| Author |
Message |
jtree
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 6:13 pm: |     |
My own personal experience with Ellen G. White, is not in her doctrine, I rejected it, when SDA got involved with me, and much study, many bells in my head went off as warning, these studies I was doing was not in accord with SOUND DOCTRINE.
But anyways...my experience with Ellen....
I was searching the Old cemetary in Battle Creek, for some relatives that are buried there. I ran across her grave. that is how close I was to Ellen. I had to go back another day. And saw her again.
I'm into Genealogy. I have corresponded much with a wife of a decendant of Ellen G. White. She laughs at all the great web sites, that say much about her late husbands ancestor, Ellen. She says they are great. She collect much of her husbands ancestor as well.
BTW..in my family history, they organized the first Seventh Day Baptist church in the colonies. |
sherry
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 6:24 pm: | |
That site was helpful, Lydell. But let me explain why I want to get at least acouple of those old books that she borrowed from....Desire of Ages for example has some beautiful stuff in it. I would love to be able to enjoy it from the hands of the original writer, and know that that person wrote it. But yes, that sight was helpful. God bless to all as we seek to know Him more. |
Plain Patti
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 7:23 pm: | |
FYI
I just got the Slattery book from Amazon.com. I haven't read it yet. It cost only $3.99. |
Plain Patti
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 7:24 pm: | |
And thank you, Timo, for the info on the Brinsmead and Paxton books!
I will check it out. |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 7:43 pm: | |
Hi Sherry,
If you want to enjoy the original textual material found in the Desire of Ages, you're going to have to go back beyond Ellen G. White, for she copied almost all of it from earlier writers. This has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by Dr. Fred Veltman, who spent at least two years studying the books she (actually her secrtetaries) copied from. Veltman ended up with a 1000 page document which you can purchase from the General Conference for a princely sum.
Jude |
Plain Patti
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 8:48 pm: | |
I have read the "Pat Darnell" book. I can give it a very personal review. I can attest to its authenticity. In fact, I contributed a little to that book. I could even ADD to that book, couldn't I, Mom? :)
(Thanks for your kind review, Josh.) |
Bruce H
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 11:07 pm: | |
Palorenz
You can have the book The White lie just call
1-877-egw-myth and give me your phone and or
address and I will send it to you. |
Question
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2000 - 11:17 pm: | |
I am under the impression that the complete Veltman report is no longer available. It it available? |
Joni
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 2:24 am: | |
Jude,
Thanks for your reply. I have ordered the book. It is interesting that in the sda church a person can usually depend on someone knowing someone!! (or even out of the sda church)
Joni |
Palorenz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 10:56 am: | |
Jude,
Let me see if understand correctly: A guy named Fred Veltman did research on where EGW really got her material from (ie. borrowed or stole). The General Conference of SDA in Washington DC now has his report which, I am assuming, discredits her. They are now sitting on it. Um...If anyone can get a copy of this report for a lot of money, why hasn't the GC of SDA's just come clean and say "We blew it! She was a fraud"?
By the way, I've never heard of this report. How old is it?
Paul Lorenz |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2000 - 1:05 pm: | |
Mid 70s. I've heard you can still get it from the GC, and I've also heard you can't. I'm too caught up in other things to worry about it myself now. But if you're interested enough, I'm sure you can get links which will give you a lot more information. |
Susan
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2000 - 8:38 pm: | |
O.K. folks. There's an article on Sydney Cleveland's website that I found most interesting. Just stumbled onto it tonight. The more I find out about Ellen, the more freaked out I become. It addresses the dream she had, (after asking God to SHOW her light) where she talks to her DEAD husband. Riding along with him and having a conversation. This should alarm any SDA who is lurking. Isn't this forbidden in scripture? How could you stay in a church that claims this person to be of God. I just don't get it!!!
Check it out at, http:/mem.tcon.net/users/5018/2365/ewdead.htm
Would love to hear what you'all think!
In Christ,
Susan |
Chyna
| | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 10:09 am: | |
remember to insert another forward slash http:// to get to the site :).
Chyna |
Sherry2
| | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 11:32 am: | |
Wow, Susan! I did go check out the official EGWhite site too, and yes, it's there just as Sydney quoted...nothing left out. Man alive! |
Susan
| | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 4:03 pm: | |
Thanks Chyna! Sorry for leaving that out.
Sherry2, I'm glad someone else out there is surprised by this. I wanted to run this by someone who was not raised SDA. Also, I wanted someone raised as a mainstream Christian. My husband was the perfect one! He knows a little about SDA's from what he's observed in my family and from what I've told him. While my husband is a wonderful and intelligent guy, he just doesn't get into theology and apologetics like I do. But when I ask him a question about essential doctrine or the Christian faith, he always has a plain and perfect answer. Anyway, when I told him about my new discovery concerning EGW he was speechless (for about 1 min.). Then he said "you know Susan, that sounds just like something from Satan." The more he thought about it the more disturbed he got. "Can't they see how EGW was just not of God? In fact she showed all the signs of someone involved in Spiritism!" I agree with him.
Well, I hope some more of you check this one out and let me know what you think.
In Christ,
Susan |
Patti
| | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 4:12 pm: | |
What disturbs me, Susan, is, even if she was not saying that she was truly conversing with the dead, the fact that she would use such imagery when she taught her "little flock" to flee anything that even RESEMBLED spiritualism.
I have a feeling that she rarely remembered WHAT she wrote previously, and at this time, having lost her most ardent proponent, supporter and faithful companion, she actually wished that there were a life beyond the grave. She was probably missing his support sorely. And she tried to use his influence, even from the grave, for more support.
Just a thought. |
Allenette
| | Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2000 - 8:29 pm: | |
Well, as a SDA PK, I'll give you the standard party-line rebuttal of that particularly uncomfortable "chink in the armor" as I useed to hear it explained away: there were dreams, and there were DREAMS ;-)
Anything that doesnt fit the mythology, er, 'history', has an explanation. Folks, while WE may think of SDA as something we locally subscribed to....in reality, it is a multi-multi-million $ business. If you checked out the link for Cleveland's website, you could also read about, just for an example, ADRA. The U. S. govt. donated $85 million-- MILLION!!!!--to the "cause" in Rwanda...in case you dont know, the "SDA"'s over there were slaughtering each other and one pastor is up on charges of GENOCIDE. Read the book! This aint no "Little Church in the Wildwood", ok?
If the most worked up you all can get, is that EGW was delusional, and the theology was wrong, try figuring out the "strange bedfellows" situation that SDA is in with our govt. and probably the U.N. as well.
Its not a situation that is exclusive to SDA; it is pandemic to most religious denominations who have interests in keeping their 503-whatever tax status.
Its dead easy to keep the ole blinders on about REALITY and yak and yak about theology, but the REAL DEAL has more to do with balance of power on this planet, NOT who gets to heaven or not, and how....hate to say it....religionists are being kept busy argueing theology while time marches on, and our liberties are being removed one by one, slowly but surely.
Oh well, its more FUN argueing where we go after we die, aint it? gggggg |
Ray
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2000 - 1:51 am: | |
Who was EGW really. Was she a little girl that was poisoned by a neurotoxin (mercuric nitrate) at a very early age because her father was a hatter and made hats in their home for a living. Have you ever heard the phrase "as mad as a hatter?" Hatters used this poison in the manufacturing process of making hats. A lot of mercury compounds are volitile so it was probably all over their home. They slept in the condensed vapors, ate it in their food, and breathed it in the air. As Ellen was sick, lost a lot of weight because of the rock to the nose, she would be more succeptible to the poisin. To read about this go the the White Estate web page at http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/ and look up "mercuric nitrate" This information is also found in EGW, The Early Years, Vol. 1, 1827-1862, page 24, paragraph 3 While at the White Estate computer also look up "inflammation on the brain"
Here in this statement EGW admits to having a diseased brain. Would this cause her to believe she was a Prophet of God due to brain damage that she herself admits? You be the judge. Have a nice day.
Ray |
Darrell
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2000 - 12:48 pm: | |
I at first resisted commenting on Sydney Cleveland's article about "consulting" with her dead husband, but I think some points need to be made. The fact that she had a dream after the death of her husband in which she talks to him is certainly nothing unusual. Probably anyone who has experienced the death of a loved one has had similiar experiences as part of the grieving process. I have experienced this after the death of my grandfather, and again after the death of a friend a couple of years ago. This certainly does not make me guilty of necromancy.
The thing that is unusual about Ellen White's experience is that she attributed it to being a message from God, rather than the result of grieving for her lost husband. But even this seems consistent with her belief that she was "the Lord's messenger". Therefore, Ellen White stands or falls on the weight of other evidence, of which there is no shortage. There is no need to appeal to questionable arguments.
Ray, interesting theory. |
Terry
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2000 - 9:51 pm: | |
Has anyone noticed how the White Estate tries to dispute all of the bad press that EGWHITE has been given? They go into detail over just about every subject that has made the her out to be what she truly was..."the shut door," "we are to never say that we are saved," and on and on..."God held His hand over the mistake." They try and manipulate the reader into beliveing what is not...even quoting Scripture, trying to show parallels in God's methods, etc... What a joke!
Terry |
Sherry2
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2000 - 10:47 am: | |
What I found estounding was that they did address the quote from Spiritual Gifts where she wrote that the slave who had no knowledge of God will remain in the grave and will not be resurrected at the end, and they go on to explain that the text that "every knee shall bow" is to do with those who in fact did make a decision for or against Christ, but those who haven't heard will simply remain in the grave... I couldn't believe they actually said that. Yes, they have turned the Word of God into nothing more than a book to help prove EGW is right, rather than upholding God's Word as God's Word...I don't know...the more I see how they justify and explain away Scripture to make her work, the more I think the "lesser light" really is the Bible to them, and the "greater light" is EGW. What a pity. |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2000 - 9:02 pm: | |
I agree, Sherry.
I had to laugh this morning; Richard was coming up with some one-liners for a creative little project he's working on, and this one was one of my favorites: "The White Estate: Still in probate."
Colleen |
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