| Author | Message | ||
| Answer |
Question ---Your desire to squash me is showing. ---It was erased by the author because of the grace of God. ----Thanks for helping, but tell us about salvation in just a few words so all will take the time to read it and understand. ----You agree that I rediculed my friend Rolaant? Hardly! ---Be careful of joining a spirit of something you and others on this forum may not understand -yet. Maybe I should go back and copy all your quotes. Answer | ||
| ishouldeknowbetter |
Are we working on number five yet? | ||
| Question |
What spirit takes our words and twists them and then uses those words against us? The fallen spirit. I would urge us all to forgive one another and accept each other as brothers and sisters. To goat one another into poor dialogue is not acceptable. If we cannot help each other, what are we doing? My quick post to Rolaant was not sent as a slap in the face. I only wanted him to continue on with the thought. I thanked him for his work and wanted more from him. We need people like Rolaant to share and lead this group from the evil one that IS present here on this board. | ||
| Patti |
Perhaps "ridicule" was too strong a word. I apologize if that word offended you. The word I should have used is "belittle." The substance remains the same, though. This forum is for supporting each other, not for trying to get "one up" on others. The Lord bless you and keep you, Gary. The Lord lift His countenance upon you And give you peace. The Lord make His face to shine upon you. And give you peace. Grace and peace always, Patti | ||
| Max |
Should we forgive the unrepentant? | ||
| Patti |
Always, Max. Sometimes we have to do it by faith. We pronounce forgiveness when we do not truly feel like it. We cannot trust our feelings. "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." We must never forget that while we were yet sinners (rebellious, unrepentent, unconcerned) Christ died for us. | ||
| Maryann |
Doesn't it say somewhere that we are to forgive those that sin against us? If they are sinning against us, they most likely are un-repentant? | ||
| Max |
What about the woman whose drunken husband asks her to forgive him just before he beats her senseless yet again? He does this every night. She has to get up early every morning, take four small children (by a previous marriage) to day care, work all day in a sweat shop and come home to the same situation. She is losing her life due to bruises, stress, lack of sleep, and overwork. And poor nourishment -- because most of the money she earns, her unemployed husband spends on alcohol. But, although she knows she is losing her life due to this situation, she's afraid to die. Because she knows that after she's dead, her children will be even more defenseless against their step-father. For, instead of caring for them, he only rapes them all, every chance he gets -- both the two little boys and the two little girls -- and then blames THEM for "tempting" him. And here he comes again tonight, drunk, wanting sex, saying, "Let's all forgive each other" -- "before I rape the kids and beat you senseless." Now, should she continue to forgive him? I'm serious. Max | ||
| Max |
What does everyone think about the following text (Matthew 7:7-8 NIV)? Jesus is preaching on Mt. Blessings: ^^ "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." ^^ | ||
| Max |
What does everyone think about the following text (1 Corinthians 5:1-2 NIV)? Paul is writing to the believers in Corinth, a wealthy Greek city on the Mediterranean: ^^ It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that doesnot occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? ^^ Was Paul wrong? Shouldn't the man be forgiven instead of put out of fellowship? And what about this one 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 NIV)? ^^ But not I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. ^^ Again, is Paul wrong? Shouldn't the sexually immoral, greedy, idolatrous, slandering, drunken swindler just be forgiven and continue to eat with him? Again, I feel this is a serious question. Max | ||
| Jeff H. |
I think you can both forgive and be disciplinary. I don't feel they are mutially exclusive. I think the women can forgive her husband but at the same time take action to not put herself and her kids in that situation. See has to forgive for her own well being and because that is the spirit God puts in us. I would like to get back to what Roolant was discussing. I thought there was one text he did not discuss that is difficult to understand in the context of salvation. That is the broad and narrower door. In the context of all that Paul and Jesus say regarding salvation, why is the road to salvation the narrow door and the one that leads to hell the broad door. It seems simple enough repent accept Jesus forgiveness and recieve his spirit as is promised. Why is that a narrow door? I guess it is hard for me to see that it is narrow because it seems the obvious way to go. Why is it not obvious to the ones going through the broad door? | ||
| sherry |
The texts both are dealing with "a brother" - one of the faith - someone who claims Jesus as Lord and Savior. He is not suggesting unforgiveness...he is telling them that there are consequences to their action. The husband who's beating his wife, and raping the children obviously is not feeling any consequences for his actions. Why the wife doesn't get help when she can from outside sources is not ok. Why isn't she getting help? If you've never read "Bold Love" by Dr. Dan Allender, it delves heavily into forgiveness, what it means, and how to deal with different levels of sinful people that the Bible talks of. | ||
| Jeff H |
Question You are right I don't agree that you ridiculed Rolaant and therefore shouldn't have said I agree with Patti. However, I did feel bad for Rolaant because I felt from what you posted that Rolaant's efforts were not appreciated. | ||
| Patti |
Jeff, Very good question. I believe the answer is that the Gospel must be revealed to us. Many people think they have the Gospel, when they, like the Galatians, are teaching a false gospel; a gospel focused upon the believer's changed life or good works instead of upon faith in the work of Jesus Christ in our behalf. This is the primary belief in Christendom today, I am convinced. Thus, you have such cliches as "fully surrender," "submit your will totally to God," (both of which have little or no scriptural support. I could agree with these if they meant to humbly accept our sinful condition and trust in the merits of our Lord; but that is not how they are used. They are focusing the believer and others on the believer, not on the dead and risen Savior.), "born-again Christian" (A phrase that SHOULD refer to one who believes in Jesus Christ, but has been perverted to focus only on the "regeneration" of the believer." This is what I think it means by "wide gate, narrow gate." I feel in the minority in just about every Christian communion when I say that nothing inside of us will ever be worthy of anything but death. Or when I say that only the righteousness of Christ, which is totally alien to us, is the righteousness by which we are saved. Or when I say that faith is belief in the substitutionary work of Christ for us alone; inevitably, people who have not "seen" the Gospel demand that there is something we must "do" (or something that the Holy Spirit does in us literally; it makes no difference whether they claim their works are their own or with the help of the Holy Spirit. Our works remain our works, and all of the best of them are filthy rags to God) to make ourselves "worthy" of His grace. This is not just an SDA thing, BTW, but something common to modern Christianity. And I believe that this is exactly the "wide gate" to which Christ refers: "There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof is the way of death." It seems "right" that we must do something to earn our salvation. It seems "right" that the grace of Christ should actually transform our characters right here and now into something that is acceptable to God. But it is the same false gospel that diverted the Galatians from the paths of truth, and for which Paul severely reprimanded them. And we can only "see" this by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, because the Gospel is foolishness to anyone who has not been enlightened. It is like an optical illusion, and we will never see it until we have a new perspective, and that only comes of the inspiration of the Spirit of God who "will lead us into all truth." WDYT? Have I missed the boat entirely? Patti | ||
| Jeff H |
I forgot to add that I think we all need to be a little less sensitive. The written word has less information then the spoken and sometimes we can read into something someone writes that isn't there. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, I started this "killer" post and suddenly had a revalation! Had to stop and take care of some long needed business. Tell all about it when I finish. I will say right now though, staying is NOT necessary, BUT, total forgiveness is. Maryann | ||
| Jeff H |
I find it hard to believe that all those that don't understand the gospel but are still striving to seek and please God will be lost. Even though the Bible does seem to imply that some such as the pharasees will be lost. Although it can be argued that they were not striving to find or please God. Just because they don't understand the gospel doesn't mean they don't have christ's spirit in them. All that are seeking God will find him and be saved. They just may not have the full blessing through misunderstanding. I think the broad door are those that just don't want to seek God for some reason that I can't understand. | ||
| Patti |
Just because they don't understand the gospel doesn't mean they don't have christ's spirit in them. But, Jeff, how does one "get" the Spirit of Christ in him? By believing in Jesus Christ, right? The old self doesn't die easily, and it is our own egos that tell us that we are in control of our eternal destiny. We want to handle things; we want to "do." But there is one thing we cannot do; we cannot save ourselves. Now if you are going to say that not even trust in Christ is necessary for salvation, then you are supporting universalism. (I will have to admit there is some biblical evidence to support this.) In which case, what we do still will not help to save us, because Christ saved the entire world. If you do not espouse universalism, then you must either support: 1. legalism--we save ourselves, at least in part, by the something we do, something inside of us; 2. grace--we are saved by believing in the work of Christ in our behalf alone. I see no other alternatives. | ||
| Jeff H |
Unfortunately I don't have my bible with me to find texts but i can remember a few. Like "seek and you shall find", "all that call upon the name of the lord will be saved", John 3:16 etc. They don't say believe and understand that you have to understand that it is not you're works but mine or you won't be saved. I think you can beleive in christ and just because you have some mixed up view (due to some mixed up subculture you were in) that there is still something you have to do, doesn't mean Christ won't save you. So I would say I support grace and that it is God's job to help us understand it so we get the full blessing. You do make a good point that it is trust in Christ which is needed but can we have perfect trust without him. It is not our job to have perfect trust but to throw ourselves to him and ask him to save us and give us perfect trust. | ||
| Max |
Hi Jeff H., You wrote, "I think the women can forgive her husband but at the same time take action to not put herself and her kids in that situation." Are you talking about, for instance, a battered womens' center? And who pays the rent on her apartment while she's in the center and her husband is still in her apartment? And how long does she stay in the center? And who buys groceries so her husband can eat while she stays in the center? Just asking, Max |
