| Author | Message | ||
| Onesimus |
So far on this website we have talked alot about our recovery from the spiritual abuse of Adventism. Recognizing that Adventism has the second highest rate of abuse (all forms) and that all abuse affects us spiritually, what has God done in your life to lead to His road of healing related to those areas? What have your struggled with and what have you found helpful? | ||
| Lydell |
Recently our pastor observed that when we come to Christ and turn over to Him those things in our lives that have been hurtful, He reinterprets our lives. He takes those hurts and turns them around and lets us see that He can bring some good from them. After we left the church we spent many many months looking back and licking our wounds and rehashing the problems we had encountered. Finally we followed His prompting to get into the word and read the book of Acts to see what He had intended for the church to be. It was during that study that we had to acknowledge that the SDA denomination was nothing at all like the church of Acts. In fact, it was anti-New Testament church if anything. Finally one day it dawned on us that we hadn't so much been thrown out of the church by those who hated us, or had to leave in desperation and weariness and frustration, but rather it was that God in His mercy had literally driven us out so that we could be set free from that oppression. And why in the world were we grieving over that? We had been upset about leaving a church where God apparently wasn't ever present. It revolutionized our outlook so that we could then begin to really dig into the word to find all the stuff we had been overlooking or had pushed aside. I don't feel anger towards those who hurt us now, instead I feel a deep sadness that their minds are closed to the glorious truths He has available for them. What a terrible waste of time to constantly be touting the supposed righteousness of spending one day a week with Him when He desires to have an intimate relationship with us everyday! We find that there are folks out there who have also experienced spiritual abuse in other churches. Two who we know of were basically tossed aside by alcoholic parents and forced to live with religious grandparents who verbally and physically abused them. God is going to use our hurtful experiences as a basis for ministry to others who are hurting as well. The first step is forgiveness of those who caused the hurt. I've heard it explained by having someone hold a rock in their hand and imagine that this is the person who hurt them. God requires us to lay down the rock in His hand and take our hand off of that hurt. We have to choose to show the willingness to be forgiving, He is the one who eventually builds in the feeling of having forgiven the person. It may take many days of battling satan. He will try to get you to pick back up the rock. But you have to put him on notice again that you have given that thing to Christ, you are no longer accepting the burden of carrying it, and you have chosen not to let it steal your joy. | ||
| ~156~ |
"The first step is forgiveness of those who caused the hurt." I must respectfully disagree with that statement. Forgiveness is often the *final* step, the step that can only be taken after personal healing of the hurt itself. We cannot love and forgive out of a vaccuum, and those hurts and traumas rob from us, suck the life out, and create a vaccuum of Need which no one can fill, and which we cannot fill ourselves. When healing takes place, when we have actually processed the inner wounds positively and proactively, we go through a period of deconstruction and reconstruction. We deconstruct all the false beliefs we have formed about ourselves, others, and life as a result of the trauma or pain. We work backwards to recall the impossible promises or vows we made to ourselves as a reactionary attempt to try to ensure we would never be hurt like that again. We dismantle the unhealthy walls of coping structures we erected to protect ourselves in the wake of that pain. We relinquish our hold on all the judgments we passed following those traumas. At the core lies the pain itself, and that pain, like a hidden wound that never healed, must be addressed and healed at its source. Then we can reconstruct from the health granted us through the healing. We develop healthy beliefs about ourselves, others and life, beliefs inclusive of hope and healing. We experience release from the imprisonment and stranglehold of an ongoing pain that has scripted our sense of reality for us, and begin to write new, healthy scripts about what we will perceive as real. Only then do we become enabled to forgive, for only then is the vaccuum filled with a new experience: the experience of healing, of wholeness, and the sense of hope and gratitude it brings our hearts. In many cases, we actually become able to be thankful for the experience itself, for the way it has prompted us to grow and change in ways we never could have if we had never had to endure it. Then from this wellspring of newfound freedom, thankfulness and joy, we are able at last to look at the "enemy" who did this thing to us, and to realize our essential unity -- that s/he is just like me, and I am just like him/her, in the sense that neither of us is any "better" than the other. We have all been wounded. We have all been traumatized. We all have the same need to be loved, accepted, and made whole. And there is no way to tell or to prove that, had I been born with that person's mind and feelings and personality, and lived through whatever that person had to live through, that I would have done any better than they did in terms of how I behaved, what decisions I made, or how I treated me. Then the words, "forgive as you have been forgiven" are no longer mere senseless syllables nor even command or directive; they become a living, breathing reality inside ourselves, the very law of our being. Not "law" in the sense of "obey this" but LAW in the sense of natural function, like gravity. We find that we cannot NOT love, and we cannot NOT forgive. And that, dear friends, is the essence of True Forgiveness. Not a band-aid slapped on a painful situation while we deny the impact and deny how we feel and delude ourselves that this constitutes the "self-denial" preached in religion (what a horrid, psychologically destructive and dysfunctional concept, to link this with that!) but a REAL forgiveness that is filled with the miraculous power of AGAPE LOVE, power to heal, power to change, power to transform. If it ain't got the juice, you ain't been set loose. Pax templi, B. | ||
| Bruce H |
156 You seem to have a Lot of me myself and I's, or you and yourself, our, ouselves etc... --WE cannot love and forgive --which no one can fill (What about the Holy SPIRIT) --which WE cannot fill ourselves. --WE have actually processed the inner wounds --WE go through a period of deconstruction --WE WROK backwards to recall the impossible promises or vows WE made --WE dismantle the unhealthy walls --WE deconstruct all the false beliefs WE have formed about ourselves --WE develop healthy beliefs about ourselves --WE find that WE cannot NOT love -- but a REAL forgiveness that is filled with the miraculous power of AGAPE LOVE, power to heal, power to change, power to transform.(WHO'S AGAPE LOVE??????) 156 you sound like an Adventist with all the me, I we's and our's. Their does not seem to be any room for Gods work when it is all us. This is Old Covenant thinking, are you an Adventist?? BRUCE H | ||
| Lydell |
Yes Bruce, that is exactly the reaction I had to the post, there was something seriously missing...the power of God. WE cannot forgive....only the Lord can do it through us. Because of our inability in ourselves to forgive it is impossible for us to heal as long as we carry the burden of unforgiveness. It's like a dam that is holding us in. We first must choose to be willing to allow the Lord to work. We must make the choice to just begin to let go. The healing begins immediately at that point. The actual feeling of forgiveness toward the one who has caused the hurt only comes later. Jesus commanded us to forgive....he did not command that we feel the forgiveness. That's two different things. The choice is ours, the feeling is His gift. | ||
| David |
I would like to make a couple of observations about forgiveness. It is hard for us to forgive because we must address the root of the problem which is the wounding of our egos or pride. You will notice that Jesus never once asserted his ego when it came to forgiving, not even as he hung of the cross. As long as we allow our personal worth to be wrapped up in whether we forgive or not, then we are trapped in a snare of our own design. Let's face it folks, forgiveness is self denial reduced to the lowest common denominator. It requires us to do something without any expectation of a return. We all have experienced this. We have forgiven people who are so hard that they didn't even know that they had offended us and needed forgiveness. Sounds sorta like the gospel to me. How about you? The vast majority of people don't realize that they need God's forgiveness because they don't think that they are a great a sinner as so and so or that they have done anything that requires His fogiveness. So what to do we do about forgiveness? We just do it, not because it feels right or that we have undergone some kind of self imposed healing process that will bring us to the point of forgiveness. We do it because Jesus taught us how to do it. It is the right thing to do. It is the healthy thing to do. If this were true, every person with a psychological or physical maiming would find it impossible to forgive those who have inflicted those conditions upon them. We forgive without and any conditions or expectations. This is taking up the cross of Christ. If we expect the person to acknowledge their wrongdoing, then we may be disappointed and open ourselves to more wounding thereby doubling our need to forgive rather than allievating us from the hurt. Sin and the flesh are crafty adversaries. They like to dress up good intentions with rags and to pass them off as genuine spirituality. Only as we follow the example of Christ will we truly be delivered from the detrimental effects of pridefully bearing unforgiveness until we think that we are healed enough to forgive the person who offended us. That's like saying that we will nurse a bottle of poison until it is gone and then everything will be fine. Unforgiveness is sin. It is corrosive and it will kill you unless you humble yourself to turn it over to God. Only He has the power to empower us to forgive from the right motives. Let Him do it without delay. | ||
| Still SDA |
Onesimus stated that "Adventism has the second highest rate of abuse (all forms)". Can this claim be substantiated? | ||
| Jeff H |
I received a letter one of my patients gave me and thought I would share it here. A well known speaker started off his seminar by holding up a $20 bill. In the room of 200, he asked, "Who would like this $20 bill?" Hands started goin up. He said, "I am going to give this $20 to one of you but first, let me do this." He proceeded to crumple the dollar bill up. He then asked, "Who still wants it?" Still the hands were up in the air. "Well", he replied, "What if I do this?" And he dropped it on the ground and started to grind it into the floor with his shoe crumpled and dirty. "Now who still wants it?" Still the hands went into the air. "My friends you have all learned a very valuable lesson. No matter what I did to the money, you still wanted it because it did not decrease in value. It was still worth $20. Many times in our lives, we are dropped, crumpled, and ground into the dirt by the decisions we make the circumstances that come our way. We feel a though we are worthless. But no matter what has happened or what will happen, you will never lose your value in God's eyes. To Him, dirty or clean, crumpled or finely creased, you are still priceless to Him Psalm 17:8 states that God will keep us, "as the apple of His eye." Thought: The worth of our lives comes not in what we do or who we are but by WHOSE WE ARE! You are special - Don't ever forget it! | ||
| Dennis J. Fischer |
I heartily recommend the book "Spiritual Crisis: Surviving Trauma to the Soul" by J. LeBron McBride, PhD. Dr. McBride tells about his own survival mechanisms from leaving Adventism. I obtained my copy through Barnes and Noble order department. It was published by Haworth Press. Dr. McBride, an ordained minister, is a professional therapist. He has a Masters of Divinity from Andrews University, a Masters in Public Health from LLU, and a PhD in Marriage and Family Therapy from Florida State University. | ||
| WILLIAM ASHWORTH |
I will be 80 years old in November 2000. I was brought in the Adventist church from childhood on. I pretty much know Ellen White by heart. Ellen White was my god. My thinking was why study the Bible because Ellen was God's messenger and what she said must be our guide post or we would be lost. As a child I heard the Adventist ministers tell the congregation that it was a sin to carry any form of insurance. One day I found out that the church was insured. This Icouldn'tunderstand. I sent my two children to Adventist schools. At Collegedale, someone found a package of cigarettes in my sons locker. The dean called me on the phone and told me that my son was in big trouble and he was being put on a bus at 11 pm that night and being sent home. Rather than showing him love they totally lost him. He was put in public school. As you know the upper class in the Adventist church are its idols. My work is in research. I developed several products that were accepted worldwide. I was on the Jonny Carson show twice and my products were On the cover of Popular Mechanics Magazine. I became a celebraty. I then was much sought after by the Adventist church. I was still so brainwashed by Ellen Whitethat I believed that there was no other way to heaven except through Ellen. You can imacine how I felt when I read Walter Rae's "WHITE LIE". I was stunned. I could not believe what I was reading. I confronted Walter Rae and the General Conference. Walter Rae documented everythin he had said for me. The General Conference sent the a document written by a mark of the beast lawyer saying the an Ellen White's day it was OK to copy others works ann not gige them credit. I believe this was 1980. I was completely disgusted with the Adventist church. I quit going to church for about five years. Ellen White had been my idol. I had always been taught that ally other churches were Babylon. I had never attended anothr church and now I believed they were from the devil. If the only true church had misled me so, i could only imagine what the devil'd churches would be like. I felt that there was no other place to go. After about five years the WHITE LIE shock wore off and I started back to the Adventist church but refused to accept any office in the church. It was about 1985 when I started back but refused to accept Ellen as the truth anf light. This did not set too well with the church. My Sabbath School class was very large aqnd each week, no inquiry was made about the absent ones. The teacher always asked if any visitors were there but nothing about the absent ones. I felt very bad about this and voluntered to contact the absent ones and tell them they were missed and report to the class the next week. I caught the teacher off guard and he accepted my offer, but the next Sabbath I learned my offer had not been accepted. This teacher was very high up person in the Adventist denomination. He knew my feelings about Ellen White and apparently believed the I might try influence the flock. This happened in 1987. By this time I believed that I was in the wrong church a constantally asked the Lord to show me the true way. In early 1998 a woman in the Sabbath school class brought up the subject of angles having to show a golden pass card to re-enter heaven. I told the class that that was pure baloney. This did not sit very well with the class. The nex week I was presented with the page in Early Writings where the statemene was. I told them that I knew exactaly wher it was found. I knew that trouble was a comming because the quarters Sabbath school lessons was on the Spirit of Prophecy (Ellen White) A short time before a Morman business associate had visited with me over the weekend. I took him to the Morman church on Sunday. He was a high priest in the Morman church. On that particular Sunday they had a meentng of the high preists in this church so my freind went to this meetin and invited me to go with him so I did. The main topic in this meeting was abou their prophet,JOSEPH SMITH. The next Sabbath in the Sabbath school class the Ellen was the principal subject. I told the class about the Mormon church experience aqnd told them that I heard the same thing there about Joseph Smith that I was now hearing about Ellen White. At this time the teacher (high up in the Adventist church) said that any one tha believed like that should find them another church. I felt that this remark was an answer to many prayers and have not been back since. I have learned that the Babylon churches are loving places to attend and Jesus is their message. I have no bad feelings toward the Adventist people. I have much to unlearn. I am learning much from the internet. I am so thankful that I was invited to leave and that I did leave so I could have a personal relationship with JESUS. My E-MAIL address is WMASH@AOL.COM | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
William, Thank you for your testimony. I can identify in many ways. But God seems to have been leading -- or, better yet, driving -- you to higher ground than SDAs can even see, much less hike to, because their eyes are fixed on the toes of their own boots. You seem real in the sense that you are sensitive to the feelings of those who have mis-trusted Ellen White. It's a long, difficult task disentangling one's self from the toils of her ropes and chains. And people who haven't been so emeshed sometimes give short shrift to those of us who really did love her, even as we hated her. It's complicated. And I see that you understand that. Thanks again for your precious testimony. Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
William, Thank you for your honest sharing. Your story has such a familiar "feel" to it. I understand your sense of freedom and joy and discovery and entanglement and long-standing frustration. We welcome you to this forum! Please continue to share and grow with us. We will pray for you and praise God for you! Colleen | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, This is a question that came up a few weeks ago that got me to thinking. I will tell you right up front that it is a loaded question. It is an honest question that if Y'all will give an answer to should develope into a very good discussion. A simple "yes" or "no" would be fine. Is "Mental Illness" a sin? Maryann | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
I'll answer your question with a question: Is being born blind or being born with a withered hand a sin? | ||
| Plain Patti |
Maryann, Humanity is sinful. So to ask if "mental illness" is a sin, I would have to technically say "yes," because it is a human condition. As we are completely sinful because of Adam, so we are made completely whole in Jesus Christ. The Gospel is the great equalizer: Sin is not what we do; sin is what we are. Likewise, our righteousness comes not of what we do; it comes of what Christ has done. | ||
| CAS |
William, Thank You for your testimony. Most of us here have been there, done that. I also was immersed in Ellen White, more so than the Bible, and it is truly a nightmare when you start finding out the facts about Ellen White. It is so sad SDA's have made her an idol. The lawyer that was hired by SDA's to say that Ellen White did not plaguarize is laughable. How about the report by Fred Veltman SDA's own head of the Theology Dept. (in the 80's)and his report admitting a large portion of Ellen Whites Book DOA was copied, and yet she denied it! God Bless you William | ||
| Lori |
Maryann, I think it depends on what kind of mental illness it is...........their are many mental illnesses that are caused by birth defects, trauma, etc.....these are just part of living in a sinful world, they happen to believers and unbelievers. On the other hand, there are mental illnesses that are created.....by constant stress, situations and the inability to cope.....in other words, psychosis. In that respect I believe that psychosis is a result of a pattern of sin-- (whether it be a believer who doesn't claim God's promises or an unbeliever that has rejected Him---consider Nebuchadnezzar--he rejected God, he lost his mind!!).....the continued rejection of utilizing God's word is also a rejection of inner peace and tranquility. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Guys, I got a big smile. Every answer so far is just great/fanastic. I hope when I get back to this "addicting machine" next week, there will be even more answers to this question; is mental illness a sin? Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, My thoughts were more in line with what Jude said, "Is being born blind or being born with a withered hand a sin?" To which I would figure, no. Patti came up with, "Humanity is sinful. So to ask if "mental illness" is a sin, I would have to technically say "yes," because it is a human condition." Lori came up with, "I think it depends on what kind of mental illness it is...........their are many mental illnesses that are caused by birth defects, trauma, etc.....these are just part of living in a sinful world, they happen to believers and unbelievers. On the other hand, there are mental illnesses that are created.....by constant stress, situations and the inability to cope.....in other words, psychosis. In that respect I believe that psychosis is a result of a pattern of sin-- (whether it be a believer who doesn't claim God's promises or an unbeliever that has rejected Him." Now to my next question. Is "suicide" a sin? Just about everyone knows someone that has committed suicide. If my re-memory serves me right, SDAism looks at suicide as the un-pardonable sin or close to it. In my opinion, I figure one has to have degree of mental illness to commit suicide. If I remember correctly, Utah has a very high suicide rate and that is among the young Mormon people. These kids are raised from infancy, just like SDA kids, in a very strict and legalistic environment. Do you suppose that God takes into consideration, the pressures heaped on these kids. These pressures in a way brain wash these kids. Are they totally responsible for their actions? I'm sorta leaning towards the idea that maybe, just maybe they have a religion induced mental illness? This can apply to any religious sect. I'm, for some reason refering to kids that are raised in this type environment from infancy not necessarily those that went as adults into Heavens Gates/Koresh types. Kids DON'T have a choice and when they are older they they are brainwashed! Now, can one apply this line of reasoning to other areas? Kids that are under EXTREME pressure at home from parental sickness such as incest to severe beatings? A wife that is in a position that forces her prostitute herself for drugs for her husband. And the examples can go on and on. I was not in as severe a situation as some of the above situations, but I went from 0 to 18 in a very sheltered environment to a being married to a drugged up crazy cop that did crazy things to me like stick a gun in my ear, shoot at me, give me rides in the back of a patrol car at 120 mph and scream like a maniac that he was going to run us both off a cliff. After some broken bones, I can remember when I was 19, one evening, laying in bed for hours with a pistol to my ear, justa blubbering with my finger on the trigger seeing how much pressure I could put on it without it going off. Several times I just TRIED to pull the trigger and couldn't because my finger wouldn't move. What was my state of mind? Not very stable I'd say! Was it self induced? Did I ask to be born in a religion that was a cult? Was it my fault that I would do anything to get out of SDAism? Was marrying a crazy cop a rational thing for me to do? Of course, I didn't realize he was crazy till it was to late! How would God have seen this had I successfully blown my head off? I am getting very personal here because I have a strong feeling that someone out there may have or is going through this type of trauma. I'm going to take a stab at a short answer. God understands where you've been and has a plan for your future. If where you've been can help one person, it is all worth it. I'm sure that some of you can add greatly to this. Maryann | ||
| Richard, Jr. |
Maryann, Thanks for the good input on suicide. You have raised a very important suubject. I have conducted some funerals for people who commited suicide. I never thought any of them were lost because of suicide. Is a person lost because of a physical illness such as cancer? No! Using the same line of reasoning, "is a person lost because of a mental illness which could result in suicide? No! It's rather ironic that as Christians we would say a person that has cancer which results in death is savable, but a person with a mental illness which results in death is not savable. If a Christian will use modern medicine to treat a broken leg, then why wouldn't a Christian use modern medicine for a mental illness. An example would be a Christian who is a chronic depressive. They pray and pray and still they are depressed. Their depression could be result of a chemical imbalance. If they have any common sense they will visit a psychiatrist who will most likely prescribe an anti-depressant. Some mental illnesses are so severe that no amount of drugs will help. That person would be more susceptible to suicide. As far as I know the SDA church has not taken an "official" stand on suicide. I have talked with many SDA's who feel suicide is unpardonable. But I have talked with even more RC's who feel suicide is unpardonable. How do you feel about what I just said? Richard, Jr. |
