| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
SDA Exclusive! GOD DECLARES ALL FOODS CLEAN! Dear Adventist Friend, Jesus is God, right? God on earth. Isnít that what the name Emanuel means? "God with Us"? Or, if you donít like that, how about this: Jesus answered [the Jews who didnít believe he was God], ìBefore Abraham was born, I am!î Echoing God who ìsaid to Moses, ëI AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ìI AM has sent me to you.îíî Exodus 3:14 NIV. The text note below says, ìI AM WHO I AM. The name by which God wished to be known and worshiped in Israel ñ the name that expressed his character as the dependable and faithful God who desires the full trust of his peopleÖ. I AM. The shortened form of the nameÖ. Jesus applied the phrase to himself; in so doing he claimed to be God and risked being stoned for blasphemy.î Convinced? God! Not Michael the archangel. Not Luciferís twin brother in heaven. Not ìour example.î Not ìour elder brother.î Not somebody born with ìsinful flesh.î Not half-human and half-divine. Not a human body possessed by the Holy Spirit. Not a divine figment manifesting as human. God! 100% God! All right, now that thatís settled, What did Jesus the God-Man say about food? Very simple: ìJesus declared all foods clean.î Mark 7:19 NIV. Period. Now I donít want to hear any more garbage, such as I read in the official SDA MINISTRY: INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL FOR PASTORS a few months back, telling people of the cloth around the globe Mark meant to say, ìJesus declared all CLEAN foods clean.î For he, Jesus, wouldnít dare against his own law! Nonsense. Utter trash, my good friends at MINISTRY! Let God be God! Not you! ìJesus declared all foods clean.î Pork chops, honey baked ham, New England clam chowder, Red Lobster, shrimp, scallops, scrod, eel, swordfish, octopus, squid ñ ALL FOODS CLEAN! Just thought youíd like to know that. Any questions? Grace and peace as you prayerfully exercise your freedom in Christ, Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Jude, I love the phrase you use, "Let God be God." God's sovereignty was not a part of my Adventist understanding of reality. God's omni-everything (sience, presence, etc.) was hammered home, but actual sovereignty? No. We can't dissect God's motives. We can only accept what he tells us as true. What amazes me is that the more I internalize the reality of God's sovereignty, the less confusing the Bible becomes and the more freedom-with-accountability I experience. (Paradox?) Yes, unclean foods were a central part of God's restrictions for Israel. Yes, God subsequently declares ALL FOODS to be clean for his people. This fact could launch a detailed discussion of the New Covenant. Let God be God! Colleen | ||
| Bill Twisse |
Jude, you're right on target with this one! I enjoyed your comments on who Jesus is even more than those regarding what he said about food, which are absolutely true. "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch" is mere human wisdom and has no value in checking the flesh (Col. 2:21). It is part of the vain philosophy of this world. We are exhorted by Paul to judge no man from a worldly point of view (I can't remember the verse right now--it is 5:20 A.M. where I am and my mind is tired, but we know it is in the Bible). Those of us who were raised in SDA teaching did that very thing continuously. What is a worldly point of view? If I enter a pub and see a man drinking a beer and puffing a cigarette, my upbringing would cause me to view HIM as the worldling. In reality, I am the worldling if I think that his use of these things means anything at all. I am judging him on the basis of the carnal & vain philosphies of this world. My concern in that instance is merely that if someone is tasting what I believe to be the wrong thing--he is opposing God. What a devilish philosophy! God could care less about any of this. Sure, we are to take seriously the stewardship of our bodies. But a particular instance of the use of a common substance means nothing whatsoever. Let us view others from the perspective of God's grace & forgiveness. --Twisse | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Guys, Very good guys. The one post I'm working on at home should bring this into focus. At least from my personal point of view. "What is a worldly point of view?" I can hardly wait to get home to take the partially finished post off ice to the Forum. It will, I'm sure, raise up some lively discussion! After a week of silence, I'm really ready and chompin' at the bit;-) Maryann | ||
| sherry |
Now I'm not trying to put a monkey wrench here or anything. I think you are right on target. I chose to eat very little of meats though and have a soft heart for animals in general and hate the misues that is out there period. But what should I do with this?...my husband's Grandmother who is a loving funny woman that anyone of you would enjoy being around,does tell the story of how when they became Adventists and convicted not to eat pork, they prayed about it for they were farmers and had pigs, and didn't know what to do about them. So they approached the throne of Grace in prayer about it, and that very night there was a terrible storm, and they found all their pigs dead the next day. What do you do with that? I know from their lives they serve the same God I do....so what do I do with that? | ||
| Max |
Seems very strange that all the pigs would die in a storm. Pigs are very strong, resilient, intelligent animals that survive terrible storms in the wild all the time. Seems as though a storm that powerful would have torn their farmhouse apart before it would have killed their pigs! | ||
| sherry |
No, they were struck by lightning.. | ||
| Max |
Sherry, Ah, well, I'm sure God had some purpose in what happened, then. But I'm equally sure his purpose did not contradict his Word. Remember Jesus sent evil spirits into a herd of pigs and so maddened the poor animals that they ran into the Sea of Galilee and drown. But very soon after that event (Mark 5) happened Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7). So whatever God's purpose was in drowning the pigs, we know it was NOT to reinforce the old covenant ban on eating pork. Who knows why God allowed the farm family's pigs to be struck by lightning and killed? Things are seldom what they seem, n'est pas? Max | ||
| Debbie |
A thought entered my mind as I read Sherry's post about her family's pigs being struck by lightening. In Job, chapter 1, Satan asked God for permission to send calamity on Job. In verse 16 of chapter 1, it says that "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the SHEEP and the servants..." Well, we all know that SHEEP are clean. Thus, it couldn't have been that God burned the sheep up because He didn't want Job to eat them, right??? So, it seems to me that a better explanation for what happened to the pigs was that it was a trial that God (for his own purposes) allowed Satan to impose on Sherry's parents (grandparents?). Their interpretation of it fell right into Satan's purpose ANYTIME he works--TO DECEIVE US AND LEAD US ASTRAY FROM GOD'S PURE AND PERFECT TRUTH. For when we know the truth, the truth sets us free. (John 8:32) I hope this helps! Love in Christ, Debbie | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Debbie, Great Bible story re-call. That really put a different angle to our, "recovering" SDA, pre-conceived ideas of the whys, reasons and whatfores we have been conditioned to think! Maryann | ||
| Darrell |
A couple of years ago I was volunteering for my local churches "Discover Bible School", and I had a lesson to "correct" on the subject of dietary laws. The "student" had written back citing several Bible texts showing that the dietary laws were no longer binding on Christians. The verses she used included Mark 7:19, 1 Tim 4:1-5, and part of Rom 14. I asked the school leader what I should do, because the lady was right, in fact I had another text I could add, Col 2:13-23. Of course this started an argument, which I didn't really want to be involved in, so the leader took the lesson (with my blessing) and contacted the student. I later met this student, and she is a fine Christian lady, secure in her faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. | ||
| Carla (Carla) |
I've had doubts for several years about SDAs stand on unclean foods. I haven't went back to eating them as of yet and I don't know that I ever will. I'm afraid they would make me sick after having done without them for so long. I don't really miss them anyway. Turkey bacon and ham are good enough for me.  | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
So long as we all understand that ìcleanî and ìuncleanî in the Bible is a spiritual and ceremonial designation, I think there is no problem with making decisions about what to eat based on what keeps us healthy or not. I (as well as most others here) have no need to insist that you immediately wolf down a full slab of greasy ribs, a dozen pigís knuckles, or an armís length of knockwurst sausage. If you are doing well with your diet, continue in good health. Personally, I have not had meat in a long time, with a few minor exceptions. I am having a little trouble with eating so many soy products, but I will solve that soon. Those times when I unwittingly had some ham in a salad did not kill me or put me into a hospital. However, you could be right about your possible reaction after not having meat in your diet for a long time. Donít sweat the small stuff. Jerry | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Carla, as you study the New Testament and begin to see how it emerges from the foundation of the old, the food laws and other laws we believed we had to keep begin to take on their proper perspective. God made Israel for himself, and because they were essentially pagan when they emerged from Egypt, he gave them strict and visible behaviors to set them apart from the nations around them. The food laws were part of the "setting apart", that being a holy people. Those laws were not eternal statements of being righteous or being saved. They were about being Israelites and about obeying Yaweh. Jesus is our point of reference and obedience now. He has extended grace and forgiveness to all people. His people are all of us who accept him...even us Gentiles! You do not need to eat any food you don't feel comfortable eating. My husband still can't eat meat, and it's not because he believes it's wrong. It's simply because he can't think of it as food! The good news is that Christ has given us freedom in him--freedom to trust him, freedom to let him change our hearts, freedom to listen to His Spirit in us as He brings us to life and connects us to God! As Jesus said, it's not what goes into the mouth that makes a man unclean. It's what comes out of the man that declares him unclean, because out comes the human wickedness that is our inheritance. When we are born again, however, we are new creations, and we have a new family--the family of God! No longer are we dead in sin; we are alive in Christ, and nothing can take us out of his hands! (Not even shellfish--which I can't stand!) Praising God for new life, Colleen |
