Adventist Health Message Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 1 » Adventist Health Message « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through May 22, 2000Jude the Obscure20 5-22-00  3:20 pm
Archive through August 6, 2000Breezy20 8-06-00  11:09 am
Archive through August 7, 2000Chyna20 8-07-00  7:14 pm
Archive through August 8, 2000Patti20 8-08-00  9:41 am
Archive through August 10, 2000Maryann20 8-10-00  8:45 pm
Archive through August 13, 2000Chyna20 8-13-00  7:01 pm
Archive through August 15, 2000Susan20 8-15-00  12:43 pm
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
George
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Guys,

This thing about EGW need not take up to much more time. All you have to do is decide if she lied once, about what God "told" her, or showed her and there you have it. I think God knows what He wants to say--yesterday today and always. There is no reason good enough to believe her if she got it wrong only once. And that means anything no mater how little.

Simple isn't it. Take things one at a time and decide if it is right, when you get to one that is wrong you will have the answer.

Why does everyone want to make it so hard?

George
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George,
No, because we are all human. She didn't turn super-human just because she was inspired. No, she, like all of us was human,and went through a journey of spiritual growth just like the rest of us. I've brought this up before and everyone just glosses over it. We all grow. And what we used to believe isn't necessarily what we still believe. It may even change tomorrow. That's okay. It is normal. We need to allow her the same human frailties as everyone else.

Wendy
Dennisrainwater
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Wendy!

I just can't stay out of this one. I once argued from your side of the fence. I know your passion -- and respect it. But you are flat wrong on this one.

You are correct in this: We are each human and must grow and mature. All of us make mistakes and, hopefully, we learn from them. However, GOD DOES NOT NEED TO LEARN THESE LESSONS! If these matters were merely her personal opinions which she expressed, then we would be compelled to allow her "growing room". However, she stated categorically that she was speaking on behalf of GOD, at the express direction of the Holy Spirit!

vis. "God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. IN THESE LETTERS WHICH I WRITE, IN THE TESTIMONIES I BEAR, I AM PRESENTING TO YOU THAT WHICH THE LORD HAS PRESENTED TO ME. I DO NOT WRITE ONE ARTICLE IN THE PAPER EXPRESSING MERELY MY OWN IDEAS. THEY ARE WHAT GOD HAS OPENED BEFORE ME IN VISION ó the precious rays of light shining from the throne." Testimonies for the Church, Vol 5, pg 67.

Sadly, it was in several of these articles where she was bringing us "the word of the Lord" in which she was undeniably wrong. Incidentally, the above text was not copied from one of those demon-haunted dissenters, but rather was copied directly from the text on the Ellen White Estate version of the Testimonies.

Oh Wendy. I wish you could know the peace and security that can be yours if you can ever shed this works-based religion. I cannot tell you how much my wife's and my experience in Christ has deepened and grown in the past two and a half years!!! I cannot express the joy and contentment that have been ours!! My connection with Jesus is so much more intimate than I had ever imagined that ANY relationship could ever be.

God bless you dear friend. I am praying that the straps on your blinders soon rot and fall off.

Dennis<><
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis,
If you now have both pieces to the puzzle. Why is it so hard to put them both together as a united whole?

Your quote above merely states that she received a message from God. It does not say that she didn't try to write it down from a human perspective.

No blinders. I save them for my horse.

Why does everyone make a judgement call about how satisfying my relationship with God is or isn't?

Wendy
Dennisrainwater
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Friend Wendy,

Maybe because each and every one of us knows how INCREDIBLY *our* relationship with God changed AFTER He changed our perspective of Him! Anyone else care to second that???

If I follow your logic about the above statement, then I cannot trust the Bible either, as maybe it was written "from a human perspective" too.

Please don't think I am attacking you. I love you as a sister in Christ. I just hope you don't have to get to Heaven before you can see what the rest of us see now. And that comes with a CHANGED way of looking at HIM.

I clearly understand how stong your desire to protect Mrs White and SDAism are. I was a fourth-gen SDA who took almost a complete decade trembling before the Truth. My journey of exit was so frightening and difficult. On the one hand, I had all this truth I honestly believed God was exposing to me through His Word. On the other, I had an almost instinctual fear that I was throwing away any chance of salvation by even being willing to evaluate the evidence. My point: I did not make this dicision carelessly. Nor without copious study. I'm someone who is a lot like you -- but now I've seen the rest of the picture! That's what so many of us are trying to impress upon you. We sure hope you get it! Because we love you and want His BEST for you.

His humble servant,
Dennis<><
Dennisrainwater
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy:
Your quote above merely states that she received a message from God. It does not say that she didn't try to write it down from a human perspective.

Dennis:
What's that got to do with anything????? I'll accept the 'human perspective' bit. That doesn't alter the fact that the CONTENT is the problem here. There are an abundance of Mrs. White's messages that are completely in error IN CONTENT! Not just perspective or human phraseology.
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis,
I am very sorry, but I do not see it the same way. I may never see it the same way. Good thing that isn't what my salvation depends on.
Yours either.
Wendy

Hey Dennis, lets stick with kids or sperm or something, K?
Maryann
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Wendy,

Let me guess? Your horse is a......."WORK" horse!

You said:

"She didn't turn super-human just because she was inspired. No, she, like all of us was human,and went through a journey of spiritual growth just like the rest of us."

Did Paul, John, Mark, Luke etc go "through a 'writing' journey of spiritual growth" while writing God's inspired word? Do we have to hunt and peck through their words for truth depending on what part of the journey they were at?

If God did the inspiring, it was His word!!!! And since it was God's word, it was/is truth, ALL OF IT! Grrrrrrr.

How in the world can you justify even considering that, while inspired, EGW could mess up?????? What does the word "inspire" mean anyway?

My understanding from the dictionary is, "divine or supernatural influence."

That was a real eye opener.

Divine means influenced by GOD = PERFECT:-))

Supernatural means influenced by.......? anything supernatural....could be the devil = IMPERFECT:-((

Maryann
Breezy
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann, I think you are making the same mistake as the GC. Placing Ellen's writings on the same level as the Canon. She was not an inspired writer of the same caliber as John, Paul, etc.
To place her on that high of a pedestal, she is bound to fall.

By the way Maryann, my horse is a "SHOW" horse not a work horse. Purebred arabian show horse. Check out http://omelarab.com/stallions/sanadik.html
That is his daddy. Not too shabby.

funny though!

God bless your peaked little head,
Wendy
Maryann
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Wendy,

You are STILL saying that she is inspired, duh? Does God inspired half donkey? He inspire all or nothing at all.

So you hang around those miniture wanna be horses that have spindly legs, short a bone backed, dishbrained, bug eyed, flare nosed, squirrelier than a woman, sissy Aaaaaaaaa-rab horses?

Me.......I hang around the quarter of a horse that looks like it had a fight with a paint bucket. But, they are solid of body and solid of brain.

I had a Paint Stud for 18 years and if an Aaaaa-rab lady was brought to visit him, he'd run and hide for fear that his name would be ruined;-))

;););)......Maryann
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, Hey, Hey!!!

You can demean me all you want about my faith, but leave my horse out of it! :)

My arab is smart, beautiful, and very stocky and well built, in fact I will either jump him or take him in western working classes.

Go look! Tell me that his daddy ain't beeaautiifuuul.

Bye Quarter horse person,
Wendy

Arab snob:):):):):)
Maryann
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeh, right,

Stocky huh?! Must have something decent in his/her pedigree! Must be one of those 7/8th jobbers.

Hey, it would take a little more than 1/8th to clean up those little sissy bones. Must be a 3/4? Hmmmmmm, my 1/4 and your 3/4 would make a 1/1

Yours has "flash" and mine has "class":-)

I thought you were headed to bed?

;););)
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know, what's wrong with me?

Purebred AAAAaaarab!

No Maryann your's just has a fat ...:)


Goodnight!!!!

Wendy
Maryann
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you!

I just realized something.....Fat is needed to grow a good brain. Need I say anything else?

:):):)
Loneviking
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 5:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gee, I don't know Mary Ann, one of the best horses I've ever been around for temperment and ability was an Arab mare. She'd follow you around like a dog, and loved to be ridden. Then again, one of the strongest (and strangest looking) was a quarter horse/Morgan cross. You could just barely fit a saddle on him he was so short coupled and stocky. But if there was a steer on the other end of the rope when he sat down, you can bet that moo was going down! He belonged to a cowboy with the Yosemite Pack Train and was about the best brush poppin little horse I've ever seen. I've always wanted to find me one like that again........
Sherry2
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis, you're exactly right. And you just can't understand until you've been there! The radical new change and difference in our lives is wonderful! When the veil got torn in my own heart, oh wow! It was amazing! The peace, joy and security are awesome. The love and passion for God that He has placed there is unmistakable. God bless you and your wife, Dennis. I'd love to hear your story.
Susan
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 7:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis and Sherry2, I so agree with you guys! The changes that came with being a Christian are so amazing. When I was no longer under the Adventist influence, scripture seemed to become much clearer. I have a firm security that all my sins have been forgiven (past and future). I no longer live in fear that I might die in a car crash, without having confesed one little sin. I also have an unexplainable assurance that I AM SAVED! I don't have to worry that my "angel" doesn't enter a movie theater with me and if it were to burn down, I'd be lost forever. You see, since I belong to Christ and have entered into His promised "eternal rest", all fear is gone! It's not about a lifestyle, it's all about a relationship now.

I'm stll waiting to hear from Wendy. What about EGW's outerbody experiences and all the other things you've been asked about? Are you ignoring us because there isn't any biblical support to substantiate her as having the Spirit of God?

God bless,
Susan
George
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy,

This is a real pointed question. Do you believe there are different degreed of inspiration? That God inspired differing degrees of truth?

George
Chyna
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what's wrong with the SDA church:

like wendy's position, they do not say that Ellen G. White is higher or more inspired than the Bible, you know all that b.s. about lesser light, greater light.

however, they TREAT EGW's writings with more reverence than Scripture. when EGW contradicts the Bible blatantly, they support EGW and not the Bible.

whenever I can point out that what the SDA position is is from EGW's writings and not from the Bible, they deludedly say that while they are in EGW's writings they come from the Bible. it's just purely ridiculous that they have "hidden truths" in fact, "hidden truths" is a sign that it is a cult, or at least cultic. God does not operate that way. if the SDA's were so right, then why is it not apparent to thousands of biblical scholars? some will point to Martin Luther and say that he went against the flow. the difference is that ML's protestant reformation has clear biblical basis in the Bible. when SDA's show me their doctrine, i think it's a bunch of balderdash.

it's funny, but the biggest warning bell that went off in my mind was the doctrine that Jesus is Michael. even when I explain to my friends that my ex and I broke up over beliefs (to Christian and nonChristian alike) all I have to do is mention that he thought Jesus is Michael the archangel for eyebrows to rise in complete surprise.

the reason is because once you mess with the fundamentals there is no going back. you either have to align yourself with the heresy or completely reject it.

the more i write about it the more upset I get about it. it's terrible that they are masquerading as a church in the first place.

although i mustn't say that because I'm sure that God can work through even a mangled doctrine.

i think i've heard doug? say this, but GET RID OF ELLEN! :) that's right, the apostles did not need ellen g. white to form the early church neither do we need this one 'commentator'

how blessed the SDA church would be if they removed her influence, but it would strip them of every distinguishing doctrine they have.

in Him, Chyna
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sherry,
No. The reason I am not getting into this is because all of you have gone the rounds with others on this forum and I have been witness to it. I will not get drug into this. What purpose will it serve to spend endless time in debate over these irreconcilable differences? Will God's Glory be lifted up? Or man's degredation be manifested. No, I will not debate with you or anyone else about these issues. Call me a coward or whatever other names you've used on fellow christians, but I will stick to discussions about fluffy Arab horses and fat quarter horses. It's friendlier AND more christian.

Wendy
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Sherry,
I obviously meant to address to Susan.
Wendy
Patti
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy,
Do you not feel that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is worthy of discussing and defending at every possible instance?
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti,
Not when it means endless go-arounds that change no one's minds. It is not Christian to continually argue about differences in belief. Build up the fellow members of the body, and if you can't then leave it alone.

Wendy

ps. Are you claiming that you need to defend the gospel from me?
Terry
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey All. Terry Here.
Dennis Rainwater: I emailed you and it came back undeliverable. This the address I used:
rainwater@ozarkmountains.com

Wendy, Are you gonna show me the way you said you would? I am ready and willing.

The veil hath no armour such as the fury of Satan.
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry,
I will send it by e-mail to you if you wish. I am no longer getting into debates on this forum. Friendly subjects only. My e-mail is hvnlybrz@netscape.com. Send me your e-mail and I will be happy to correspond with you there.

Wendy
Dennisrainwater
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Terry

Sorry -- it's "rainwatr@ozarkmountains.com" There is no "E" in Rainwater (not allowed enough characters). I look forward to getting your e-mail.

Wendy -

I know you're painted into a corner, and it's uncomfortable -- but you started it, as far as I can tell. I think you owe it to Terry and Susan to have it out -- or retract what you asserted... I hope you don't take that as harsh.

The few times I have ventured onto fora for current Adventists, I would never dare to take a shot at someone's position without being willing to "put my money where my mouth is". You have ventured into a forum created for those of us who have found Grace in the eyes of God, without Adventism attached to it; a place to share and discuss all the facets of why we left, and to work through the issues arising from that decision. And then you have told us that we are wrong. Personally, I welcome that to a point (as I think the rest of the members of this site do). But when folks have poured out their hearts to you and laid the truth out on the table -- clearly and undeniably, and you call it a bag of lies; well, I just think you have an obligation to be held accoutable.

I understand your desire to not get into a mud slinging contest -- I share it. That indeed, does not glorify Christ, nor further His cause. But, when one propogates false doctrine in an arena designed to support those learning to shed it, there is a time to hold one accoutable.

Please forgive my tone. I still love you, Wendy. (Are we still cousins?) I enjoy your spirit. You are a good person, who obviously has much that is wise to share. I cannot sit quietly, though, and watch what I cautiously, but honestly, regard as doctrines formulated in Hell to be presented unchallenged before all those lurkers out there. Some of whom might be snared by it just as they are about to slip the bonds which have enslaved them. Wendy, there is a difference between you and the rest of us. We do know something you don't know!

Still praying for those blinders,
Dennis<><
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sorry Dennis,
You know perhaps maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. But I believe that just like you believe that what you all teach on this forum is heresy. I also am concerned for those lurkers out there, and fear that they will be mislead if your theories go unchallenged. I have simply said that I do not need to explain myself because, maybe before your time, I have seen these arguments and it never works out. The "bad" guy gives his arguments, the "good" guys trounce him by mangling scripture which they cannot see. And the "bad" guy fades into the distance because he can't handle the pack of wolves tearing at his throat. End of story. So yes we are still cousins. You may e-mail me at hvnlybrz@netscape.com if you wish(.net?) k? As long as your wife doesn't care.

smiles,
Wendy
Patti
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 7:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy:
You know perhaps maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. But I believe that just like you believe that what you all teach on this forum is heresy.

Patti:
So why not answer it with SCRIPTURE? Every time we ask for biblical proof, you not only fail to produce any, you treat us with disdain that we should even ask for it. Come on, you who save the lurkers from heresy, put your money where your mouth is. SHOW US WHERE WE ARE WRONG FROM THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ONLY.

The problem is, Wendy, that you have no clue where we are coming from. OTOH, we know EXACTLY where you are coming from. We have "been there, done that." And we rejected it. Somehow you expect us to fall on our faces in repentence before you when you throw groundless personal accusations at us. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. And you refuse to back up your claims with the Bible. SO WHY SHOULD WE LISTEN TO YOU? We had enough years of following blindly along with someone's personal opinion about the Bible, "truth" and salvation. Why would we, at this point, reject all the Truth we have found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, all the Scriptural support we have found for salvation by the grace of God alone, and fall blindly back into believing someone's words over the Word of God?

Wendy:
I also am concerned for those lurkers out there, and fear that they will be mislead if your theories go unchallenged.

Patti:
No offense, you are not challenging them very well. All you are doing is making personal accusations. Give us the Word of God. Give us chapter and verse. You will find much Scripture on this forum. Answer us with Scripture. Because nothing will suffice except a "Thus saith the Lord."

Awaiting your response,
Grace and peace always,
Patti
Steve
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2000 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All,

Just want to see if I can make a little Christian fish.

This was first used in Nero's day. When Christians met in public, one would draw one curved line in the dirt. The other would draw the other line, making the fish. The Greek word for fish was "icthus". The letters from the Greek word was an acrostic that meant, Jesus Christ, God, Son of, Savior.

Since my middle name is Dennis, I want to be like my brother.

<>< Steve

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration