| Author | Message | ||
| jtree |
What does it mean to worship God in truth? ëGod is Spirit and those who worship God must be led by the Spirit to worship Him according to the truth.í John 4:24 We know and acknowledge God for who He is according to the way He is portrayed in His Word. Jesus, especially in Johnís gospel, is the truth. Hence, we come to the Father through the Son who is the truth. ëI am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.í John 14:6 | ||
| Max |
This is a great, positive gospel work you are doing Joshua, my friend. Thank you so much! and may God bless your efforts manyfold. --Max | ||
| Lori |
jtree I think that to worship God in spirit and in truth means very simply that we absorb the truths of His word through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And that this act of becoming more and more familiar with His word is the only kind of worship that pleases God. Daily taking in His word, and metabolizing it, so that it becomes a part of us is what true worship really is. Lori | ||
| Ritchie |
jtree: Here's a rather simplistic explanation that I've heard in Adventist circles: ...in Spirit = right attitude (reverence, etc.) ...in Truth = right manner (correct day, format, etc.) What do you think? | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Ritchie, I'm so thankful that I'm out of the SDA "circle of spirit and truth!!! That circle keeps you "chasing the 'tail' of salvation". You seldom have it in your hand and when you do, it's slippery, very slippery. Praise God for HIS SPIRIT AND TRUTH!! :-)) Maryann | ||
| Colleentinker |
Here's another suggestion re: "in spirit and in truth". When we are born again we become alive spiritually. As Paul says in I Corinthians, spiritual things are spiritually discerned. That spiritual discernment comes in our spirits, that part of us that communicates with the Holy Spirit and becomes alive when we're born again. Truth is not only right information; it's reality itself, which we can't completely see because we're so limited. But God reveals reality and truth to us spiritually. He reveals to us the truth about ourselves and about him. Perhaps worshiping him in spirit and in truth has to do with our awakened spirits being open to him and to his voice and his teachings. Perhaps it means praising and honoring him in our deepest self, in our awakened spirit, and embracing the truth and reality he reveals to us as we study the Bible and listen for his promptings and then making those truths part of our understanding and our lives. Colleen | ||
| Ritchie |
Hi, Maryann! My parents and in-laws come from Catholic backgrounds. My wife and I also know quite a bit about Catholic traditions and teachings from many close friends and neighbors. Looking back at our SDA past it is astonishing to see the disturbing similarities between Adventist and Catholic traditions and beliefs when it comes to worshipping God 'correctly'. Is there such a thing as 'Seventh-day Catholics' or 'Adventist Catholics'? | ||
| Cindy |
Lori, I like what you wrote about daily taking in the word of God and "metaboizing" it. Seeing all Scripture as pointing to and being fulfilled in Christ has really opened my eyes to understand it more! The true WORD OF GOD, Jesus Christ! supercedes everything; and the Holy Spirit in us is given to testify of Him, our only Hope and Security! Grace Always, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
Ritchie, I hadn't heard the formula stated like that, but realize that is the way it is presented. "....in Spirit = right attitude (reverence, etc.) ...in Truth = right manner (correct day, format, etc.)" This type of thinking compartmentalizes 'sacred' versus 'secular',I feel. It is something I've questioned for a long time. I think Christ is to permeate our whole life, to absorb all of our life, to be the center of our existence!! Please check out the thread "What then is acceptable worship....". and see the other comments there... Blessings to you! Have you been a religion teacher? You mentioned something about teaching... Always by Grace, Cindy | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Ritchie, Good to hear from you! You said: "Looking back at our SDA past it is astonishing to see the disturbing similarities between Adventist and Catholic traditions and beliefs when it comes to worshipping God 'correctly'. Is there such a thing as 'Seventh-day Catholics' or 'Adventist Catholics'?" George has been saying that for a long time! Is there any chance that you could be "the one" that could point out legitimate similarities between the two? It could be that is why you found this site! There are a lot of facts that you could draw on from your experience that would shock "searching" SDAs into really serious Bible study. Maryann | ||
| Cindy |
Ritchie and Maryann, I know of someone who was a Roman Catholic Priest, left that and became a Seventh-day Adventist Pastor! (This was in the 1960's... and think he married an Adventist woman, also.) A few years later he left S.D.A.ism for the basic gospel message and now has had a ministry to ex-catholics for many years... I'll have to find the info on this ministry if I can. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Ritchie |
Hi, Cindy! You asked if I had been a religion teacher -- well, I taught in SDA academies for a total of 7 years as a Bible teacher. I also have an M. Div. from Andrews. I discovered God's grace about 8 years ago, halfway through my teaching career (how could I have missed it all throughout college and seminary?). What a change in my teaching perspective that brought! Unfortunately, my last teaching contract was not renewed because of the strong influence of historic Adventist board members. It was amazing to see local pastors and church leaders who understood (and welcomed!) my grace orientation butt heads with those who held power. Truly a sad story... How about yourself? Have you taught as well? | ||
| Ritchie |
Hi, Maryann! I'm not sure about being "the one" to explain it all but I'd surely like to help. Here is an interesting piece that a colleague emailed me a few months ago. It was put together by a group called CURE (Christians United for Reformation) to determine whether you are Protestant or Catholic in your theology. I wish I knew more about the background of this test or this group (or how to interpret your score). Perhaps someone can do some research on the internet. Anyway, here's the test. "Are You Catholic or Protestant?" Do you have a Catholic or Protestant view of salvation? Test yourself and see. Evaluate each of the following ten paired statements and mark the one that you think best states a Protestant doctrinal position. (1a) God gives a man right standing with Himself by mercifully accounting him innocent and virtuous. (1b) God gives a man right standing with Himself by actually making him into an innocent and virtuous person. (2a) God gives a man right standing with Himself by placing Christ's goodness and virtue to his credit. (2b) God gives a man right standing with Himself by putting Christ's goodness and virtue into his heart. (3a) God accepts the believer because of the moral excellence found in Jesus Christ. (3b) God makes the believer acceptable by infusing Christ's moral excellence into his life. (4a) If a sinner becomes "born-again" (the regenerating, transforming process of character), he will achieve right standing with God. (4b) If the sinner is granted right standing with God through faith ("born-again"), he will then experience transformation of character. (5a) We receive right standing with God by faith alone. (5b) We receive right standing with God by faith which has become active by love. (6a) We achieve right standing with God by having Christ live out His life of obedience in us. (6b) We achieve right standing with God by accepting the fact that He obeyed the law perfectly for us. (7a) We achieve right standing with God by following Christ's example by the help of His enabling grace. (7b) We follow Christ's example because His life has given us right standing with God. (8a) God first pronounces that we are good in His sight, then gives us His Spirit to make us good. (8b) God sends His Spirit to make us good, and then He will pronounce that we are good. (9a) Christ's finished work on the cross and intercession at God's right hand gives us favor in the sight of God. (9b) It is the indwelling Christ that gives us favor in God's sight. (10a) Only by the imputation of Christ's righteousness through faith can we fully satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments. (10b) By the power of the Holy Spirit living in us, we can fully satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments. | ||
| Graceambassador |
First is a take that I like but is too symbolic. Second, you will find it more hermeneutically possible: First: Jesus said that those who worship God should worship God in Him. God is a Spirit, says Jesus. Then Jesus says that He himself is the truth. So worshipping God in Spirit and Truth is worshipping God via Jesus and no longer via the law or Moses. Second: All that Jesus had to teach during the Gospel days was that a New Thing (Gospel) had just arrived. Jews and Samaritans were concerned about location, location, location and then places, shrines, temples and visible things. Jesus comes to teach that in this New Thing, the Good News type of thing, men and women would not have any need of "special places, "days", "cerimonies" and "intermediaries". Right here, in Jesus' statement he removes the important of: a physical place of worship a special day to worship a special ceremony to worship and the priestly "middle man" worship. This is more in tune with the conversation he was having with the woman at the well who questioned Jesus about a location to worship (context, context, context). Also, note that such location had been given by "oral tradition" since she received from her fathers. Praise God, in Jesus we have a new thing, brethren... I repeat: No special location No special day No special cerimony No special person!!! Those who worship God should worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Note the contrast with legalism: Spirit - in contrast with physical places, days and persons. Truth - no more worship based upon religious obligations. Rather, now we have the impartation of The Spirit of God, which will then, teach us to worship God. (Jesus said that the Spirit would teach us all things!). I dare to repeat with other words: CHRISTIANITY IS THE ONLY FAITH THAT TEACHES THAT: GOD IS SEEKING FOR MANKIND AND NOT THE OPPOSITE GOD, THE OFFENDED ONE IS OFFERING PARDON TO THE OFFENSOR GOD INDEED BECAME THE SACRIFICE FOR THE OFFENSOR IS THE ONLY FAITH WITHOUT A TEMPLE OTHER THAN OUR OWN BODIES IS THE ONLY FAITH THAT WHOSE FOUNDER PROMISED TO ABIDE IN US AND THAT PROMISE BECAME TRUTH AMONG MANY EYE WITNESSES IN THE DAY OF PENTECOST WHEN HE SENT US HIS HOLY SPIRIT Sad to say, but I feel sorry for other "faiths"! In His Service The formula of Salvation: GRACE PLUS NOTHING!!!! Brother Milt Grace Ambassador | ||
| Cindy |
Ritchie, Hi again! No, I've never been a teacher except Primary S.S. Class. :-)) I have always loved religious (theology) studies...and because of my family situation, have immersed myself in studying these things for myself for many years... trying to make sense of Adventist doctrine compared to the glorious free Grace of God has been a challenge! Thanks for posting the 'are you a catholic or protestant?' quiz. My answers: 1a,2a,3a,4b,5a,6b,7b,8a,9a,10a. This has been, and continues to be an age-old conflict of how we are saved--all Christ or Christ plus something ... my earnestness, my prayers, my works of love, etc. The subtle danger comes when they say, of course! it's all by faith: I have faith in Christ's work and also continued faith in Him that he will change me into what he desires... And, of course, the Holy Spirit DOES enter the man or woman who BELIEVES in the FINISHED WORK of CHRIST for them... But we must never MIX the two, ever! The absolute Grace message is all about Christ!, what HE HAS DONE!... not about us what we DO... Christ ALONE has accomplished ALL the reconciliation needed between God and man. All we can do is say, like the tax collector in Luke 18, "God, be merciful to me, a sinner." We must first, always acknowledge our sinfulness and secondly, acknowledge that ONLY Christ is sinless! Lastly, we must fall on the mercy of Christ's shed blood on the cross, symbolic of the blood sprinked on the Mercy Seat of Old Testament times. Jesus alone is our mercy seat, He is an all-sufficient Sacrifice and Substitution for us! Always a debtor to His Mercy and Grace Alone, Cindy | ||
| Sherry2 |
Where's the right answers to that test so you can see where your philosophy falls? I found it very interesting! | ||
| Cindy |
Dear GraceAmbassador/Uncle Milt :-)), Good post above!! I agree! Because of the Fulfillment in Jesus' life, death, and resurrection FOR us we no longer have to be limited!!-- to specific Ceremonies, specific Persons to mediate this Grace, specific Days, or specific Locations!! We can come boldly to God, to the throne of Grace, only because of JESUS' Complete and Finished Work of Reconciliation. He has gained us access to the Father for us into this Grace in which we now stand! Our grateful response to this indescribable gift is to Worship Him! And now, in this New Covenant way, it is so much better! We can now worship Him in Spirit and in Truth WHEREVER we are... and WHENEVER we want, 24 hours a day, seven days a week!! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Jtree |
I recently heard a song: Are you running to the Mercy seat? | ||
| Cindy |
Jtree. Sounds like a good song! I've heard that 'Propitiation', a big word describing Christ's Substitutionary work for us, is actually translated in the Septuigent as 'mercy seat'. I don't have the Greek scripture to check this out, but it makes sense. Jesus' blood is the sacrifice that God sees!! Just as the heart of Jewish worship pointed to the Day of Atonement and the sprinkled blood of the sacrifice on the Mercy Seat...so Jesus' blood is poured out for us at the Final 'Day of Atonement' at the Cross. The way into the very Presence of God has been opened to us!...symbolic of the temple veil being ripped at the time of Jesus' death. And ripped from TOP to bottom! Salvation is all from God to us!!! Praise Him! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Graceambassador |
Hi Cindy! Hey, thanks for the words! By the way! I love "Uncle Milt"! Just one more of my stories: I've been called everything, good and bad! I've been called "Reverend" because of my credentials, I've been called radical because of my position in Grace. But you know what? It is just a great sense of belonging and closeness with the brethren when they call me "Uncle Milt". In Brazil, most of the Christian youth (there are cuhrches there whose age bracket is from 13 to 35, no more) they all call their pastors "uncles". I am not different! I am not "your" pastor and could never be given such an honor, but I love Uncle Milt. My own sons (22, 20, 18) call me Uncle Milt sometimes in public! NO ONE should feel have any reservation in calling me Uncle Milt. It does not make me old, it does not make me undignified, it actually makes me feel like family and more dignified than the legalistic REVEREND! I use a trade-mark in my conversaions, my web site Embassy of Grace, and in all my dealings with people, even enemies: BE GRACE-FULL! Just like that, with the hyphen! Uncle Milt makes me feel GRACE-FULL and personable! Being personable has not caused me any harm yet because "it is not I who live..." For His Glory! Grace Ambassador |
