| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Sherry2, Just a thought. If you can pray to God directly without a pastor or a priest, I'm sure you can have a very special communion/Lord's Supper in your home too. Communion, I would think is between you and God, not between you and an institution and God? Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
Hey Guys, The new password system works! :-)) And on my first try! Just register and you'll get a password issued to you. Maryann | ||
| Sherry2 |
Got this message on my Sabbatarian e-mail today. Now I am thoroughly convinced of the New Covenant and there is not a necessity in keeping Sabbath, but I simply haven't signed off this e-mail thing. I am thankful for that. Check out this message. Those of you in California, can you call this radio station to confirm? If true, here's some people that need to understand New Covenant as well. Here's the message: Shalom! Fellow Spirit filled Believers in YAHSHUA!! Also out here on the main CALVARY CHAPEL radio stations Chuck Misler, and both the head speakers on "Hope For Today" say that EVERYONE should keep the biblical Sabbath which is ONLY on Saturday and no other day. This is right on KWVE 107.9 and it's also taught by several on KFSG 96.3. Chuck Misler did a large series on the sabbath going over much scripture and kept saying these scriptures "are STARTLING him." and said "especially beacause of the fact the sabbath remains even after the church age." he also said if he was going to hold services on the weekend he would do them on the Sabbath Eve - Friday Night. The thing is we have 6 ministers on Calvary Chapel's radio stations all saying EVERYONE (ALL CHRISTIANS) need to keep the sabbath. The problem is unless you look at the Hebrew in regards to the sabbath it's called a REHEARSAL (in strongs) or MIQRA - Leviticus 23. It's a rehearsal of the millennium where we celebrate YAHSHUA's rule in doing services, worship, 24 hours of family time, and not doing our own pleasure but only YAHWEH's pleasure - MANDATORY. Keep in mind the 1st Commandment always when doing any of the commandments -the part where it says Love Him with all your ((SOUL)) PSYCHE - Thinking. So in other words if you have a negative attitude (which comes from the wrong unscriptural thoughts) you've already broken the Sabbath. We all must repent and Sabbath helps us in our repentance mode - IN HEBREW AND GREEK Repent means: change the way you look at things. Once we look at things in the light of the truth of scripture our actions will automatically line up eventually. It's commanded to DO THE REHEARSAL every Saturday. | ||
| Breezy |
Hi sherry 2, It's unclear to me( I have a head cold!) whether this is non-adventist people "discovering the sabbath" or an adventist program on the radio promoting the sabbath. Could you clarify this for me? It is very interesting and I am curious. Thanks, Wendy | ||
| Steve |
Hi All, Chuck Missler is a speaker who, at times, touches on those issues that are at the fringes of the Evangelical world. I've got a few of his tape sets and receive his newsletter (free for the first year to anyone who wants it, from Koinonia House.) In the last issue, he espoused the belief that the seventh-day sabbath is still valid for Christians. However, he made it clear that it is not to be kept out of a sense of obligation or of a belief that in doing so makes one more righteous. From what I've heard he has a Seventh-day Adventist on his staff who has influenced his thinking in this matter. In the newsletter last month, he indicated that he is aware of the way SDAs believe in keeping the sabbath. It appeared to me that he was NOT saying that we must keep the sabbath today. However, in light of the radio message mentioned above, it may be true that he is taking a stronger stance on the issue. While working near Albuquerque, New Mexico, a friend of mine "discovered" the seventh-day sabbath and had convinced many in his congregation of the necessity of keeping the sabbath today. He is an elder at his church. In San Diego, while living there a number of years ago, there was a Pentecostal church that discovered the sabbath and they started a Seventh-day Pentecostal church. For me, the sabbath is kind of like the gift of tongues. It's available, and some have been blessed by it, but to make it apply universally, or worse, to make it a test of fellowship or of one's experience with God is going way beyond it's purpose. Chuck Missler has blessed many people with his ministry. I just received this month's newsletter from him today. Although I haven't read it yet, it doesn't appear to have any articles about the sabbath. Perhaps he was just exploring the issue, as he does on many, many interesting and controversial areas within Christianity. Steve | ||
| Steve |
To read Chuck Missler's recent articles on the Sabbath (and other resources) click on the link below: Missler's Articles Steve | ||
| Sherry2 |
To me, the Sabbath day, according to the old covenant, either still stands or it does not. We cannot have it both ways. Was Christ a fulfillment of Sabbath or wasn't he? This has a lot to do with the gospel. How did the Ten commandments become such a creed in the Christian church - did the Roman Catholic church get us focused back on old covenant law, hence the priestly system they have themselves, and we as Christians haven't entirely left the system and are still trying to hang onto the old covenant and new covenant? It can't go both ways. Hebrews makes it plain that the old covenant is obselete, and Today is the Day...as Sabbath represented a time (as stated in that article)of repentance, then so does the Today of Hebrews where it states "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." Did Christ fulfill Sabbath or didn't he? | ||
| Jtree |
I had this incredible thought today. Is the Lord your Shepard? Or...is the 10 C's your shepard. Think about it. 23rd Psalm, The Lord is my Shepard, and I don't deserve this, but guess what? I want it. How about you? | ||
| Djconklin |
With all due respect to Mr. Kuntz he has not thought through his position very carefully. >>"This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God" John 5:18 Was Jesus actually making himself equal with God or was this merely the Jews' accusation? Of course he was claiming personal divinity. This is John's account. Was he also breaking the sabbath? According to the Gospel writer, of course he was.<< If Jesus really had broken the Sabbath commandment then He would have been a sinner and couldn't be the perfect sacrifice for our sins and yet the Bible says that He was that perfect sacrifice. Therefore, while the Jews "thought" that He had broken the Sabbath commandment He in fact had not. John is simply recording their motives and is not evaluating whether or not it was true or not. | ||
| Breezy |
Now that makes sense. Max, could you expound on this since you were conversing with me about Jesus breaking the Sabbath? How could He be the perfect sacrifice if He in essence sinned? Miss the reparte'. Wendy | ||
| Bruceh |
Djconklin ----If Jesus really had broken the Sabbath commandment then He would have been a sinner and couldn't be the perfect sacrifice for our sins and yet the Bible says that He was that perfect sacrifice.--- What you did not take into account Djconklin is that maybe HE IS THE SABBATH, and thus breaking it would show the world that the Sabbath is his, and not a moral Cammandment. Bruce Heinrich BH BH | ||
| Bruceh |
Sherry2 I get Chuck Misslers News letter, Let me quote you from His News letter, which I have in front of me, and see if Adventist and Sabatarians believe in what Chuck has said. Chuck Missler "The Seventh Day" this is directly form the Update. ---Paul emphasized that the Law was a yoke of bondage from which the Christian had been set free (Gal 3:2,3; 5:1 et al.). Paul made no distinction between Moral and ceremonial Law. It was all part of the old covenant which was done away in Christ (2 Cor 3:14). It was "nailed to the cross" (Col 2:14). This is the central teaching of the New Testament. There are no grounds for IMPOSING the Sabbath on the Christians, who is free from the burden of the Law's demands. The Spirit of Christ enables him to fulfill God's will apart from the external observance of the law. The Sabbath is mentioned along with the festivals and new moons, all of which are declared to be "only a shadow of what is to come (Col 2:16, 17) ." To "observe days, and months, and seasons, and years" is deemed to be slaves to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits (Gal 4:9, 10; cf. Col 2:20." The ritual observance of days is a characteristic of "the man who is weak in faith (Rom 14:1-6)."------ Here is some more, I wonder if your sabatarian friend included this in there information, notice how they always keep part of the truth from you. ----In our culture, we enjoy two free days each week, in any case. The first-day worship is thus available to us as an opportunity. The seventh-day Sabbath is also still available to us as an oportunity, YET NOT UNDER THE LAW: Rom 14:5 One mand esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.--- Now if our Sabatarian Friends would agree with this then I do not think we would have any problems, the problem is that they do not. I also believe that Chuck Missler is bitting off more then he can chew. He says "well we circumcise without comming under the Law why cant I keep the Sabbath and not come under the Law". Good luck Chuck Missler I would like to talk to him after a couple of years of this experiment. You know I can remember many blessings with my Sabbath and keeping it. But I will never forget the CURSE, and I believe that the curse is for today. Bruce Heinrich | ||
| Colleentinker |
I agree, Bruce. Jesus IS the Sabbath; by "breaking" the Sabbath commandment (which he did!) he was not sinning. That commandment was a foreshadow of Him. He was what it pointed to. He is the Sabbath rest; He is our Redeemer. We no longer need to observe a period of time to rest and remember that all we have comes from God. We have the finished work of Christ in which to rest! Of course, observing a day for the purpose of spiritual renewal is a wonderful idea, and many (most?) people actually need to take a day away from work. But in the New Testament such a day is not commanded. Rather, our mandate is to learn to live every day, every moment in rest. This past school year I found that mandate strained to the max. I don't believe I've ever had a year in which I literally had so much to do and no time to do it adequately. I began praying that God would show me what I absolutely had to do, that he would give me efficiency and multiply my time, and that he would give me peace about what I couldn't do. God helped me to give him my sense of overwhelm and panic. In spite of having more demands, including emotional ones involving students and their parents, I had an awareness of being at rest in my soul in a way that I've never experienced before. I still craved time off, but I also knew God was with me. And he did give me a sense of peace about what I couldn't acomplish. I'm still learning to live in rest, which doesn't necessarily mean physical rest, and I'm praying that this next school year will be even better in that way. (And, yes, I'm trying to build in more physical rest as well!) But Sabbath truly does have a new meaning for me. Jesus really does live with us and walk with us and help us think and decide and know what to do. Sabbath is Jesus, not Time. That's why when Jesus "broke" the Sabbath laws he didn't sin. He could not sin against himself. The Day was only a shadow of him. He came to show that the real Sabbath had finally come! I really praise God for his presence and his rest. Colleen | ||
| Lydell |
I had the same reaction as you, Bruce, when I read the comments that were sent to Sherry. >PSYCHE - Thinking. So in other words if you have >a negative attitude >(which comes from the wrong unscriptural >thoughts) you've already >broken the Sabbath. Hello! ONE wrong thought means you have broken the sabbath day. So, how many of us are able to guard our thoughts from all "wrong unscriptural thoughts" for one whole 24 hour period? Not hardly gonna happen! The writer of that statement has not yet learned what Paul tells us in Galatians: The law was the tutor to teach us we have sinned and are in need of a Saviour. Once we get to the Saviour, the greater teacher, the need for the tutor is over. Only our true teacher, Christ, can bring real change in our lives that comes out in our actions and words. Keeping sabbath is not a blessing, it is a curse. No let me rephrase that, the only blessing in "keeping the 7th day sabbath" is in finally realizing that it is impossible and that you MUST rest in Christ's completed work on your behalf. Once you've messed about in the shadow, it certainly is glorious to come out into the light! | ||
| Lydell |
By the way, who was it here that was discussing the kingdom of God? Found an online Bible study on the topic and thought they might be interested. | ||
| Lydell |
Sherry, your answer is, "of course you can have communion at home with your family"! But get out there and let the Lord find you a church family. You need that support. | ||
| Darrell |
I searched the Bible to see if the words "curse" and "Sabbath" ever appear together. No match. Then I searched for "curse" and "law" in the New Testement. 3 matches: John 7:49 - Pharasees saying that the "mob" that knows not the law is under a curse (not relevant), Gal 3:10,13 - "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse . . .[, but] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, . . ." I assume that Gal 3 is what Bruce and Lydell are alluding to when they say that the Sabbath is a curse. But please note that the curse is only on those who "rely on observing the law" for their salvation, not on those who are "redeemed from the curse of the law" by Christ. Nowhere in the Bible is the Sabbath cursed, nor does the Bible say that God removed His blessing from it. You who "do not let anyone judge you . . . with regard to a . . . Sabbath day" (Col 2:16) also must not judge others with regard to a Sabbath day. Sometimes I see more legalistic views towards Sabbath among Christians who have left it than among those who are still Sabbatarian. (Not always.) | ||
| Djconklin |
>>There are no grounds for IMPOSING the Sabbath on the Christians, who is free from the burden of the Law's demands. The Spirit of Christ enables him to fulfill God's will apart from the external observance of the law. The Sabbath is mentioned along with the festivals and new moons, all of which are declared to be "only a shadow of what is to come (Col 2:16, 17) ." To "observe days, and months, and seasons, and years" is deemed to be slaves to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits (Gal 4:9, 10; cf. Col 2:20." The ritual observance of days is a characteristic of "the man who is weak in faith (Rom 14:1-6)."------ I think that we can all agree that a mere ritualistic observance of anything/anyday is of no value or worth. However, the laws of God are not a burden to those who love Him. Also, see my study on Col. 2:16-17 to see how superficial this "analysis" is. | ||
| Djconklin |
>>There are no grounds for IMPOSING the Sabbath on the Christians, who is free from the burden of the Law's demands. The Spirit of Christ enables him to fulfill God's will apart from the external observance of the law. The Sabbath is mentioned along with the festivals and new moons, all of which are declared to be "only a shadow of what is to come (Col 2:16, 17) ." To "observe days, and months, and seasons, and years" is deemed to be slaves to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits (Gal 4:9, 10; cf. Col 2:20." The ritual observance of days is a characteristic of "the man who is weak in faith (Rom 14:1-6)."------ I think that we can all agree that a mere ritualistic observance of anything/anyday is of no value or worth. And I suspect that we can all agree that no one should "impose" any of their beliefs or practices on anyone else. However, the laws of God are not a burden to those who love Him. Also, see my study on Col. 2:16-17 at biblestudy.iwarp.com to see how superficial this "analysis" is--in actual fact the text _assumes_ that the Christians of Colossae were keeping the Sabbath and would continue to do so. | ||
| Djconklin |
>>----If Jesus really had broken the Sabbath commandment then He would have been a sinner and couldn't be the perfect sacrifice for our sins and yet the Bible says that He was that perfect sacrifice. --- What you did not take into account Djconklin is that maybe HE IS THE SABBATH, and thus breaking it would show the world that the Sabbath is his, and not a moral Cammandment. The Sabbath commandment is the 4th commandment of the ten Moral commandments. In John Rutherford's <u>St. Paul's Epistles to Collasae and Laodicea</u> (T. & T. Clark, 1908), on page 58 we find him quoting Driver's article on the Sabbath for the Hastings' Bible Dictionary, (vol. 4, page 321) in which it is noted that the "plucking and rubbing of the ears of corn on the sabbath violated the day <i>according to Rabbinical ideas</i>" (emphasis mine). |
