| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
NEW TESTAMENT SHOCKER: 4TH COMMANDMENT GONE! OTHER NINE FOUND! ONLY FOURTH STILL MISSING! Dear Adventist Friend: The news can now be told: The Fourth Commandment of the Old Testament (OT) is missing from the New Testament (NT). Entirely! The other Nine are all there. The Fourth alone is gone! Want proof? Here it is (NIV): OT First Commandment -- Exodus 20:3. You shall have no other gods before me. NT First Commandment ñ Acts 17:22-24. Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: ìMen of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth.î -- 1 Corinthians 8:5,6. ìFor even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'), yet for us there is but one God.î OT Second Commandment ñ Exodus 20:4. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. NT Second Commandment ñ 1 Corinthians 10:7. Do not be idolaters. ñ 1 Corinthians 10:14: Flee from idolatry. OT Third Commandment ñ Exodus 20:7. You shall not misuse the name of the LORD [Yahweh] your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. NT Third Commandment ñ Matthew 5:33-37. You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ëDo not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord. But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is Godís throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your ëYesí be ëYes,í and your ëNo,í ëNoí; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." OT Fourth Commandment ñ Exodus 20:8-11. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. NT Fourth Commandment ñ Sorry, my good Adventist friend. But I searched long and hard and consulted reference works. But I could find NO SABBATH COMMANDMENT. If you think I have made a mistake, I invite you to post below the text containing it. OT Fifth Commandment ñ Exodus 20:12. Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. NT Fifth Commandment ñ Ephesians 6:2,3. ìHonor your father and motherî ñ which is the first commandment with a promise ñ ìthat it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.î OT Sixth Commandment ñ Exodus 20:13. You shall not murder. NT Sixth Commandment ñ Matthew 5:21,22. ìYou have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ëDo not murder,í and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.í But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.î OT Seventh Commandment ñ Exodus 20:14. You shall not commit adultery. NT Seventh Commandment ñ Matthew 5:27,28. ìYou have heard that it was said, ëDo not commit adultery.í But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.î OT Eighth Commandment ñ Exodus 20:15. You shall not steal. NT Eighth Commandment ñ Matthew 19:18. Do not steal. ñ Romans 13:9. Do not steal. OT Ninth Commandment ñ Exodus 20.You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. NT Ninth Commandment ñ Matthew 19:18. Do not give false testimony. ñ Luke 18:20. Do not give false testimony. OT Tenth Commandment ñ Exodus 20:17. You shall not covet your neighborís house. You shall not covet your neighborís wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. NT Tenth Commandment ñ Luke 12:15 ìBe on your guard against all kinds of greed.î ñ Romans 7:7-9 I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ìDo not covet.î But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in my every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. -- Ephesians 5:3. Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for Godís holy people. ñ Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have. There is the scriptural evidence right before your face, my dear Adventist friend. And in it there is a terribly glaring omission. Was it deliberate? I believe it was. Did New Testament writers leave the Sabbath Commandment out on purpose? I believe they did. If you think otherwise, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts. Or maybe I missed something. Perhaps you could find a keep-the-Sabbath-holy commandment in the New Testament and point it out to me. I would be grateful if you would post it in this Discussion immediately. So that I may post a rapid retraction. I ask you careful and prayerful consideration of this purely scriptural evidence. I think it means that there is no "keep the Sabbath day holy" commandment incumbent on New Testament, new covenant believers! What do you think? I think it means that keeping the seventh-day holy was only a shadow pointing to the reality, or ìsubstance,î as Paul puts it. And when that reality came, the shadow disappeared and with it the Commandment! What do you think? It disappeared from the practices of the Christian church. Don't you agree? And it disappeared from the pages of the New Testament. And don't you agree with this as well? Whatever you think about this, I would appreciate a response from you. For I think the ìSabbath as a test of whoís saved and who isnítî is of grave and eternal importance. In grace plus nothing, faith plus nothing, and Christ plus nothing, And patiently awaiting your response, I am, Jude | ||
| jtree |
Jude, my friend, what about if one reply's.. "Oh wait a minute oops sorry just read Luke 23:56, guess you are wrong AGAIN!" | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Pal Joshua, My condolences. Your guess was mistaken. Doesn't mean I love you any less, though. Hang in there! For all the rest of you webhounds out there, why not let's all read Luke 23:56 NIV together? "Then they [the women who had come with Jesus from Galilee] went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." You see, my friends, this is not a command to the reader. This is a line from a narrative, a story, a faithful account of what happened: The women "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." What commandment? A New Testament commandment? Was Luke referring to a New Testament commandment? If you think so, please locate it for me. Otherwise, kindly agree with me that it was an Old Testament commandment, the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue, that motivated the women. There is nothing wrong with that commandment -- not as long as you don't try to make it a test of salvation. Or something other than a shadow pointing to Jesus Christ, in whom is found "the reality" (Colossians 2:17). And Christians are allowed to keep the Saturday holy, just as they are allowed to keep Sunday holy, or to consider all days alike as holy (Romans 14). But the command itself is nowhere to be found in the New Testament. To say that the resting incident recorded in Luke 23:56 is a command to New Testament readers to keep the Sabbath day holy is exactly like saying that Luke's account (Luke 4:16) of Jesus going into the synagogue on the Sabbath day "as was his custom," is a New Testament command for all readers to keep the Fourth Commandment. Only trouble is, neither text says that. Grammatically, neither is in the command mode, but each is in the declarative mode. So my challenge still stands: Find the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue in the New Testament. The other Nine are there. Why not the Fourth. Still willing to be shown, Jude | ||
| jtree |
Jude, my friend ol buddy ol pal, thank you for that post. I agree and I like your wording better than I can explain it (when I'm dead tired and need REST so badly, I work 2 jobs to stay afloat in life). | ||
| jtree |
Jude, I had a come back on what you stated.. They "Refute this post with one sentence." "Oh, my friend, but you forget Jesus Christ, who made the ultimate example for man; He even healed the sick on the Sabbath, and rebuked the Jewish leaders for the ultimate hypocrisy they presented! P.S. This speaks volumes. I'm sorry your little non-sequitur didn't work out." Do you have some insite to speak to this person? SO I can pass them the GOOD NEWS? | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Hi Joshua, Yes, you may export the post below to your friends on the other website. Jude ########### ########### Dear Adventist Friend: JESUS BROKE THE SABBATH. He broke it so that he could replace it with something better, something superior -- himself. Here's how: For years ñ about a hundred and fifty! ñ you and/or other SDA apologists have argued that Jesus was not REALLY doing what the apostle John (John 5:16-18 NIV) unambiguously and unequivocally said he was doing: ^^^^^^^^^^^ Because Jesus was doing these things [working] on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, ìMy Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.î For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ^^^^^^^^^^^ You have also argued that Jesus did not break the Sabbath -- the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue -- but only ìthe TRADITIONS of men.î But you are mistaken, and you have been mistaken all along. And right here, right now, I am going to prove this to you: That regardless of whether Jesus broke ìthe traditions of men,î he broke the letter of the law of Moses. I do not argue that he broke the Spirit of the law. He himself as God was and remains the Spirit of the law. Therefore he did not -- and indeed cannot -- break himself. But he did indeed break the LETTER of the law. Even if it was his own finger that was writing the letter of the law on two stone tablets on Mt. Sinai. Hereís my proof. Data Point No. 1: As God he MIXED a clay poultice on the Sabbath (John 9:6-15). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work.î Data Point No. 2: As God he allowed his disciples to REAP wheat on the Sabbath and defended them against the Phariseesí charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. Data Point No. 3: As God he allowed his disciples to THRESH wheat (rub it between their hands so that the chaff fell away) on the Sabbath and defended them against the Phariseesí charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. Data Point No. 4: As God he commanded a man to PICK UP his sleeping mat and TRANSPORT it on the Sabbath (John 5:1-19). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. Data Point No. 5: As God he allowed Peterís mother-in-law to ìWAIT ON himî or ìMINISTER UNTO him [KJV]î on the Sabbath (Matthew 8:13-16). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. And so, my Adventist friend, these very texts themselves disprove your argument of 150 years standing that he broke only ìthe TRADITIONS of men.î He broke the letter of the law. Furthermore, insofar as he broke one part of the STATEMENT of the law, he broke the whole thing. And he not only broke it, but he ~ abolished it in his flesh on the cross (Ephesians 2:14-18), ~ canceled it (Colossians 2:14), and ~ nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14). Your argument is mistaken and has always been mistaken. For Jesus broke the LETTER of the law, the STATEMENT of the law, his own law, written with his own finger. Because he had the RIGHT to break it, for he was and is God. Furthermore, again as God, he had the right to RESTATE it. Or to REINSTATE it. And hereís how in his sovereign will he chose to do exactly that: The word ìsabbathî means ìrest.î With that in mind, letís read Hebrews 4:1-13 NIV: ^^^^^^^^^^^ Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Now WE WHO HAVE BELIEVED ENTER THAT REST, just as God has said, ìSo I declared on oath in my anger, ëThey shall never enter my rest.í And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: ìAnd on the seventh day God rested from all his work.î And again in the passage above he says, ìThey shall never enter my rest.î It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore GOD AGAIN SET A CERTAIN DAY, calling it TODAY, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: ìToday, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.î For IF JOSHUA HAD GIVEN THEM REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN LATER ABOUT ANOTHER DAY. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters Godís rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from Godís sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. ^^^^^^^^^^^ The passage just quoted unequivocally and unambiguously tells you that the GOSPEL of belief in Jesus Christ IS the SABBATH-rest. The seventh-day Sabbath was a type (shadow) that met its fulfillment in Jesus Christ as the antitype (reality). The STATEMENT of the law has been replaced with a PERSON who himself ñ in his acts and teachings -- IS the law. Therefore, belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Savior IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY of keeping the Sabbath under the new covenant. I ask you to prayerfully consider my argument for Jesus Christ and then to reply here under this Discussion. In grace alone, faith alone and Scripture alone, Jude ########### ########### | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Joshua, Here's another post you may export to the other website if you wish. Jude ########### ########### Newsflash! SDA Exclusive! GOD-ON-EARTH SMASHES SABBATH LAW! Immediate attention: Seventh-day Adventists around the world! Dateline 28-30AD, Judea. Accounts from official correspondents Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have now confirmed early rumors that God-on-Earth from Galilee has utterly smashed the 1500-year-old Jewish law proscribing work on the Sabbath. If judicial, ecclesiastical, prophetic and royal annals are correct, it is HIS OWN STATEMENT of the law ñ written with HIS OWN FINGER on two tablets of stone ñ that he himself has now smashed to bits. Reports are that God-on-Earth is to be arrested and indicted by temple and Sanhedrin authorities on the following counts: Indictment-and-Arrest Count #1. Permitting his disciples to REAP grain on the Sabbath and defending their conduct to the Sabbath police. Luke 6:1-5. Type of Sabbath-day work prohibited: Agricultural. Indictment-and-Arrest Count #2. Permitting his disciples to THRESH grain on the Sabbath and defending their conduct to the religious police. Luke 6:1-5. Type of Sabbath-day work prohibited: Light industrial (food processing). Indictment-and-Arrest Count #3. Allowing Simon Peterís mother-in-law to ìWAIT ONî him on the Sabbath. Matthew 8:14. Type of Sabbath-day work prohibited: Domestic (waiting tables and chairs). Indictment-and-Arrest Count #4. Commanding a man allegedly invalid 38 years to LIFT his bed on the Sabbath. John 5:1-30. Type of Sabbath-day work prohibited: Light industrial (lifting and loading). Indictment-and-Arrest Count #5. Commanding a man allegedly invalid 38 years to CARRY his bed on the Sabbath. John 5:1-30. Type of Sabbath-day work prohibited: Light industrial (transportation). Indictment-and-Arrest Count #6. MIXING spittle and clay to form a poultice to place on the eyes of a man allegedly born blind on the Sabbath. John 9:1-41. Type of Sabbath-day work prohibited: Light industrial (pharmaceutical). Jewish government officials refuse to return inquiries as to plans for prosecution and trial. But unsubstantiated bulletins have arrived reporting are that they are holding these charges in abeyance while waiting to apprehend God-on-Earth without bail for a much more serious offense, one requiring the death penalty. What the nature of this allegedly much more heinous crime is and any further news will be broadcast as soon as it becomes available. Stay tuned, Jude ########### ########### | ||
| Richard W. |
Luke 23:56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes and rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment............... Above you said you could not find anything in the New Testament about the Sabbath commandment. Well, here is just one!!! God Bless you | ||
| Timo |
Richard, Didn't the end time start at pentacost? Or did it start when Jesus died or acended to heven? When did the New Covenat be effective? Already at the cross or when Christ whent to Heven? (or at pentacost) Maybe my questios are irrelevant to this discussion?? timo | ||
| Max |
Dear Richard W., Thanks for pointing out that beautiful text. However, it is not a New Testament commandment, is it? Read it carefully. It is only a New Testament reference to an Old Testament commandment. The fact that the women were keeping it is irrelevant to the assertion that there is no New Testament command to keep the Sabbath. None! Nowhere! Nowhow! No way! Just gone! Absent! Now here is a genuine New Testament commandment: ^^ One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. ^^ --Romans 14:5-6 NIV. Under real grace alone, Max | ||
| Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker) |
Good point, Richard Jr.! The women, however, were observant Jews still under the Old Covenant. Jesus' resurrection wasn't know to them yetóat least, not when they prepared the spices and set out for the tomb! Remember when Jesus cautioned Peter, James, and John not to tell anyone about the transfiguration until after his resurrection? I'm convinced that was because no one, not even the disciples, would understand the significance of the law and the prophets being fulfilled and replaced by Jesus himself until the reality of his death and resurrection happened and ushered in the New Covenant. And, as Timo mentioned, the Church actually began when God sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. God's presence on earth was finally in its New Covenant templeóhuman hearts. Resting in my true Sabbath, Colleen | ||
| Wendy Forsyth |
Dear Max, Christ demonstrated the error that the Jews had regarding the legalistic way they were keeping the Sabbath. It was silly to claim sin for carrying a handkerchief,etc. He said "I have come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it". He came to more fully explain the Sabbath just as he expanded the law in the sermon on the mount. He knew that he could not simply tell the jews to stop being so legalistic about the law in the simple manner he explained the others. This was because the problem was so deeply rooted. He came and demonstrated by His own actions how they, and we were and are to keep the Sabbath. I agree that Jesus is our true Sabbath rest. I challenge you however to show me a text where Christ verbally abolished the Sabbath himself. Not simply some misinterpreted text by an apostle. You quote Romans as the Law of God as if it were spoken by Christ himself. Even though it was not. The Bible is God's inspired Word, yet you take the word of an apostle over the actions of Jesus Christ himself. Yes, many Adventist today keep the dictates of the church in the same way as the pharisees. But, yes there are some of us out there who do the things God has asked of us simply out of the devotion we have for our Lord and Saviour. "Here is the patience of the saints...they that keep my commandments". Where are these that keep His commandments. Reigning with Him. Where are they that keep not the commandments? You know, "the smoke of their torment..."etc.,etc. If you truly have this rest in Christ Jesus, why is it such an unbearable burden to keep God's Laws. "Take up my yoke,for my yoke is easy and my burden is light". What is this yoke? The commands he has given us. Why is it light? Because we rest in Jesus. And guess what Max. I learned all that from the Bible itself. Not Ellen White. The Bible stands alone as throughout eternity. Doesn't mean Ellen is useless. God did speak through her. She didn't ever claim to be infallible. That is something the relatives and church put on her after her death for their own gain. After her death, because they knew she never would have sanctioned it. God Bless you in your study and may your heart be softened and lead you back to truth. Take care, Wendy | ||
| Max |
Hi Wendy, Would it be all right to take one thing at a time? I would like to point your attention to Exodus 16:29 NIV: ^^ Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out. ^^ Wendy, do you personally keep this commandment faithfully? Or do you break the commandment of God and travel to church and elsewhere on the Sabbath? Real grace alone, Max | ||
| Wendy Forsyth |
Max Max Max, YOU know as well as I do that Christ demonstrated the distorted way the Pharisees were keeping the Sabbath. The pharisees looked to the Law and its keeping for salvation. Christ showed them undeniably that salvation is through Him alone. He also did not say "just because you've been doing it wrong, let's throw it away". No, he said "here, you've made a mistake, let me show you the right way". Just another example of His grace and everlasting patience. | ||
| Max |
Wendy, dear friend, Allow me to repost a statement you must have missed: Dear SDA Friend: JESUS DID NOT REFORM THE SABBATH, HE FULFILLED IT! Dr. Desmond Ford says Jesus tried to reform the Sabbath: ìHe [Jesus] even risked His mission and life in performing seven (recorded) miracles on the holy day to demonstrate that true Sabbath-keeping brought blessing not injury. Never did He defend any institution soon to pass away.î Desmond Ford, THE FORGOTTEN DAY, p.209. Dr. Ford is just plain wrong. Here's how: With zero scriptural evidence, he simply ASSUMES or SUPPOSES that Jesusí Sabbath miracles demonstrated Sabbath reform. But Scripture clearly demonstrates otherwise. The truth as it is in Scripture: Never did Jesus defend the Sabbath laws. Scripture says that everything Jesus said or did regarding the Sabbath demonstrates that our God-on-Earth was breaking the Sabbath laws, commanding others to do so, defending them when they did, and defending his own words and actions in breaking the Sabbath laws as unambiguously stated in the Torah. Item #1. HEALTH AND MEDICAL LABOR. The seven Sabbath miracles constituted an outright, in-the-Pharisaic-face breaking of the expression (wording or ìletterî) of the Fourth Commandment: ìRemember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work [doctoring, nursing, med-teching, etc.], but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do ANY work[neither doctoring nor nursing nor med-teching, etc.], neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.î Exodus 20:8-11 NIV. Jesus did not break the Spirit of the law, since he himself was its Spirit and he could not break himself. But he broke the statement of the law. And I donít care how many PhDs you hold, you have simply no way to get around this simple, blunt FACT of Scripture. If the work prohibition had excluded healing work, then Dr. Fordís claim might have some merit. But unfortunately for the good doctorís argument, there simply was no exemption in the law of the Fourth Commandment for health and medical work. Period. And if you donít think health and medical work isnít ìreal work,î I would invite you to share your opinion with the tens of thousands of good Seventh-day Adventist physicians, nurses, medical technicians and other allied health-care professionals the world around. Let them know the work theyíre doing isnít ìreal work.î And so therefore they shouldnít get paid. On second thought, youíd better not. Not, that is, if you value your life and limb. In addition to doing health and medical work on the Sabbath ñ in direct disobedience to the stated command (though not the Spirit) of the law, Jesus performed, commanded, allowed and defended other forms of Sabbath labor. Item #2. PHARMACEUTICAL LABOR: Quarrying and mixing of earthen medicinals. As God he MIXED a clay poultice on the Sabbath (John 9:6-15). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work.î Item #3: AGRICULTURAL LABOR. Reaping grain. As God he allowed his disciples to REAP wheat on the Sabbath and defended them against the Phariseesí charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. Item #4: AGRICULTURAL LABOR Threshing grain. As God he allowed his disciples to THRESH wheat (rub it between their hands so that the chaff fell away) on the Sabbath and defended them against the Phariseesí charges of Sabbath-breaking (Luke 6:1-5). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. Item #5: TEAMSTER LABOR: Lifting, loading, and transportation of furniture. As God he commanded a man to (1) PICK UP his sleeping mat, (2) LOAD it on his shoulder (or crook of his arm or the top of his head) and (3) TRANSPORT it on the Sabbath (John 5:1-19). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. Item #6: WAITRESSING: Waiting tables, chairs, etc. As God he allowed Peterís mother-in-law to ìWAIT ON himî or ìMINISTER UNTO him [KJV]î on the Sabbath (Matthew 8:13-16). Law broken: the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue as unambiguously stated in Exodus 20:10 NIV: ìThe seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.î In other words, NOBODY under your command is exempt. And so, my Adventist friend, Scripture abundantly contradicts and falsifies Dr. Fordís assertion. Furthermore, he has NO SCRIPTURE AT ALL to support his view. I would hope and pray that Dr. Ford would see the light, even as he saw the light on the falsity of the investigative judgment. Considering ìevery day alikeî (Romans 14:5 NIV), Jude/Max | ||
| Wendy Forsyth |
Dearest Max, Don't you think that you are assuming you know what Jesus meant by his actions, much in the same way Mr.Ford assumed he knew what Jesus meant? Considering that we should worship everyday our Lord and Saviour yet not mock Him by discarding His Holy Day, Wendy (Do you need a new granddaughter?Just asking.) | ||
| Max |
Hi Wendy, No, I did a thesis in graduate school (seminary). The title of my thesis was "Jesus Broke the Sabbath." I went into an in-depth study of the Mishnah and the Talmud on the Sabbath. And against my wishes I discovered that there is no question from a scholarly standpoint but that Jesus broke the written Sabbath laws. Ask a Jewish rabbi, if you desire independent confirmation. The professors in seminary obviously did not like what I had discovered, but they never argued against it. Becsuse they knew I was right. Real grace alone, Max | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Hello all, I found this to be an appropriate thread to post this link: http://www.bible.ca/7-2laws.htm Hope you all enjoy this and learn much! Peace and God Bless. Denise Gilmore |
