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Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 1 » Dear Adventist Friend: IF YOU TELL SOMEONE THAT MEAT-EATERS WON'T BE TRANSLATED, ARE YOU DOING VIOLENCE TO SCRIPTURE? « Previous Next »

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Jude the Obscure
Posted on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going to quote Romans 14:13-18 NIV, and after you have read it, you tell me whether or not vegetarians who tell Christians to stop eating meat are violating Scripture and are therefore sinning against God.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men."

There it is. Now, using the Bible and the Bible only, tell me whether or not vegetarians ought to keep their eating habits between themselves and God.
Steve
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Poor, poor Jesus. I wonder how He made it? Eating that fish on the shore after His resurrection. I'm surprised his immortality didn't end right then and there.

Or, maybe, just maybe, there will be fish in heaven. After all, there will be a living stream flowing from the throne, across the threshold, and it will be full of fish, according to Ezekiel.

"It will come about that every living creature which swarms in every place where the river goes, will live. And there will be very many fish, for these waters go there and the others become fresh; so everything will live where the river goes." Ezekiel 47:9

Verse 10 includes, "And it will come about that fishermen will stand beside it . . . for the spreading of nets. Their fish will be according to their kinds, like the fish of the Great Sea, very many."

I know that passage is about the restoration of Jerusalem (although I don't know whether it's earthly or heavenly) so maybe Jesus ate fish from an unclean place (Galilee).

But if meat eaters won't be translated, what about people wearing wigs, tight-waisted skirts, [EGW would have inclued high-heel shoes today], milk, cheese, and butter eaters/drinkers. Man, good thing Jesus didn't come when EGW was alive. She would have missed the boat!

Cheers!
Angie (Angie)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 6:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I t's been awhile since anyone has posted on this tread,but I have a question,in Romans14,it talks about not eating meat IF it is a stumbling block for another.Does this mean that I shouldn't eat it if it offends my husband? And it would when/if he goes back to sda.Another question,not relating to this tread,but...in Romans11 I think,it is talking about the Jews being the chosen of God,is that taling about Isreal the country,Jews,or both,being one in the same?I was taught that the Jews 'had their chance,and were cut off.For the first time I read in the New Living Version [REALLY good one Doug]and it says different,I think?
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great questions Angie! I am looking forward to reading other's responses. I am short on time, so I'll respond later. Doug
Doc (Doc)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Angie,

Just some thoughts on being offended. I did not know how to deal with this one for a while. I am British, but I have been living in Central Europe (Hungary) for the last eight years, and very many of the churches here are exremely legalisitic and the people are very good at taking offense.
So, if you are a young female convert, and you come to church wearing make-up or jewelery, or if you don't put a headscarf on, or if anyone finds you have been to the cinema or had a meal in a restaurant, or if anyone prays or preaches without using the appropriate relgious phraseology - then the brethren will take offense and maybe not be able to bear to come to church for a month because they are so upset, and it will be YOUR FAULT!
I then read an article (sorry, can't remember where) which made the contrast between weak brethren and false brethren, which I found very helpful.
In the case of weak brethren, Paul says (Rom 14) we must be careful not to do anything which will cause someone weak, or perhaps new in the faith, to fall away from Christ. For instance, if I eat meat sacrificed to an idol (1st century situation), knowing this is OK, as an idol has no real existence, but someone who has just been converted out of heathenism sees me, thinks it is OK for him too, and thus falls back into pagan religion, then I have "caused him to stumble."
However, there are also false brethren, like the Judaisers in Galatia (cf. Gal 2: 4). These people make up ridiculous rules, try to impose them on everyone, and get insulted if no-one listens.
This is just manipulative and controlling, and the person imposing the rules will not "fall away from Christ" if others do not keep them, even if they do take offense.
So, I think Romans 14 is not about making sure you do nothing to cause others to take offense (after all, Jesus offended the Pharisees all the time - Matthew 15: 12), but to be sure to do nothing to cause others to fall away from walking with Christ.
Hope it was clear (enough).
God bless,
Doc
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent explanation Doc. Very well said!
Janice (Janice)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doc, I wanted to throw this verse in before bedtime:

1Cr 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

1Cr 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

Thought you could use this in your discussion with Angie.

Angie, My mother and sister were meat-eaters for years before joining the SDA and don't mind if I eat meat in front of them but for someone like your husband who was raised vegetarian, I don't think that I would want to sit down in front of him just yet with a ham sandwich. The verses that I quoted state that people that have that mind set are "weak" and that means simply that they don't have the faith that it takes to believe that God has truly made all things clean and nothing to be refused. Anyone though should know that you can get too much of anything and it will make you sick. Out of respect and a show of cooperation on your part, maybe you should save meat for eating sometime when your husband isn't around. Just a thought.

Love from Janice
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doc, great explanation!

Angie, ask God to help you know how to handle the meat issue with your husband. I'll repeat Doc's point, though--the prohibition on meat eating was to prevent weak brothers from falling away from Christ. That is probably not the issue between you and your husband.

How you handle the issue, however, is important for other reasons including the question of how you show respect to him. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't eat it; I'm just saying how you handle the issue will be important. Meat isn't really the question here. It may present itself as the primary issue, but it will really be a facade for deeper issues of loyalty to Jesus, loyalty to your husband, respect and submission to your husband while remaining true to your new relationship with Jesus, etc.

Ask God to show you how to love your husband for Him, how to remain calm and non-defensive, how to respect and love your husband in spite of conflict, etc.

You are not walking an easy road, but Jesus walks it with you.

With prayers for you,
Colleen
Angie (Angie)
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Janice and Colleen,First of all,Jerry didn't grow up vegitarian,if he had,I don't think it would be an issue.The fact that he does like meat is the 'stumbling block'.If I ate it,he would be tempted,therefore,as far as his thinking goes,he would go to Hell for 'defiling his body'.Even when we were adventist,I still ate 'clean meat'from time to time,but he refused to let our son eat it.Now the older kids would eat whatever any chance they got.But I just cannot see making them not eat it just b/c he is'weak'.It seems like to me,that would be wrong to let them,or our son, grow up believing that what goes in your mouth defiles the body,when that isn't what the Bible teaches.Why do I have to submitt on this ,and many other beliefs,when I think that I am the one that has the real truth,the Bible,not EGW???That is my problem,isn't it wrong to let my children be deceived with all that garbage that isn't even salvational issues??? Angie
Doc (Doc)
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Angie,

I see your problem is rather complex. My post really was theoretical, not taking into account the real situation.
However, you say your husband believes he would be in danger of hell for eating meat. This is not a true belief. The danger is, if he does not eat meat, this may give him a false sense of security. He thinks he is OK, because he is not eating meat. This may prevent him finding the real security, which is only in Jesus.
People don't like to have their false securities challenged, but it may be helpful in the long run to risk doing it.
God bless you with lots of wisdom,
Doc
Angie (Angie)
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doc,yea you are right,it is just a false sence of security.If you ask me,in trying to keep the letter of the law,is a false sence of security.You keep all the 10,and you think you are saved just b/c you do,and from my experience,that's just what adventist believe!! God Bless, Angie
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I completely agree with Doc, Angie. And you do haved an obligation to your kids not to promote a false belief in defiling themselves by what they eat. The issue behind the meat eating in your husband's case is not Jesus; it's a false understanding of the Bible.

The issue behind meat eating in Corinthians was Jesus. If new Christians who had been pagans ate meat offered to their old pagan deities, they would have a flood of habitual memories and emotional responses to those deities just because they participated in eating sacrificial meat. It would trigger feelings of loyalty and familiarity that could draw them back to those rituals they participated in when pagans. That's what Paul meant by not eating meat (for him those pagan deities had no pull; he could eat that meat without any emotional response at all) if it would cause a brother to fall.

In your case, eating meat is not about causing a brother to fall from Christ. But again, I understand the complexity of your situation, and I will also pray for you to have wisdom and the mind of Christ.

Colleen

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