response to our saying, "we were Seventh Day Adventist" is: shrug....I was Catholic....I was a drug addict,,,,,I was in the Jim Jones cult (yes, we have really met one of those!)....I was in jail.

I'm not trying to ignore the fact that you have suffered. But there is help out there! There are real Christians out there who would just love to get to know you. And some you will come across are those who are needing your own help. It's worth taking the risk to find them, even if you have to shop for awhile. I promise you, God IS faithful to lead you.

It took us 8 years to finally get that message from Him. And His leading only came once we gave up our own preconceived ideas of exactly what kind of church He would have to lead us to. I never would have imagined that he was going to lead us to the kind of place that he has, because it was so different from our traditional past. It isn't a style that is a "fit" for everyone. But it has been such a tremendous blessing to us. Maggie, he has a blessing waiting for you too!
maggieb
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 1999 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you all for your prayers and encouragement! I believe in prayer. I believe God is restoring my faith in people, as well, which seemed humanly impossible. Thank you all for sharing your stories.

Maggie

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