| Author | Message | ||
| Ted |
Thanks for your post Pat, I am watching the postings with interest and will jump in when I feel the Holy Spirits promptings. Your book was truely a blessing to Sylvia and Me, and I know that my Mom will be as blessed as we were when she finally gets the time to read it. To all of you ex-SDA's out there, if you haven't read Pat's book yet, I highly recommend it. God Bless you both Pat and Dan. In his Love, Ted Lewis tedl_98@yahoo.com | ||
| Susan (Susan) |
Wow, great discussion! David gave a wonderful analogy (my husband is a flight instructor too). It really helps to explain some of what an ex-cultist experiences, when they confront the fact, that they've been living a lie. May I recommend a book? I've read just about every book on SDA's, cults, spiritual abuse, etc. and I haven't found another book like this one. "Out of the Cults and into the Church" by Janis Hutchinson. I came across it last week on Amazon.com and was curious. It arrived the other day and I haven't been able to put it down. The author is an ex-Mormon and she not only gives personal experiences but she also explains the dynamics of cults. She discusses topics like: things lost, (like being a part of the "only true church",elite status, friends and community ties,and having a divine leader etc.) emotional and physical problems, and feeling like you're "losing it" . This book has really shed so much light on why people join cults and the turmoil experienced when leaving. It's also full of advice on witnessing to "new" ex-cultists. On a personal note, I know what you mean by flashbacks, anger etc. Even though I've been free for over 10 years I sometimes remember stuff. I can't go to a movie without laughing about what I was taught as a kid. I was told "if the theater catches on fire you're going to hell". Has anyone ever heard this before? I've always wondered. And if anyone out there has, what is this based on? I'd love to know! I guess I haven't had major anxiety over leaving. I've questioned adventism ever since I can remember. I always knew it was wrong. I can't really explain it, except that the Father wanted me to follow Him. And the Holy spirit was nudging me to find the truth. I used to have a really sick feeling in my stomach whenever I'd go into a church or discuss spiritual things(after I left adventism but prior to being born-again). I guess that was because I didn't know what to believe in. But now I only focus on the Word. I try to saturate myself in it. Especially when I start to have doubts. I am dealing a great deal with anger now. What I've read says it can take up to 8 years to de-program after a cult experience. Longer if there has been no counseling/intervention.Which is my situation. I do read what God has to say about anger, but I have alot of baggage. I just can't understand how my mom could mess up our lives so much with this abusive religion. It really destroys so many lives. I sometimes feel like the spiritual abuse was the most destructive thing in my life (even more than my parents divorce). Most people have no clue what I'm talking about. But I think that perhaps our experiences give us more of a desire for the truth. We can experience and understand grace in a way most other christians never can. And who knows how God plans to use each of us to further His kingdom. That's the exciting part! Yes, we need to grieve our losses because they are valid and real. Yes, we can be angry about being deceived and hurt. But we can rejoice that we are free! Christ has given us His seal(Eph.1:11-14), the only one needed, and we are eternally saved. "He alone is worthy to receive ALL the glory, honor and praise! "Your friend in Christ, Susan | ||
| Lydell |
Susan, so glad you shared your experience with the struggle. But, I think, you unintentionally left out the final step in healing: forgiveness. What I am about to say is not going to apply to everyone yet. Some of you are going to have some stuff you have to work through, some griefing you have to get through before you can reach the point of being able to take this step. But some of you will know that you are now at this point in your lives. Until we are willing to say to God, "by YOUR power, I am choosing to lay down all my anger at those who hurt me," we will remain prisoners of our past. If we don't forgive we continue to leave a tool open for satan to use to torment us with the memories. Until we forgive, there is no way we can ever hope to truly love the one who caused the hurt. This kind of forgiveness is something that is never going to come from the help of any man. Some of you are going to need counseling to get through some stuff. But at the end of it all, your completed healing is only to come through God and the step of forgiveness. That kind of forgiveness is something that can only come from Him. We have to take the step of being willing to be forgiving....and then He can make the feeling of forgiveness towards those people grow in us. Until then the anger and hurt will only eat away at us. It doesn't change the situation that was. It doesn't affect the people who caused the hurt one iota. All it does is cause US to continue to hurt and look backward. It will continue to get in the way of the Lord being able to use us as effective tools to minister to others. I know when we are faced with someone saying, "forgive," the tendency is to automatically say, "but I can't I hurt too much." The question you must answer eventually is this: "just how much longer do you want that thing to have control of your life to continue to cause the hurt? A day, a month, ten years?" Forgiveness begins as a choice we make, and not a feeling. I'll say it again, forgiveness is a choice. But realizing forgiveness doesn't stop at forgiving the one who caused the hurt. The next step is asking God's forgiveness for our feelings towards those people. We have to ask His forgiveness for allowing the hurt to be the thing that consumed our thoughts. As hard a thing as it is to face, anything that we allow to control us rather than God we have allowed to become an idol in our lives. So we must ask His forgiveness. But then there is one more step on the road to forgiveness. And it is something that most of us tend to overlook. After we have forgiven others, and asked God for his forgiveness, then we have to ask God to help us forgive ourselves for allowing the hurt to cripple us. Somehow it is a much harder step to take. We have to realize that the one who caused the initial hurt was only responsible for that hurt. We are the ones responsible for continuing to carry it and allow it to do its work. Until we can forgive us, we can't move on and will never truly find peace. Again, please know that I'm not saying this to lay any kind of guilt trip on anyone!! I just suspect that there are one or two who will stumble across this site who ARE ready for this next and final step in their healing process and need to hear it. For the rest of you, it's just a glimpse of where the Lord will take you someday if you continue to allow Him to work in your heart. One more thing: you are likely never going to get through these steps without the help of your brothers and sisters in Christ around you to support you. It is vital that you start looking for that place of safety and healing in a true body of Christ. As Pat has said, you don't have to commit to a body right away. And yeah, you might come across some strange folks out there too! But you DO need to get out there and discover that there ARE also people of God who are loving, caring, compassionate people to counteract the experiences you have been through. Don't buy into satan's lie that there is no true church! The true body of Christ is a very larger one and comes in all manner of dress and custom. Pat has found her place in a very traditional setting. Ours we have found to be in the very non-traditional setting of electric guitars, drums, and "church dress" meaning blue jeans is the real me that we discovered in the Vineyard churches. There's a place out there that is a fit for you! And a church that God has already prepared to minister to your hurt. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lydell, what a powerful post! I want to underscore what you said about how important it is to let God help you find a place to worship. I'm convinced we can't fully heal or be complete without a body of believers who care and pray for us. Last Sunday our pastor Gary Ingrig preached on the armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-17) He described the Roman armor to which Paul referred when he wrote his letter. He said that the Romans were famous for their formation called the Roman Wedge. They approached the enemy in a wedge-shape: each soldier carried his shield in his left hand, and two-thirds of it covered his own left side, and one-third of it covered his neighbor's right side. That left their right hands free to thrust with their swords. As they advanced in a connected unit, each one's shield covering part of himself and part of his neighbor, they were formidable. The shield of faith, Gary said, is like that. Our faith partly protects us and partly protects our brothers. Likewise, part of our protection comes from our brothers' faith. Going it alone, we are much more vulnerable to attack and defeat. With other believers, we have strength and support that is greater than anything we would have alone. Lydell's right; there is a church out there that God has already prepared to minister to you | ||
| Rayna |
I do not believe in there being just one true church anymore, but I do believe in the one true gospel of Jesus. I do have a question that maybe someone can help me with. I have met people on line and hear others talk about how God has changed their lives. They believe this is the important point of life today for a Christian. To me this is their gospel, talking about how God has come into their life and changed it. They seem to me to be preaching about themselves and not about the true gospel. I do believe when we come to know the true gospel our lives will be changed but this is not our focus. This is not the gospel. It leaves me confused as to how to discuss the true gospel with them, as they seem not to understand. How do we approach these people. | ||
| Joni |
Look at the woman from Samaria. John 4:1-42. Notice first that the woman meets Jesus. Then she wants the water of life. She is converted. She believes in Jesus, that He can give her eternal life and forgive her sins and that He is the Messiah. Second: she leaves and goes to the city and tells others "come see a man who told me all the things that I have done..." vs.29 Notice that she tells the others about what Jesus told her, not about salvation. At first she relates Jesus to her own experience, what He has done for her. Third: the others of the city come to see this Messiah. He taught them 2 days. They also believed in Him because of the woman who testified "He told me all the things that I have done". Vs.39. Fourth: the others say "it is no longer because of what you say that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world." vs.42. After we share our story, (his-story)and others want to know more, we share the gospel. We can not give what we don't have. If we know forgiveness of sins and if we know God we can tell about our experience. After this we can share the gospel message and disciple them to learn more about Jesus. How about Acts.4:17. Peter was told not to "speak no more to any man in this name", "the name of Jesus" vs.18. "Peter and John said we cannot stop speaking what we have seen and heard." vs. 20 We cannot help but speak what we have seen and heard. If you have been with Jesus and get to know Him and you know the forgiveness of sins you automaticlly speak about what he has done for you. You share the Gospel. The good news that Jesus came to save sinners of who I am chief. Forgiveness from sins is a miracle. Eternal life is a miracle. There is much to learn and much to teach. The good news about Jesus was spread because the people experienced Him. We too, can experience Him today. And after we experience Him we share Him. Just some thoughts. | ||
| Rayna |
Toni, I had to think about your reply for a while. My life is nothing to brag about. My Adventist experience and marriage were nighmares, that i definitely would not want to discuss these issues. I do feel myself to be a great sinner, but know that i have been forgiven. I am accepted in Jesus even though I am a sinner. These people have glowing reports to tell about what God is doing in their life here on earth. Somehow i do not believe they are telling it all. Anyway, they do not see themselves as sinners, but as people with a new life becoming so good. Hard to reach these people. The gospel seems so far off to them. They want something happening today, that they can see and hear and touch. I have been told that they do not believe i am saved because if i was i would be a member of a church and attending. What do you all think? Maybe she is right?? I do not think so. |
