| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Colleen, loved your point about the temple containing the Sabbath and Christ containing the temple. Steve, thanks for growing in grace -- grace being the obverse side of the law: Law may point out sin, but grace eradicates it. | ||
| sally ford |
Hi Ann, In your message commenting about Col.2:16 you said I shared this with someone the other day, his response was that if I could show him in the Bible where God said that His fourth commandment no longer exists and the other nine do, only then he'll 'believe me'! 2Cor.3:6 and onward is talking about the new covenant in Christ. The old is done away, and that would include the fourth commandment. Notice verse 11. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away; How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.(Notice this verse!) For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainess of speech; And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly lookk to the end of that which is abolished; But their minds were blinded; for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament ; which vail is done away in Christ. ....Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. To me that is quite clear that the commandments were abolished. The moral truths in the old covenanat are eternal truths and are clearly taught in the new testament.And is summarized in Love. Gal.5:14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word,"You shall love your neighbor as yourself". I know that was long but the context is important. Now I have to share one more thing with you all that was to me an amazing find. In the book Early Writings by E.G.White page 33 she says "I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers.." Now hear Gods word Eph.5:14-15 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier , the dividing WALL of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.Ellen white made the 4th commandment the test to supposedly separate the true from the false. But the Bible says we are saved by grace through faith. Not a divisive day! Sally | ||
| Ann L. |
Thanks Jude, I really hear you with this ìcultified personality!î Again Iíll say, SDAís believe that they are being lead by the Holy Spirit when itís really the EGW spirit! This whole ìSabbath is the seal of God, keeping the Sabbath is evidence of the Holy Spiritî crap! The ìcultified personality is not an integrated personality.î Itís like saying, ìCol 2:16 says that the sabbath is a shadow just like the new moon and feast days, but that canít be true, because bible prophecy shows that in the last days a Sunday Law will be enacted (the Pope will change Godís Laws) and the current events displayed in the media is an evidence of this! And if the Sabbath is no longer binding, then why does the bible say that we will all worship God in heaven on the Sabbath?!î My question is, if that verse (Isaiah??) also says ìfrom one new moon to anotherî then why donít they also keep the new moon? Donít you think that verse ìreallyî means that we will worship God ALL THE TIME (from week to week and from month to month) and not ONLY on the sabbath and EVERY MONTH (new moon) as they would like to believe??!! SDAís really cannot see the true light of the Gospel, because the Gospel is too over-shadowed by their beliefs (such as the Sunday Law)! All that fear about accepting the mark of the beast if you keep the ìfalseî sabbath. Which reminds me of your ìdreamî Jude, you really should publish it as a tract or something you know. Jesus used parables to get across His message. Maybe you can use that dream to illustrate the ìGospelî v. ìEllen G. Whiteî to SDAís. I am coming now to realize that the SDAís have more influence on me than I care to admit. Although I did not grow up in or become a member of the SDA church (praise God!), I still have a lot to ìunlearnî like you FAís. Guess I can call myself an AFA (almost former adventist). How did you SDAís break away from the belief in a Sunday Law? | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Wow! Ann L. I can almost feel your spiritual power coming through like radiation from my computer screen! This really means something to you, doesn't it? How did I "break away from the belief in a Sunday Law?" It was a multi-stage process: 1. Recognition that Ellen G. White was a plaigerist: one who copies the words of others as her own without obtaining permission or giving credit. Her plaigerism undermined her authority in my eyes. For the law is like a fine crystal pitcher, and the one who breaks or cracks or even chips one part -- say the pouring lip, or the base, or the handle, or the side -- is guilty of breaking the whole thing. 2. Then I realized that she based none of her Sunday Law teaching on Scripture. This forced me to look into Scripture for support. But I found nothing there. THERE IS NOT SO MUCH AS ONE WORD OF SUPPORT IN EITHER THE OLD OR THE NEW TESTAMENT IN SUPPORT OF THE SUNDAY LAW TEACHING! 3. History -- from the time she wrote Great Controversy till now -- has utterly failed to bear out her Sunday Law prophecies. And to the contrary, events from that time to this have actually gone in the other direcdtion -- toward more civil and religious freedom for Sabbath-keepers rather than less. This has been true legally (in the courts) and factually -- in the workplace, in the military ("Sabbaths off" is now routine for SDA service people), in the market-place (Sunday blue laws are only a relic and nothing of the threat of which Ellen White warned), and any other venue. 4. Finally I recognized her Sunday Law teaching as heresy fabricated out of whole cloth -- certainly not Scripture! -- to justify her flawed and historically conditioned theory of the Sabbath requirement being the final test. In other words, Sabbath-keeping as a requirement of God cannot be "put to the test" if there is nothing opposing it. Ergo: Sunday laws to the rescue! Sorry, I just don't go there any more. Grace and peace, Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Sally, you have provided the answer to that question about where the Bible says the fourth commandment was done away with! Thank you! I also loved your point about Ellen saying the Sabbath would be the dividing wall between unbelievers and believers, and the Bible saying that in Christ the wall of hostility is broken down. I think this also speaks to Ann's question about how we break away from a belief in Sunday laws. Jude, your explanation for how you broke away from it was good. I have to agree; seeing the fallacy of EGW's prophetic "gift" put everything she said into a new category: non-inspired (at least non-inspired by the Holy Spirit) manipulation. Jesus is the rallying point for all true Christians. It was for Jesus the martyrs died. It was for Jesus the disciples risked life and limb. Why would the final conflict be over anything less? Besides, a Sunday law would be difficult to enforce in a world where such a huge percentage of people are Friday-observing Moslems. A single-minded devotion to Jesus is what upsets people, whether they're athiests (as in communist countries) or Moslems or first-world materialists. Persecution cannot quench Christ-following. People who believe in Jesus are loyal to him before all other authority. No day can evoke such power. A day is no threat to a political system. Only a powerful Person can threaten the power-mongers! | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Coming soon to this Discussion: Resumption of reviews of Dale Ratzlaff's SABBATH IN CRISIS! Tune in! | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Reviews Part 2, Ch.11, ìSabbath in Crisis" by Dale Ratzlaff 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay Part Two of Chapter XI -- ìSabbath in the Epistlesî -- Galatians 4:9-11 If youíre still hanging on to Seventh-day Adventism, better fasten your safety belt, for if you really undertand it, this text of Paulís is going to throw you way way back in your bucket seat: ìBut now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.î Galatians 4:9-11. In Galatians Paul canít stop talking about the old covenant Law of Moses. He says (Gal.3:34-25): (1) The Law is ìour tutor to lead us to Christ.î (2) Faith has come. (3) Surprise: We are no longer under ìthe tutorî! Inescapable conclusion: We are no longer under the Law of Moses! And because this is so, you no longer have to observe: (1) Days (such as the weekly seventh-day Sabbath and the Day of Atonement). (2) Months and seasons (such as the New Moons of Numbers 28:11, and the Passover and Firstfruits). (3) Years (such as the sabbath year of Leviticus 25:4). The Seventh-day Adventists in Galatia were Paulís opponents. They ìwere seeking to persuade the Galatians to observe the law,î writes Ratzlaff. To combat their enslaving influence, Paul ìshows that observance of the Law as a requirement puts one under a curse for ANY failure to keep it perfectly,î no matter how tiny an infraction. ìThe Galatians had been persuaded by the Judaizers [SDAs] to observe the convocations [such as the weekly seventh-day Sabbath] of the old covenant.î Read "Sabbath in Crisis" for yourself. Click here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/sabb.htm. And meanwhile, Do not go gentle into SDA night, but Rage against the dying of the gospel light, Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Reviews Part 3, Ch.11, ìSabbath in Crisis" by Dale Ratzlaff 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay Part Three of Chapter XI -- ìSabbath in the Epistlesî ñ Romans 14:5,6 In keeping with the old saying ñ good things come in threes ñ Paul now hits us with the third AWESOME LEGALISM-BASHING text. This time itís Romans 14:5-6: One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord, and he who eats not [flesh foods offered to idols], does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not [flesh foods offered to idols], for the Lord he does not eat [flesh foods offered to idols], and gives thanks to God. Amazing fact No. 1: ìIn New Testament times more Jews lived in Rome than in Jerusalem,î writes Ratzlaff. Inference: Taht's a lot of Jewish Christians to mix in with the Gentile Christians. Amazing fact No. 2: Christians of New Testament times divided themselves up into five broad groups: GROUP ONE: ìJewish Christians who kept the old covenant laws AND insisted that the Gentile Christians do the same.î GROUP TWO: ìThose who felt the Jewish Christians had to keep the old covenant laws, but the Gentile converts did not.î GROUP THREE: ìGentile Christians who were seeking to keep the old covenant law.î (Examples: Colossian Christians and Galatian Christians). GROUP FOUR: ìGentiles [Christians] who did not keep the old covenant law.î GROUP FIVE: ìThose [such as Paul himself] who were free from old covenant law keeping, yet Ö had no problem ëkeepingí the law when in the company of those who kept it IF it would give [them] an opportunity to proclaim the gospel to these people.î We can safely assume there were several-to-many of each of the five groups in the Christian churches in this huge metropolis of Rome. There were Christians who ate pork chops and ham and clams and squid -- ìall thingsî (Rom. 14:2). And Christians who ate ìvegetables onlyî (Rom. 14:2). There were Christians who thought some things were ìuncleanî and Christians who thought otherwise (Rom. 14:14,20). There were Christians who drank wine and Christians who didnít (Rom. 14:21. There were Christians who thought the first day Sunday was to be observed above the other six, and Christians who thought Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday were all to be observed ìalikeî (Rom. 14:5-6). With all this in mind, Paul writes, ìI know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean of itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean... All things indeed are clean.î (Rom. 14:14,20.) Take home message for you and me: ìSabbath observance is a matter of personal conviction,î writes Ratzlaff. ìChurch unity is more important than arguments over the Sabbath. Paul did not believe Sabbath observance, or nonobservance, was important in itself. There is evidence that Jewish Christians in Rome were the ones who were observing the Sabbath while the Gentile Christians there regarded ëevery day alike.íî While this is good enough for me, I would like to share with you Ratzlaffís personal testimony: ìWhen I was a boy, my mother did not cook or wash the dishes on the Sabbath. However, for Sabbath dinner she did reheat the food she had prepared the day before. When we began to use frozen vegetables she found that it was no more ëworkí to take frozen peas and cook them than it was to reheat the ones which were cooked the day before. I remember the discussion we had in making this transition. However, we never did face the fact that even making a fire on the Sabbath was wrong! If we did, would it have been wrong to build a fire in a wood stove? What if you kept coals overnight so you did not have to light a match, would that [adding more wood] be building a fire? And what about a modern gas cooktop which lights with a turn of the knob? Is that building a fire? There are hundreds of questions that will come up if one tries to keep the biblical rules for Sabbath. ìWhen we took long trips we tried not to travel on the Sabbath. However, we often took short trips in the car on Sabbath afternoon to ëenjoy nature.í I remember on several occasions we compromised and decided to ëenjoy natureí at the same time we ëtraveled.í However, when we did this, we always would gas upon Friday night and drive until the gas tank was about empty. We would then find a place to observe the rest of the Sabbath. As soon as the sun was down, we would gas up and continue our trip. When I was pastoring in the Seventh-day Adventist church I remember a lady who was baptized and joined our church. I studied with her the biblical principles of Sabbath keeping and encouraged her to follow them. Some time later she called me and said that her husband did not like her keeping the Sabbath because she was not making the beds on Sabbath morning. I assured her that making the beds was acceptable Sabbath keeping. I had, in our previous study, instructed her that she should not use the sacred hours of the Sabbath to do her housework, such as washing clothes, etc. In interpreting my instruction, coupled with the biblical rules of Sabbath keeping, she felt that there was more ëworkí in making a bed than there was in washing clothes in an automatic washing machine. I was hard pressed to defend my definition of what was right and what was wrong to do on the Sabbath. ìSamuele Bacchiocchi, Seventh-day Adventist theologian, in his book, THE SABBATH IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, has some twenty-one pages devoted to modern Sabbath observance. IN these pages he asks many questions about Sabbath keeping and then gives his interpretation. For example: (1) ìÖholding of weddings on the Sabbath should be discouraged.î (2) ìAs a general rule, however, it is advisable to avoid conducting funerals on the Sabbath, since they disrupt the spirit of rest, joy, and celebration of the Sabbath.î (3) ìA distinction must be made between essential services rendered on the Sabbath in a Seventh-day Adventist institution and those rendered in a non-SDA institution.î The reason for this, says Dr. Bacchiocchi, is that in a non-SDA institution, such as a fire station, the Sabbath keeper might be asked to do routine maintenance work which would not be accepted Sabbath observance. (4) ìPurchasing goods or services on the Sabbath, such as eating out in restaurants, will turn the mind of the believer away from the sacredness of the Sabbath to the secularism and materialism of the world.î (5) Dr. Bacchiocchi states that ìHistorically, Seventh-day Adventists have endeavored to follow the principle of sunset reckoning [to mark the beginning and end of Sabbath] even in the Arctic regions by broadening the meaning of ësunsetí to include, for example, the end of twilight, the diminishing of light, the moment when the sun is closest to the horizon.î Having said this, however, he then argues for Sabbath to be reckoned in arctic regions using equatorial sunset time, 6 p.m. to 6 p.m.î Thatís what Samuele Bacchiocchi teaches. Dale Ratzlaff teaches this: ìIt is obvious that Sabbath keeping was not required or recommended in the Gentile Churches. Jude the Obscure teaches this: ìItís all right to observe the Sabbath, just as it is all right to be circumcised or to eat only vegetables or to arise every night precisely at midnight ñ taking Danielís example to heart ñ in order to pray out under the stars or clouds. But it is not all right to try to require or coerce other Christians into doing the same as you do. Thatís why the seventh-day Adventist church is miserably mistaken making Sabbath-keeping a test of fellowship. It is anti-biblical and just plain wrong. It should drop the requirement -- and with it the "test" -- but retain the practice for all members who wish to worship on that day in SDA churches around the world. This is already entrenched practice anyway. What do YOU teach? Read "Sabbath in Crisis" for yourself. Click here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/sabb.htm. And meanwhile, Do not go gentle into SDA night, but rage, Rage against the dying of the gospel light, Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Reviews Ch.12, ìSabbath in Crisis" by Dale Ratzlaff 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay Chapter XII -- ìNew Covenant Documents and Signsî The New Testament defines the Sinaitic Covenant just as the Old Testament does: All 613 laws including the Ten Commandments among them. As a revelation of truth the old covenant was incomplete and fragmentary (Heb. 1:1). The new covenant is unimaginably superior, for it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus is the radiance of Godís glory and he is the exact representation of Godís nature (Heb. 1:2). Therefore if the two covenants were to come into conflict, the new covenant would always take precedence over the old. JESUS IS THE NEW COVENANT Jesus is the new covenant, the Elect of God (Isaiah 42:6, 49:8, John 6:27) on whom God has set his seal. Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant enacted on better promises (Heb. 8:6). For example. The old covenant partners were God and the ìsons of Israel,î whereas the new covenant partners are the Father and Jesus. The old covenant partner to God failed over and over, whereas the new covenant partner to God the Father, Jesus Christ, kept the Law perfectly and therefore fulfilled the old covenant, in the process proving it to be inferior (Sermon on the Mount). The old order covenant with its temple, sacrifices, etc., was replaced by the new order which says that Jesus is the: Way Truth Life Good Shepherd Light Door First Last I AM Beloved Son Bread of life Water of life Resurrection Judge As a nation, Israel was born at the exodus from Egypt. Similarly but in an unimaginably superior way, Matthew writes, ìOut of Egypt did I call My Sonî Jesus (Mt. 2:5). In the old covenant God = I AM gave the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai, but in the new covenant Jesus = I AM VASTLY IMPROVED on all ten on the Mount of Blessings. In the old covenant I AM wrote an inferior Ten Commandments with his finger on two tablets of stone on the Mount of Sinai. In the new covenant IAM spoke vastly improved them on the Mount of Blessings. ìNo longer are the people to look to Sinai for guidance,î writes Ratzlaff, ìbut to him.î EXPERIENCE ON THE MT. OF TRANSFIGURATION PROVES JESUS SUPERIOR TO THE LAW (MOSES) AND THE PROPHETS (ELIJAH)! Jesus appeared transfigured (clothed in white radiance) before Peter, James and John. Soon Moses (representing the Law) and Elijah (representing the prophets) appear with him. Peter volunteered to make three ìsacred tentsî ñ tabernacles ñ one for Jesus, one for Moses and one for Elijah. But this was not to be, for a cloud formed, ìovershadowing them.î Then the voice of God came out of the cloud saying, ìThis (one) is my beloved Son! Listen to him!î Then ñ poof! ñ the obscuring cloud vanishes, leaving WHO standing alone? Elijah representing the prophets? No. Moses representing the Law? No. Thereís only one possibility left: Jesus! And, lo, it was so, for Jesus appeared to them ALONE ñ NAKED IN A SENSE, FOR HE APPEARED WITHOUT THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS! Whooh! Wow! Jesus only! No more Law! No more prophets! Jesus only! Now Peter, James and John were finally ready ñ along with you and me ñ to listen to God: ìThis is my beloved Son! Hear Him!î And if that doesnít leave you breathless, youíve still got a veil hanging in front of your nose! Therefore Jesus is: # The elect of God # Godís FINAL revelation to us # The exact representation of Godís nature (you can now safely forget about ìthe blueprintî and the so-called ìtranscript of Godís character) # The way # The truth # The life # The light of the world # The only one who always did our Fatherís will # The basis for new covenant law # The Word of God (sorry, but the Scriptures only TESTIFY to the true and only Word, Jesus Christ) When Jesus said, ìIf you love me, keep my commandments,î he wasnít talking about MOSESí commandments. He was talking about HIS commandments: those spoken on the Mount of Blessings and throughout his career on earth. The new covenant laws, just like the old covenant laws, have aspects that are moral-and-eternal and aspects that are ìspecifically set forth for the culture in which the writers lived,î writes Ratzlaff. Under new covenant law, for example, a woman must cover her head (1 Cor. 11:6). If she doesnít she was to have her head shaved. Why? Writes Ratzlaff: ìTo understand these instructions we must see them in their cultural setting. The city of Corinth was well known for its abundance of temple prostitutes. They were the ones who had uncovered or shaved heads. Therefore, while the specifics of Paulís instructions apply only to his culture, we can apply the underlying principle and request that women not come to church looking like prostitutes ñ however prostitutes look in our culture.î Other ways the new covenant can be compared with the old. COVENANT PARTNERS: Old: God and Israel. New: Our Father and Jesus. WORDS OF THE COVENANT: Old: Ten Commandments. New: Love as Christ loved. BOOK OF THE COVENANT: Old: Exodus to Deuteronomy. New: Gospels and Epistles. ENTRANCE SIGN OF THE COVENANT: Old: Circumcision. New: Baptism. REMEMBRANCE SIGN OF THE COVENANT: Old: Sabbath. New: Lordís Supper. Writes Ratzlaff, ìThe role the law filled in the old covenant is filled by the Holy Spirit in the new.î Hereís how this works: 1. The Old Covenant (OC) was written with ink; the New Covenant (NC) was written with the Spirit. 2. The OC was written on tablets of stone; the NC was written on tablets of the heart. 3. The OC was ìof the letter;î the NC was ìof the Spirit.î 4. The OC ìletter kills;î the NC ìSpirit gives life.î 5. The OC was a ministry of death; the NC is the ministry of the Spirit. 6. The OC was a ministry of condemnation; the NC is the ministry of righteousness. 7. The OC came with glory; the NC ìabounds in glory.î 8. The OC now has no glory; the NC abounding glory remains. Read "Sabbath in Crisis" for yourself. Click here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/sabb.htm. And meanwhile, Do not go gentle into SDA night, but rage, Rage against the dying of the gospel light, Jude 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay 7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay7thDay | ||
| Steve |
Hi All, I just sat in a Sabbath School class today. The class was taught by Dr. Ken Vine (many of you probably know who he is.) The subject was the sanctuary (AGAIN!). One of the points that he made was in regards to the Sabbath. He pointed to Colossians 2:16,17. He said that in defense of the 7th day Sabbath, we SDAs don't go far enough in pointing out what the text says. He said that we stop with verse 16 and don't go onto verse 17 which specifically shows that Paul was referring to those "shadowy" sabbaths, not the 7th day sabbath. He went over the feasts of Israel (5 feasts, which happened on 7 different "shadowy" sabbaths) and then attempted to show from the Colossians passage that Paul was only referring to those "ceremonial" sabbaths. Well, I was not happy. Of course, there were several "amen"s from the class. I wasn't one of those. Nowhere does it refer to the 7th day sabbath as "the reality". Scripture always refers to sabbaths (ceremonial, weekly, WHATEVER) as shadows, but the reality is Christ. As Jude the Obscure says often in his posts, Don't go lightly into SDA night, rage against the dying of the gospel light. Well, I'm raging. Thank God for this website. It's probably the only outlet (save ONE person at church, who teaches in that Sabbath school class, who I just found out is not SDA!). The title of this part of the discussion board is What your church doesn't want you to know about the sabbath. I've noticed that it's probably one of the longest sections of the board. I'm beginning to realize why. It's not only what the church DOESN'T want you to know about the sabbath, it's also what false ideas about the sabbath the church wants you to know. There is a great need for Kidneys and Livers in the Body of Christ to remove these toxins and help the Body survive. In Him, Steve | ||
| Lori |
Kidney and Livers.....what a great analogy!!!! | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Hi Lori, Have you been away? I've been missing your worderful postings. Welcome back! Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Hi Lori, Have you been away? I've been missing your worderful postings. Welcome back! Jude | ||
| Delleen Starner (Del_star) |
I'm a newcomer to this site...being directed by a friend, so I have been reading 'just to see what you have to say'. I just have to mention that the 'proof text' in Isaiah 66:22,23 regarding the Sabbath's being kept in eternity is never ever followed up by verse 24 that tells us about all those carcases of men we are going to look upon. I read this one morning in Sabbath School and thought to myself (and shared with the class) that if we are going to 'look upon carcases' this cannot be referring to heaven or the new earth or else there is death in heaven. Your thoughts? Jesus Is Enough | ||
| Patti |
Hi, Del! Great to see you. (I met you on A-I.) You know, you are right. SDAs often take a single text (or a snippet of a text) out of context and use it to "prove" one of their unique doctrine. In fact, they will rarely ever deal with an entire chapter or passage at a time. Just a snippet here and a snippet there. Then the snippets are pasted together like a patchwork quilt. SDAism is truly a "patchwork" theology. I am glad you are here! Patti | ||
| Cindy |
Delleen, Welcome!! I'm glad you are here. I have been blessed by many on this site and I pray you will be,too. I pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us each day. May we can always see JESUS as the focal point. It has been exciting to study the Bible now and see how the Old Testament types and symbols converge on Jesus' perfect life and death for each one of us. That 'proof text' in Isaiah is one I've had trouble with, too. I hadn't thought about the part you mentioned, but yes, that is problematic. I'd like to see what others think on this. I've always thought that if this "proves' SABBATH keeping in the New Earth (and so, it is said, we MUST observe SABBATH now), then it also proves NEW MOON keeping in the New Earth (and so we MUST observe the NEW MOON festivals now also!!). Plus, in the verses preceding this 'proof text' mention is made of selecting some to be priests and Levites. Will we still have the Levitical priesthood system in heaven? Will it be restored?I don't think so... The ministry of JESUS has far superseded the limited ministry of the Old covenantal priesthood and sacrificial system!! The book of Hebrews is beautiful in addressing this! It makes sense to me now that the Old Covenant prophets used Old Covenant terminology to describe the age to come, when all TYPES and SHADOWS would be marvelously FULFILLED IN CHRIST!! I love what you posted, "Jesus Is Enough." Yes! He alone is sufficient for our needs; all things are ours, not because of our worthiness, but because we belong to Christ. Psalms 62:5-8 says it beautifully: "Find REST, O my soul, IN GOD ALONE; MY HOPE comes from HIM. HE ALONE is MY ROCK and MY SALVATION; HE is MY FORTRESS, I will not be shaken. MY SALVATION and MY HONOR depend on GOD; HE is MY MIGHTY ROCK, MY REFUGE. TRUST in HIM at all times, O people; pour out your hearts to Him, for GOD IS OUR REFUGE." Resting in His presence, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Welcome Del, In his book SABBATH IN CRISIS (pp.284-6) Dale Ratzlaff deals with this Isaiah passage, saying basically what you said. SDAs take it out of its context. Good work. Max | ||
| Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker) |
Welcome, Delleen! Colleen | ||
| djconklin |
For a more accurate and in-depth understanding of Col. 2:16-17 see the one at my web page: biblestudy.iwarp.com Your comments are welcome. | ||
| sherry |
Found this interesting today - Jesus is Yahshua in the Hebrew....it is 7 letters - 7 for Sabbath, 7 for Yahshua...Wow! Just a thought. |
