| Author | Message | ||
| Chyna |
hi, i think i'll introduce myself seeing that I feel like I know all of you from reading your posts for several weeks now. i found faf because I had been dating an adventist guy for about a year and was asking questions about it to him. I, myself, was raised Baptist, but soon discovered I preferred a nondenominational church because I felt like it was more what God wanted, less division in the church. anyway, when I found all the different doctrine stemming from EGW's writings I was both confused and puzzled where adventist get their scriptural basis for their ideas. we ended up breaking up, and I think, for a major part because of the differences in our beliefs. I recently asked him about IJ, and he replied talking about the sanctuary and the day of atonement in exodus I think? then he made some obscure reference to Daniel and how the 3200 days proves that 1844 was when Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary. could someone please explain why adventists believe this? adventists only want to marry adventists because those are the only type of people that both understand their doctrine and willing to go along with it. I was quite perturbed to hear that there are adventists schools from kindergarten to grad school and that my boyfriend had been in them his whole life. I don't understand why adventists don't think it is odd that they need to be in adventist education constantly. also the communities that adventists have? the only other religious population I've heard of doing this is Mormon, and we know for sure that they have really messed up unbiblical doctrine. anyway, I am very frustrated talking to my now ex-boyfriend about the heterodoxical doctrine he has because even though he'll say that he doesn't think the SDA church is completely correct about everything about the bible, he still believes in the doctrine they have presented to him his entire life. prior to his behavior of late I still wanted us to study the bible together with a teacher from my church, about hell (eternal or annihilation), or eternal security (or losing your salvation). *sigh* I don't know. it is worth trying? or should I just pray for him instead and not try to show him scripture because he reacts blindly to it? feeling defeated, Chyna | ||
| Colleentinker |
Dear Chyna, Welcome to our discussion! You've asked a lot of good and in-depth questions. As for why Adventists believe in the IJ, there's no really good explanation. The doctrine grew out of the Great Disappointment in 1844 when the Millerites expected Jesus to come back. (William Miller had said he believed Jesus would return in 1844.) When Jesus didn't come back, most of the Millerites repented of their date-setting (the date of Jesus' return was something Jesus said no one knows) and returned to their churches. The people who became the Adventists did not repent but decided to find an explanation for the 1844 date which they believed had to mean something. The 1844 date is not a date found in the Bible. William Miller's calculations were based on several assumptions which were not based on actual fact. The early Adventists came up with the explanation that Jesus began the IJ IN HEAVEN in 1844, and that's what the date was about instead of being about Jesus coming again. The IJ cannot be found in the Bible. It is based on Ellen Wbite's "visions" and writings, and Adventists have tried to make certain Bible passage fit her interpretations. Without Ellen, though, there would be no IJ. For more information about the IJ you could visit Dale Ratzlaff's site using the link from this website. He has written an excellent book about it called "The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists". (See our home page for links.) Adventists who do not want to know the truth cannot study the Bible without a veil over their hearts. (II Cor. 3:14-16) When a person is in this "veiled" state, he or she really needs prayer. As Ritchie pointed out on another thread on this site, you can't convince an Adventist of the error of his church unless he has experienced God's grace. Without a personal experience of God's grace, a person has nowhere to go if he discovers the church's deception. It becomes a crisis of faith, and disappointment and bitterness become overwhelming. I know others on this site will have insights for you, too. Again, welcome. We will be praying for you! Colleen | ||
| Chyna |
thanks! *sigh* I just wish he could see the Bible sans EGW influence, but twenty-five years is a long time to be adventist and not anything else. | ||
| Steve |
Hi Chyna, You're absolutely right. The Mormons and SDAs both provide "cradle to grave" institutions so that the members don't ever have to experience the real world of ideas and the tougher theological questions that are asked by such as those you find on this site. This "cradle to grave" phenomena is well documented in the book Seeking a Sanctuary. The book was out a few years ago (late 80's, early 90's?). In the book was some very interesting information on the fact that an individual can be born in an Adventist hospital, go to a SDA preschool, attend an SDA kindergarten, elementary, high school, college, university, work in an SDA institution in medicine, education, publishing, or a variety of other disciplines, retire on an SDA pension, grow old in an SDA retirement home, die there and have a good SDA funeral service. All without leaving the comfort of the Adventist lifestyle or teaching. It's really a sad commentary on the fact that SDAs do not fit in society any better than Mormons do. There have been successful Mormons. There have been successful SDAs. But the nature of their theology allows for a complete mental separation from the rest of society. Yes, 25 years is a long time to be Adventist and not anything else. It's especially sad when being an Adventist overshadows being a Christian. I'm fortunate. I've been in for 15 years, and am finding my way out. Many are not so fortunate, and they don't even know that. Steve | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Chyna, Welcome! That's cool, you feel you know us from reading for the last few weeks. I really enjoyed your story. You have gained a few important insights! I really understand your desire to "go" non-denominational. I tossed EGW and religion at 18. I tried a few sunday churches in 20+ years and got really discourgaged. One Baptist church just about caused me to toss religion again! I have now found two neat non-denominational churches. (in different states) Keep on reading and posting. You, I'm sure will contribute real well as you have a different perspective that most of us. Maryann | ||
| Cindy |
Welcome Chyna, Glad you're here! And I will enjoy your perspective on these issues, also... Always in grace, Cindy p.s. I like your name! | ||
| Chyna |
thanks for the responses, i just get so frustrated wanting to snap the light on for him, when the light switch has been there all the time, but only he can flip it. i guess i just fell into the trap of thinking that by being in his life that he would start to see things differently, but now I see that he wanted the same for me, too. you're right steve, the biggest difficulty in our relationship was that he was Adventist before he was anything else. because God's love is not divisive, it's unifying. I tried to tell Him that Adventist seclude themselves off from other Christians. He said that other Christians had colleges too, but I countered with the fact that all sorts of Christians from different backgrounds get together and worship together. When I tried to say ultimately what day you worship on is about how your heart is, he agreed, but then he said that it was still important to observe the symbolism of the Sabbath. I was genuinely confused how he could acknowledge that Christianity is really about how your heart seeks God rather than exterior religious practices and still be so against attending a church on Sundays. when we broke up he said he was sure I'd be happier with someone who believed the same things as I did. I agree with him in a way, but in another way I disagreed with him because I felt like he was taking the easy way out. He had said that he wanted us to read scripture together to test our beliefs, but that sentiment died quickly when it became apparent how different our doctrine went. I also think that he just thought it would be easier to go along with someone who was adventist that he didn't have to constantly explain his beliefs to. now, I realize that since I'm not longer a direct influence on his life, I can't put myself into the role of helping him see the light, all I can do is pray and trust God, and maybe that's what God has wanted all along. right now, I am taking mental steps to forgive him. i was very angry that we got so close and then in the end to break up over our beliefs when we had promised not to break up over them. i was mad that he broke up with me because i wasn't adventist and not willing to go along with the whole adventist education for our (potential) children when a blind person could see that that's not what God wants for His people I counted myself as blessed for going to a secular school because the most effective way of reaching nonChristians is to be their friends, and there's not a whole lot of potential when you constantly surround yourself with those of the same faith as adventists are prone to doing. so I'm taking steps to forgive him, it's been a tumultuous journey, but if i hadn't met him, i wouldn't have ended up here :). in Christ, Chyna | ||
| Cindy |
Chyna, It is so interesting to read your thoughts above! You sound like a very intelligent woman and one who is in tune with the Holy Spirit in her life! I think that praying and trusting God about your former boyfriend is the best you can do right now. The Sabbath issue is so central to their identity that it is hard to know where to start in bringing him to challenge EGW's 'inspired commentary' on all sorts of doctrinal beliefs. Is he open to reading anything other than S.D.A. articles or books? I still believe, though, that the very basics of GRACE, the Message of the Cross and Christ's completely finished work for us is where everyone must begin! (and end!!) If you former boyfriend believes in this, and is open to the Holy Spirit's leading, it may be a gradual process-- but he will be guided to see the supremacy of Christ more and more. His eyes will be opened to Scripture to see how JESUS is the FOCUS and FULFILLMENT of ALL the Shadows and Prophecies and Promises there!! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Allenette |
"Seeking a Sanctuary, Seventh-Day Adventism and the American Dream", is IMHO, the most important contemporary book available/written on the subject. I have mentioned it on here before, but TRULY, if you want to understand the nuances of the denomination (some of us, myself included,probably think/thought we knew it all, meant kindly, but until you read these author's -- they are 1) a reputed English journalist and 2) an Oxford professor--I'd trust them over most American authors anyday--sorry MAX big wide GGG NO OFFENSE INTENDED!!! Please try to get a copy. It will be helpful in unravelling your own ex-SDA "Issues" (boy I hate that word--'issues') Wish I could offer a money-back guarantee but, like your SDA leaders told you, "trust me". honest GGGGG's. | ||
| Chyna |
thanks for the recommendation. i'll try to find the book. what also frustrated me is with all the time we spent arguing about doctrine, we didn't spend even a fraction of that time studying the bible together about aspects of God character and study of a godly life which i regard as much more important than the issue of worshipping on what day, we should worship everyday :). i'm sending him e-mail with these verses now. please pray that this will be a small crack in the shell of his adventist doctrine. although with all the extensive studying i have done, it does truly seem to show that God did abolish the sabbath Amos 8:4-9 -- Hear this, you who trample the needy and do away with the poor of the land, saying "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the Sabbath be ended that we may market wheat?" -- skimping the measure, boosting the price and cheating with dishonest scales . . . "In that day," declares the Sovereign Lord, "I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight. I will turn your religious feasts into mourning and all your singing into weeping." Mark 15:33-37 -- At the sixth hour (Noon) darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour (3:00PM) and at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice . . . "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?" Vs. 37 -- With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last. Hosea 2:11 -- I will stop all her celebrations; her yearly festivals (Passover, trumpets, tabernacles, etc.), her new moons, (monthly), her Sabbath days (weekly appointed feasts) -- all her appointed feasts. Lev. 23:1,2 -- The Lord said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: These are my appointed feasts, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies: Vss. 3-43 (Moses then lists in order and scribes each of these appointed feasts). 1. The Sabbath 2. The Passover & Unleavened Bread 3. First Fruits 4. Feast of Weeks 5. Feast of Trumpets 6. Day of Atonement 7. Feast of Tabernacles | ||
| Cindy |
Chyna, interesting how you put together Amos and Mark. I can see the similarities. Also, in Amos 8:5 where it says, "saying, WHEN will the New Moon be over that we may sell grain, and THE SABBATH BE ENDED that we may market wheat?" reminds me so much of the comments of many S.D.A.'s I've heard. Granted, there are many who absolutely enjoy this day of relaxation! But I have heard these comments too... On long summer Sabbath days I've heard "Oh, the Sabbath is just so LONG!" Or, on the short winter days when Friday sundown is so early, "Oh, sundown is so early!! I can't get everything done I need to!" It used to (now thankfully, some years ago,) give me a state of anxiety racing around cleaning, cooking ahead for Sabbath dinner, etc. But then, I was one who always enjoyed long Friday nights since I can sit for hours reading. In fact, I still get that "Friday night feeling" ANY night I turn the T.V. off, put some quiet music on and sit and read!! :-)) And many times from children and teenagers..."When's Sabbath over?" or "What time is sundown?" A few times I'd say something like this to them: "exactly 13 minutes and 47 more seconds!" The reason being, then they can play Nintendo, watch T.V., go to a movie, etc.... AND HAVE FUN!!! It is a challenge to show kids (I used to try to in my Primary S.S. Class) that they should glorify God in everything they do and at all times. What is "bad" to do on the Sabbath should be bad to do anytime. Of course there is time for Church and corporate Worship and we can do some different, outside nature-type fun things too for a change of pace; but it can easily turn into what's right and what's wrong to do on that specific day! This really is the "Final Test" for True Believers and Adventists feel that the more they faithfully "Keep" this day, the more they show their loyalty to God. Again, to me, the separation between Sacred and Secular is a false separation now in the New Covenant. I like what Colleen said in the thread, 'What then is acceptable worship...?' "There's no such thing as "sacred" and "secular" in a Christ-follower's life because Christ through the Holy Spirit is always with him/her." Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Chyna |
i think that one of the reasons that SDA's keep with "Sabbath rest," is because sometimes it is genuinely restorative. In a busy modern world like ours, taking a day to do relaxing things is wonderful. of course the problem is like the pharisees (sp?) what is lawful, and what is unlawful. I think there's a verse in the Bible that said, "behold, I make all things lawful." I didn't realized I was observing the sabbath in accordance to SDA policy when I visited these SDA missionaries in China with my ex, and we spent the afternoon lolly-gagging, just reading books and listening to music before dinner. it was nice, a little quiet, but it was pleasant. i'm having trouble finding "Seeking a Sanctuary ..." Where would I find it? i searched for it on amazon, but no dice. As for grace, I just read Philip Yancey's, "What's So Amazing About Grace?" It was a wonderful reminder of how Christians are portrayed in the media and in politics as thoroughly ungracious beings, and how we need to show grace to reflect God's character. Another qualm i have about adventism is that even though some will admit that eating meat is not a sin they still continue to preach the "health message." but it was God, Himself, who commanded Peter to eat the formerly "unclean" foods. saying something like: "what I have made clean, clean." (sorry, no Bible handy). so even though some have relaxed about vegetarianism, it is still widely practiced among adventists and seems much more like a stumbling block than a way to glorify God. a stumbling block whenever an adventist gives a pointed glance at a meat eater at the table :). Another strong tie that other Christians and families could do well to learn from is the strong sense of community in the church. True, it is an exclusive community, but within it, there seems to be a lot of quality time spent with one another. in a way, the different doctrine Adventists believe in is a way to tie them closer together because when they defend it they feel more of a solidarity towards each other from "outside persecution" which very well may be just Christians innocuously intending to discuss the Bible. just some thoughts, in Him, Chyna | ||
| Susan |
Hi Cyna, welcome! My heart goes out to you. It's hard to go through a break-up with someone you really care about. It sounds like you still care a great deal about this fellow. I think you truly have the Spirit in you because, you've held on remarkably well to your convictions. Sometimes when we are "head-over-heels" it's hard not to compromise for the sake of the relationship. But the great thing is, God is in control. He brought you together with your former boyfriend, and He has a plan/purpose even in the break-up. Perhaps it's God's will for you to one day get back together, or God may have someone else in mind. But He does have the perfect plan for you! It sounds like you've given this guy a great deal to think about. Remember it's not us that brings a soul to God. We are called to plant seeds, water, fertilize and love. God gives life! It's wonderful to stay true to God and His word. It's also wise of you to learn all you can about Adventism. Then you can better know what your dealing with. I'll pray that God will be with you in a special way through all of this. Cindy, I also like Colleen's statement that you quoted! The whole "sabbath" thing is entirely different now for me. When I first became a Christian I tried to observe Sun. in the same way. (I know many Sun. keepers who do the same thing!) Anyway, it kind-of became the same burdensome thing. You know, spot-less house, shopping all done, casserole in the fridge, clothes ironed, etc. Don't get me wrong, these things are all fine to do. They can make Sun. go alot smoother! But once it dawned on me that Jesus IS my sabbath rest, I really gained a whole new outlook. Every moment, every breath of my life now has entered into the eternal "rest" of Jesus Christ. The older I get the more I want to be a "Mary" and not a "Martha". I want to soak up the presence of Christ. I want to grow in God's wisdom, through the word, sermons, fellowship with the body and prayer. If I have time to clean and cook once in awhile, then great! But it's often difficult to break free from a life of SDA "perfectionism", believe me I know! It comes back to haunt me all the time. The home I grew up in was sooo superficial. When we had company, the house had to be just perfect (God forbid anyone were to open a closet or drawer though!). But you know, there was no connecting. Everything was so phony. It was all about who could make the best meatless casserole, that tasted just like meat! Anyway, if there's anyone out there struggling with all of this sabbath stuff, just give it all to Jesus. Let him embrace you and sit at His feet to "just listen". Resting in the only assurance there is, Jesus! Susan | ||
| Allenette |
Chyna: w o w it looks like that book has gone out of print, but...you can still put in an order for it on Amazon.com, I just checked. Because I feel very strongly about this book, I will see what I can do to locate a copy. Books, unlike say, commercial cd's or tapes go out of print faster than you can say "Jack Robinson". boo hoo :-) Mission Impossible: Find Chyna a copy of "Seeking a Sanctuary". ggg Mission accepted. gggg pssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh | ||
| George |
Hi Guys, I have been wanting to talk about psychology and religion for a long time. It is a subject that will not be well accepted by very many, but it should be addressed. If we see someone that is totally taken over be a cult, we would have no trouble saying they didnít have a strong belief system. This means they donít have a strong belief in anything, or a belief in their own ability to figure out what to believe in. When this happens, and they have a strong need to believe in something, they will give up control and let someone or something dictate what they will believe. The belief then becomes so strong they give up all responsibility for what they believe in. This is where the trouble lies, they go along completely oblivious to the consequence of letting someone do their thinking for them. Does this sound familiar? It sounds like Sun Yung Moon, David Koresh and Jimmy Jones to name a few. The sad fact is, these people will go from one place to another looking for someone to take responsibility for there thinking never realizing the responsibility is theirs and they can do it for themselves. What do you think so far, let me know. George | ||
| Cindy |
Hi George! I think there are many who WANT and NEED the 'security' of someone telling them what to believe! There is a sense of security and safeness, I suppose, in having the rules and regulations of life spelled out to you. In some ways, it makes life easier... But the downside of this is you lose your FREEDOM and JOY!! Creativity is squelched and the Holy Spirit's leading, comfort and peace is missing... at least it would be for me! I like to think and study for myself and I feel Jesus' gift of GRACE has given me the liberty to really be myself! Good to hear from you again, George! Always Grace, Cindy | ||
| Chyna |
it is interesting to regard the upbringing of Adventists as a key component of their faith and how they practice. I was reading somewhere that they were not accredited colleges for awhile and had to go to other institutions to earn degrees and doctorates and that opened up doors to them in understanding. i just feel like many Adventists need a goodly dose of the real world. especially in regard to other Christians. in Him, Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
oops, also, I was listening to John MacArthur today about Daniel 9 and he was saying from the time measured in Daniel, it predicted when Jesus would enter the city of Jerusalem before his crucifixtion. which is a very wide contrast to the 3200 days leading to investigative judgement. me again, Chyna | ||
| George |
Hi Cindy and the rest of you, Yes we do give up our freedom when we let others do our thinking for us. This can be very dangerous spiritually, how do we know what we are being feed. And do we really know who is feeding us? It could be anyone masquerading as Godís servant, look at Koresh, he was sure he was right, and so sure he convinced many people to follow him. Why do we do this? I think one way we learn to do this at a very young age is by being told exactly how to do things time and time again so we donít have to think about how to do them, because, we know we will be told how--- again. It could be the way we are told about God in the first place. We are told the Bible says this or it says that so we must believe it, after all it is Godís word. We are also told that, so and so says something in such a way, that we know that we must believe it. Take EGW for example, we were told she was a prophet from God and everything she says is inspired, so here again we donít have to think for ourselves, just believe. The point is, if we let others do our thinking for us, deep down we donít feel we have to take responsibility for it because it wasnít our idea to begin with. The reason I am going on so much about this is that I see a trend starting here I have seen from the time I was young. That, of hearing nearly everyone say that what ever happened must have been Godís will, it had to be,it was in His plan. If this is so then we are nothing but robots doing someone elseís biding. And how do we know who that someone else is? It could be a wolf in sheeps clothing. We are given the ability to think and the power of choice, and when we always say, it was His will, when something happens, we are saying we never had a choice or couldnít have reasoned it out. Why then, were we given these abilities? Do you think that God would give us a useless gift? I think He would do better than that, donít you? Also when people let others do their thinking for them, you have the very real possibility of someone setting up an offshoot organization like those that came out of Australia in the ë60s, or any number of self supporting ìschoolsî that were set up to teach extreme EGWism. Someone with a magnetic personality comes along and attract those that canít or wont think for themselves. As if this were not bad enough, those that donít want the responsibility of thinking for themselves, look around for someone to give it to. How do they know if they will do right by this responsibility? They donít and never will. When we always give someone else the job of thinking for us, even God, how will we ever be able to make the right choices when we need to. We will not have any practice doing it. Think about, how can we decide if we don't know how? Got to go----George | ||
| George |
I guess this one was too hot to handle? George | ||
| Breezy |
No, I think that you just stated it so well that there isn't much else to say. I have always been an independant thinker so I don't know what it is like to just go with the crowd. I don't want to either. Great post! Wendy | ||
| George |
Thanks Wendy | ||
| Susan |
George, I'm going to try and respond to you. I hope I can make sense. It's not always easy to put what's in my head into words. Anyway, here it goes. When I say something is God's will, I don't mean that I didn't have a choice in the situation. If I really wanted to get a certain job and I did everything right but still didn't get it, then I might say it was God's will. I can't see why I didn't get it, but in a year it might be more clear. Perhaps a better job is around the corner, maybe I'm going to have to move, just maybe a crazy person will come in and shoot the person sitting where I might have been, if I'd gotten the job! We just don't know. God expects us to be sensible and make intelligent decisions. As we grow up we become more wise (hopefully!) and as we grow up in the Lord we also become more wise to His ways and His will for us. I agree with you that we shouldn't let others think for us. That becomes dangerous. Jonah is a nice example of someone who made his own choices. But, God kind-of overrided those choices in a big way!. He was free to make choices, But they weren't in line with the will of God. Since God is sovereign, and He will ultimately be glorified in all, then I can rest in the assurance that His perfect will, will prevail. Do I just sit back and let the world go by? No way! God expects us to live fruitful and productive lives for the kingdom. We are to use the gifts that He's graciously given us. Sheep are pretty dumb. But that's what we're often called in scripture. "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father..." John 10:14,15. You see, there is a mutual knowledge of each other. Like Jesus knows the Father, His sheep know Him. He calls us, and we have the choice to listen. We chose to know him, it's not forced. We might choose what area of the pasture we will play in or what other sheep to hang out with (is this getting to cute yet? !!!) But the shepherd has the ultimate hand over us. He sees to it that we're fed, sheltered and protected from evil. He sees to it that we stay in His pasture. Remember, Jesus is continuously praying for his sheep in heaven (I think this is such an awesome contrast to what SDA's claim He's doing up there, see Heb.7:25!) George, you said, "how can we decide if we don't know how?". We know we can make decissions because Christ lives in us. The Holy Spirit will guide us in all things. Even decissions. We will never be without the Spirit, so we don't have to worry. I don't think it's a matter of giving God the right to make all of our decissions, but rather opening up to the Holy Spirit leading us in all things. I don't know about you, but when I'm facing something difficult I don't want to totally rely on my own thinking. I want the help of the Lord! Hope I've made a little sense. As always, I've enjoyed your thought provoking comments! Listening to my Shepherd! Susan | ||
| George |
Hi Susan, What a wonderful responce to my letter. You are the first person to understand what I have been trying to say and not just fall back on pat answers. From your answer I see the whole subject in a very different and peacefull light. Thanks very much. George | ||
| Sally |
Hi, I wanted to comment on the ideas presented about thinking for oneself and making decisions. I believe that Ellen Whites writings, esp. the testimonies to the church. Greatly discourage thinking for oneself. She uses threats toward those who don't agree. I've read them. Ideas such as the frown of God, threats of the judgement is a favorite. She "counseled" people about almost every imaginable area of their lives.Where to live, what to eat and how in great detail. Who to marry,when to marry,what to study,what books to read or not read(including harmles books such as Robinson Crusoe,and Uncle Toms Cabin Vol.5P.516). what recreation was acceptable and what was an absolute No No. When to have personal devotions, how to discipline and train children, setting herself up as an example. How to dress even down to the details of material and colors and patterns!!Couseling people on ones sex life and the harm it causes must not have brought a lot of harmony into adventist homes!! She often threatened people about the loss of their salvation and critized unmercilessly. Yes theres lots of supposedly good stuff too. But this claiming it was from God and threatening them about their salvation was a manipulative tool for mind control and for those who become convinced a loss of their God given independence. This pattern of judgement and condemnation was apart of her and the pioneers religious outlook from the very start. See Early Writings and notice the pattern. First people were condemned for not accepting Christs coming in 1843, then they become "Babylon" for not accepting His coming in 1844. Then there's the development of the IJ and sanctuary teaching and the Sabbath and we have people being condemned for not accepting them. She took a position that is clearly not scriptural from the very start. This is not something that the GC thought up. See E.W.P232 and inward "I saw that God was in the proclamation of the TIME in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the TRUTH." People objected to this preaching of a definite time for Christs' second coming. This was not a scriptual position. Therefore she is not a true prophet. The seventh Day Adventist teachings are devisive and the claim of a prophet is harmful I am finally free of her influence and I praise God for my freedom. I'm sorry for those who continue to be duped by her. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.1Jn.4:1 Blessings, A Visitor | ||
| Breezy |
Sally, It is true that the GC didn't come up with this stuff, but they sure did jump on board and propigate it. They haven't spoken out against it either. You are very correct in your evaluation of her. Luckily more and more people are coming to realize that they do not need Ellen to be saved. And if some choose to still listen to some of what she taught, at least they can have an eye-opening perspective of her. It's very discouraging to always hold your life up in comparison to a dead woman's criticism. Thanks for your post! Wendy | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Sally, You don't post very often, but when you do it's a whopper! Keep on posting;-)) Maryann |
