| Author | Message | ||
| Praise999 |
Those that believe and teach that the Sabbath is the "true" seal of God, either do not know Ephesians 1:13, or they ignore it, or they develop a line of logic that is built on assertions and some "proof texts." Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. | ||
| Cas |
Is there anyone who would be interested in stating your understanding of what Rev. 14:12 could mean. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus". Now the SDA's would have us believe this could only be them since they say they keep all the commandments of God. Would the use of the word commandments be the literal 10 commandments in this verse? Could the Greek or Hebrew word for commandment have different meanings throughout the Bible other than the literal 10? I do realize that there were other commandments given other than the "10" so which ones is this verse in Rev. speaking of? In John 15:9-13 it seems apparent that Jesus is not referring to the 10 commandments. If anyone out there has thoughts on this please share them. p.s. I guess this runs in the same vein of confusion over which commandments were nailed to the cross and done away with. | ||
| tony russo |
Another interesting point about Rev. 14:12 is the word for "keep." It means to "watch" as in watch over. The same word is found in Matt. 27:36,54 in reference to those who stood at the cross and watched. Rev 14:12 does not use the Greek word poieo which means something I do or that I perform." Correctly translated the text literally says, "Here are they who keep watch over the commandments. In this sense it means guadians. It is the same word and meaning used of the soldiers who kept a watch over the tomb of Christ, Matt. 28:4. The duty of the Christian is not to attempt to keep the law. That's an impossibility. The responsibility is to promote the law of God to the sinner who has not recognized his/her need of Christ. The law points out sin. That's all it can do. Anyone who claims that keeping the Sabbath is preserving the law is living only the letter of the law and not the spirit. The Spirit of the law is the character of Christ living through us. It is His love in us that is the fulfilling of that law. Anything less than this is pure legalism. | ||
| lydell |
Cas, on another forum someone pointed out that the word translated "commandments" and the wording here would more correctly have been translated "teachings of Christ". That would have put a whole new meaning to the verse. But even with it translated "commandments" it would take in the commands to go into all the world and preach and baptize, be humble (don't take the first seat at the table), be a joyful giver, annoint the sick with oil and many others. | ||
| tony russo |
Someone sent an e-mail asking me to explain further a statement I made in an above comment. "Anyone who claims that keeping the Sabbath is preserving the law is only living the letter of the law and not the Spirit of the law." When I say, "Spirit," I mean the Holy Spirit. All of the qualities of the Spirit mentioned in Gal. 5:22 reflect the character of Christ. The last part of verse 23 states, "Against such there is no law." The wonder of God is that He took our punishment in order to give us a second chance for Him to dwell once again in His creation. That is the only we can live in God's presence, with His perfect "image and likeness" in us, just like He did with Adam. The spiritual DNA of Adam's life was the Spirit of the Law, the character mentioned in the fruits of the Spirit. The only thing is- -we cannot fulfill the law by our own behavior. No matter how moral that behavior might be, it is a worthless righteousness without God's image doing it through us. And that image, Col. 1:15-17, is Jesus Christ, God Himself. He has gained the right to live in His creation again. And this is all done by FAITH ALONE. The Sabbath ties Creation and Redemption together by faith. The only way we can ever know those Two Great Events of the universe is through faith, Heb. 11:3. The Sabbath is rightly a sign of our faith in Christ as Redeemer and Creator. The Sabbath, like circumcision, is only a sign. A sign is different than a seal. Romans 4:11. They are never the same thing. Therefore the Sabbath cannot be both something that we are commanded by God to do, and be the power that gives us the free grace that enables us to do it. Nothing that we do as Christians counts for anything in heaven. Even when Christ works through us they are not salvational. They only prove that salvation is working in our lives because He lives in us, actually. | ||
| Morgan (Morgan) |
Something that helped me to understand that Jesus is our Sabbath was realizing that the fourth commandment was given to Israel not as an arbitrary command but as literal reminder of rest in Christ. In effect God said, "You will rest in your tents one day every week, and I will make you prosperous. The pagans around you work hard to appease their gods. But I will make you more successful than they can understand, and you will not be able to take credit for it. You will be in your tent every seventh day whether it's harvest or lambing season. The pagans who work ceaselessy will know you rested every week, and they will see that your prosperity did not come from your hard work. Your success will by my gift to you. You rest in me, and I'll bless you." Also, remember where the presence of God dwelt in the Old Covenant? In the most holy place over the mercy seat. When Jesus died, the veil in the temple ripped, and the presence of God was gone. At Jesus' death, God abandoned the Old Covenant because Jesus had fulfilled it. On the Day of Pentecost the presence of God came to its new home: the hearts of Christ's followers. Now our salvation is accomplished. We're in the New Covenant. The ten commandments pointed to Christ. The Sabbath foretold that we would have rest in Christ when he had finished the work of our salvation. Now he blesses us beyond belief while we rest. The people around us work hard to appease and to earn favor with God. But we have rest--every day of our lives--because Jesus has defeated Satan, and our salvation is secure. The Holy Spirit assures us that we are God's sons. The Holy Spirit is the seal that protects our hearts and identifies us as Christ-followers. | ||
| Joni (Joni) |
Morgan, I really appreciated your post. I praise God for His children. Where would we be without a family? When I found the verses in Eph. about the HS a few years back it was a light in the dark. I was so amazed. I always thought it was the Sabbath. I think these verses were one of the first that started me thinking about what I was being taught. Another was the gifts of the spirit. Adventist always dwelled on the prophet and I could not understand why a dead person. What about the other gifts? What about prophets being subject to prophets, there is no checking and balancing in the Adventist church. Any thoughts? Joni | ||
| Susan (Susan) |
CAS, Another thing your might want to consider. Look at ALL of John's teachings on the commandments. 1John 3:21-24 gives a good idea as to what John may mean when he refers to "commandments". I've found that researching all of what the bible has to say on a particular topic is the best form of research. The cults like to take one verse at a time and teach on it. Be careful not to take verses out of context, look at all of what scripture teaches regarding the topic and also what type of writing are you looking at?(prophetic, poetic etc.). All those who've responded to your question have given great insight. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in! Hope it helps a little. I've recently obtained some wonderful resoures, to help me gain a thorough understanding of why sabbath keeping is no longer commanded. I hope it's o.k. to suggest them. Pastor Mark Martin out in Phoenix,AZ has an SDA outreach ministry. I've found all their materials to be outstanding, but especially the tape set on the "Covenants pt. 1&2". These tapes do a great job of digging into what the bible has to say about sabbath keeping. Also, there's a book by Dale Ratzlaff "Sabbath in Crisis" which is a wonderful resource too. They are both real in-depth materials on the sabbath. Mark Martin's ministry can be found at www.sdaoutreach.com and Dale Ratzlaff's materials are at www.ratzlaf.com God's blessings in your pursuit of the truth! I almost forgot to mention that it's CRUCIAL to pray each time you open the word. Ask God to pour out His truth as you study. Ask God to guide you and show you what He wants you to see. Remember that He wants His word, to be a light to your path. Your friend in Christ, Susan |
