| Author |
Message |
Patti
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 1:00 pm: |     |
Wendy,
Glad I could lift your spirits briefly.
Whatever has got you down, I hope they will be lifted as you read the posts of these folks here who have been plucked "as brands from the burning" by the Holy Spirit. Nothing truly matters except to rely on Jesus Christ to save us. He has promised to do so. Our faith rests in this hope.
Here is a big cyberhug for you.
And speaking of the BB syndrome, I need to get ju lazy self up and get some housework done! :)
God bless,
Patti |
Patti
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 1:02 pm: | |
Yikes!
My hands must have slipped... That was supposed to read "my lazy self.." etc.
Bill,
I hope you will stick around!
We need you!
Patti |
Maryann
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 1:18 pm: | |
Hi Joni,
I'm doing great! They got it all! The heat in Las Vegas has been a killer for me and can't seem to handle it like in the previous 20 years. I'm re-locating and it has really been interesting going through a lot of stuff and watching the yard sale pile GROW!
Once I'm moved and have the kids properly installed in school, I am looking forward to spending time studying and posting again. I have several really neat post nearly done but have not been able to work on them. My mind is elsewhere!
I have between 3 and 4 weeks to get ALL the stuff done I need to do!! You know, pack, yard sale, move a few things, store the rest in the garage and get the house rented! Grrrrr!
I wont have to work the 50-60-70-80 hour weeks that I have been working for years! Part time will do just fine! I'll get to know my kids and even finish MY education by helping with their home work!!!! (that's supposed to be funny!;-))
Bottom line and the reason for this story is that God has had an incredible hand in the last year or so. The correct diagnosis right down to where I'm moving has been GOD GUIDED! Once I land, I'll post a general run down on the events I'm refering to. Some will be repeated but that's okay as there are new people out there that can be blessed by seeing the hand of God working.
Gotta get back to the grinding wheel.....Maryann |
Breezy
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 7:01 pm: | |
Patti,
That's okay, I just thought you were telling me to "get JU big butt off the computer and get some housework done!" Which is what someone should have told me days ago!
P.S. My husband passed his driving test today after never having one, and paying off $6000.00 in tickets last week. Praise the Lord. (I don't have to drive him to work anymore.heheheh!)
Thanks again!
Wendy |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 7:39 pm: | |
Hi, WendyóI am going to miss you on this forum. I wish you didn't have to leave us!
Here's why I believe there can't be grace-oreinted Adventists who actually stay Adventist. I believe that there are many Adventists who discover grace and who don't subscribe to all the official Adventist teachings, practices, and doctrines. But I believe that truth sets us free, and as people find more and more truth, God ultimately leads grace-oriented Adventist out of the church.
The reason I believe that grace-oriented Adventists can't generally stay Adventist is that the official Adventist teachings are not biblical. As people discover truth, God uses them in the venues where they find themselves. That's one way grace spreads in settings of deception. But ultimately His objective is to set everyone free.
Ultimately the question of whether or not to remain Adventist boils down to integrity. Integrity was the ultimate reason that Richard and I decided to leave. We said to each other one day, "How can we teach our boys to live by their consciences and to have integrity if they don't see us acting on what we believe? If we believe Ellen is a false prophet and Adventism teaches non-biblical doctrines, how can we continue to pose as Adventists in front of our boys and expect them to choose honesty in their lives?"
If it weren't for the boys, I'm not sure how the situation would have played out. We believed for a long time that we could stay but live and teach truth. We finally realized, however, that by staying we were tacitly endorsing Adventism. You really can't have it both ways.
I believe Satan has a claim on Adventism and Adventists. He is not happy when Adventists find grace, and he tries very hard to keep them blind to the true freedom that comes from following God into truth as He leads. It really hit us deeply when we acknowledged to ourselves that Adventism, which was built on deception, was not just an accident or a misjudgment. Deception comes from only one sourceóSatanóand we could no longer call ourselves Adventists when we believed it was really under spiritual bondage to Satan.
Even though we believed in grace, to stay when we knew of the dishonesty and deception was to live a lie.
That's our story. I praise God for the astonishing freedom and peace and joy that we found when we finally had the courage to look Adventism in the face and deal honestly with it. God is so good!
Colleen |
Breezy
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 8:01 pm: | |
Hi Colleen!
I haven't given up trying to find the money to stay online. After hocking our lives to pay off those tickets it seems hard. Maybe I'll keep on and if it comes down to grocery money or internet, then I'll give up. I'll just have to see how it goes.
I think Satan is in all churches,just as God is in all churches. I'm sorry to say that even though the church is corrupt, I have my own brand of Adventism and am very comfortable. I choose to call myself an Adventist and remain in my own unique little church. I know what I will present to my children. I am not afraid to confront their teacher and let her know in no uncertain terms that if my kids come home preaching doctrines I have requested withheld, there will be *hiccup* to pay. So, even tho' what I am doing is not right for everyone, it is right for me. And I know that my fellow believers are scattered in small groups everywhere, and we will be reunited some day.
Thank you for all your love and support!
Wendy |
Susan
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 8:42 am: | |
Wendy, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by, "Satan is in all churches, just as God is in all churches." Are you talking about individuals who might be exhibiting their fallen sinful natures? Because, I see the Body of Christ as the holy catholic/universal church. I don't think that Satan has claim over this church! Sure he can tempt parts of the body, perhaps even cause awful things to happen (Job comes to mind here)but utimately God holds the reigns! He has the victory and NOTHING can separate those who belong to Jesus, from the love of God. Not even Satan.
Now, churches that preach another christ are a different story. I beleive Satan has a hold on the people and the church's organization.
Perhaps you can add more to this? I could be misunderstanding you. Sorry if that is the case. Please feel free anyone, to give some insight on this!
In Christ, Susan |
Breezy
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 9:41 am: | |
Susan,
There are members of each body of believers who are not what they seem to be. I believe that Satan has people(?)in his employ to deceive and distract church members from their true purpose. Preaching salvation by grace alone. I do not think any church is free from his attempts to ruin the message. I don't believe he has control of any church in its entirety, but I do think God gives him license to test His believers.
Hope that helps,
Wendy |
George
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 11:20 am: | |
To all,
See what you think of this. By beholding you become changed. If we are always talking about what the devil is doing or can do or might do we give him more power over us because in efect we are beholding him. If give him the power in no other way, it is by concentrating our thoughts on him and not on Christ where thay belong.
We give power to whoever we talk and think about. If we give power to one, we can't be giving it to the other, it is just that simple.
Think about it. What better way for the devil to get power over those that are dead set against him, than to get them to think and worry about what he is going to make them do next!
I am a FREE person and I can do whatever I want to do. Just as Christ will not force me to do what I don't want to do, the devil can't do that eather. If he could then Job would not have been able to withstand the devils temptation.
Isn't that something, the devil can't MAKE you do anything. You have to choose to do it. This should take the fear of the devil away. You have to choose to do wrong, he CAN'T MAKE YOU DO IT.
George |
Patti
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 2:05 pm: | |
Wendy,
I am not sure exactly what the problem is, but there are MANY sources of totally free internet service available. Hopefully in your area. But you can check it out.
Here are a few:
www.bluelight.com
www.freeinet.com
www.altavista.com
www.netzero.net
There are hundreds more. Let me know if any of these might help your problem... If this is your problem.
Anyway, I am also hoping you can stay around.
God bless,
Patti |
Patti
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 5:24 pm: | |
Wendy,
I am going back through this thread and reading all of the previous posts in which all of these wonderful folks here were bending over backwards trying to get you to stay online, even trying to find ways to help you stay online, and I am wondering what happened to that person we knew a month or so ago. Something has happened that has steeled your heart against us in a major way. I am going to take a stab into the darkness. The way I see it, is that you must have been approached, or "studied with" with some staunch SDA friends who warned you about us. Because the change that came over you was immediate and drastic.
Wendy, we are still the same folks who loved you and supported you for months before this. Why the hostility now? We have not changed what we were saying, yet you began treating us with disdain and scorn. Wendy, that is not the "right" spirit. Anything that can change you from a kind and loving sprite of the internet into a judgmental and condemnatory "heavy" spirit cannot be good. Think about what I am saying. If you are honest with yourself, I think you will have to acknowledge what I am saying: We did not change; you did. So since you are still hanging around, why not come back into full fellowship with us instead of believing that you are specially called out of all the people in cyberspace to "set us straight" and to keep the airwaves free of anti-SDAism.
Hoping you will do some serious thinking about the change that has come over you. All we have in this life is each other, Wendy. I remind you yet again, "This is how they will know that you are Mine, that you have love one for another."
Many blessings to you and yours this day and always,
Patti |
Billthompson
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 8:27 am: | |
Patti and Wendy,
My perception is that a change took place when I started asking for testimonies from "djconklin" and "Ken". I asked for three specific areas to be addressed:
--What you are trusting in for salvation?
--Did the blood of Jesus cover just your past sins or ALL your sins?
--Do you have a firm assurance of salvation?
When I asked djconklin these questions, he quit posting on this forum. When I asked Ken he ignored the questions and continued to post for a while until I along with several of you insisted he answer these questions before we would continue. He did not reply but Wendy did reply with anger that we insisted he answer these questions.
Ken has since been absent from this forum. I appealed to him to talk to me in private but to no avail.
Is their a pattern here? I don't know, just my observations.
I know one thing, I am more certain than ever that putting the Gospel first is the way to go. People need the Lord, not debates.
A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone,
Bill Thompson |
Patti
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 10:47 am: | |
Agreed! Unfortunately, when one mentions the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith alone to a legalist, it inevitably turns into a debate of sorts.
However, I was not debating Wendy. The change in her was so drastic and so immediate, I am trying to understand.
And you are right. SDAs do seem to fade into the woodwork when the Gospel is mentioned. From my perspective now, it seems ludicrous that self-proclaimed Christians would shy away so from talking of Jesus Christ and His salvation. Yet, remembering from where I came, I can understand. It is not because they do not WANT to speak of Jesus; they just don't know what to say. Their focus is totally skewed toward Ellen, toward "final day events," and toward themselves. And the finished work of Jesus is the final denouncement of those cherished doctrine. It is hard to let go of those thoughts that have been programmed in since infancy. It is truly an act of faith to let go and let yourself do a free fall into the unknown, trusting that Jesus will keep us safe.
Thank you for your thoughts. You are probably right--I talk too much! Sigh...
Anyway, God bless you and yours,
Grace and peace always,
Patti |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 5:02 pm: | |
Bill, I noticed the reaction to your questions also. I also noticed that letting people know we're praying for them when they seem angry seems to change things.
I believe that God wants us to be able to discern the difference between Light and darkness. He helps us to know what we're dealing with.
And I believe you're right; we have to deal with salvation first.
Thank you!
In His grace,
Colleen |
Joni
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 5:32 pm: | |
Bill,
I want you to know that I copied down the questions to ask on a card and put them in my purse. I want to remember them. We are going to see my Dad, we are leaving tomorrow. He has had some Mormons coming to visit him 2 or 3 times a week. If I meet them I want to be prepared. Thank you!
Joni |
Bmorgan
| | Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 7:25 pm: | |
Patti,
Believe it or not; yesterday and today I have been thinking those very thoughts you stated, and also planned to address Wendy. The issue warrants a response from me.
Wendy, you constantly baffle me. I am terribly sadden by your attitude (Jedkyl and Hyde). I will not question your relationship with Christ. However, your expressions of obvious malice, harshness, hostility and cruelty to members, justify me asking you the three questions (compliments Bill Thompson). Afterall, we need to be accountable to one another.
--What you are trusting in for salvation?
--Did the blood of Jesus cover just your past sins or ALL your sins?
--Do you have a firm assurance of salvation?
You often say you KNOW or knew about the grace message, yet you write/post messages with such harshness. You sound judgemental, condemnatory, contentious in tone.
You constantly accuse others of being hostile to you, you act very defensive saying hurtful words to members and seems clueless about your attitude. I cringe at the way you lash out at persons without provocation.
Yet they continue to treat you with kindness and love. In a post you addressed to Richard Tinker, recently, you accused his wife, Colleen, of calling you a slanderous name. Come on Wendy, who is the victim here. And the audacity to DEMAND an apology.
You were so very quick to make a judgement call and even slander a person, who is "alledgedly" stumbing. How about doing WJD? "He that is without sin cast the first stone."
I have to believe there is a point, (by divine ap-Point-ment), that you are here on this forum. Firstly, it is clearly proves our point. The general spirit and atmosphere within SDAism -deception.
Next, there is a misunderstanding of and widespread ignorance within that denomination of the TRUE experience of Grace. It is a life changing reality. Jesus becomes LORD in our lives.
Furthermore, it gives us the opportunity to practice godliness-a servant's attitude. We will wash your feet, Wendy. As many time as you get them dusty(insults, accusation and condemnation)
We are commanded by Jesus (new covenant) A new command I (Jesus) give love the Lord your God with all your heart, and soul and mind and STRENGTH. and love your neighbor as yourselves. By this shall all men know that ye are his disciples; if you have love for one another.
Wendy, I can continue on with my observation of your attitude, but so many people have already expressed it.
I am appealling to your heart. Disagree with us, but be agreeable and POLITE. Please be graceful.
I am not condemning you.
I take hope in Christ that you will one day understand who and where we are. Also, you will not only say what you know about grace but share your expression of joy in Christ with us.
Hope does not disappoint us, for God has poured His love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit whom He has given us.
May the GRACE of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.
TO ALL: Thank God for the opportunity we have to testify of Christ and what He is doing in our lives on a daily basis.
There's a sweet, sweet spirit in this place, and I know that it's the spirit of the Lord. There's a sweet expression in many POSTs. I now it must be from the Lord.
Sweet Holy Spirit, sweet heavenly Dove; stay right here with us (on this forum), filling us with your love. And with each posting, we lift our hearts to you, without a doubt we know, when you've been revived, for we (FORMERS)have survived -SDAism, And, everytime we discern the contentiousness from those who refuse to leave it.
With love, to Wendy,
Bmorgan |
Billthompson
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 10:49 am: | |
Colleen,
I agree with your comments about letting people know we are praying for them. I pray for people I have confrontations with online as a rule but hardly ever tell them I am praying for them.
I also pray for myself, that I will not allow pride or some other feeling to interfer with what God wants to say through me. Maybe I'll start telling them I am praying for them and myself, that our conversations will lead us both closer to His plan for our lives and to each other as a consequence.
A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone,
Bill Thompson |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 6:04 pm: | |
Good point, Bill. Susan has said on this forum something I believe in; before we actually post, we ought to pray for God to direct our words through the Holy Spirit as we write.
It's really an astonishing thing that the Holy Spirit can actually be present in cyberspace. Here we are on the internet, the ultimate in impersonal, fantasy-prone communication, and God can still infuse it with truth and reality and grace and his powerful love.
We need to stay open to Jesus and ask him to keep us from deception and pride and arrogance. I know I need God's constant help in those areas. I pray that he will teach me what I need to learn, reveal to me what I need to know, and change what needs changing in me.
In His grace,
Colleen |
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