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Steve
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good work Cindy.

It doesn't take a whole lot of leaven to make a loaf. Those "indescretions" in the writings of EGW are kind of like the "indescretions" she warned others of in other areas of their lives.

Apparently she did not apply the same criteria to herself.

[I just received the daily devotional from the White Estate. Apparently they even feel that she was not as clear as she could have been. A phrase relating to Christ as being a transgressor on the cross had to be clarified for us so we wouldn't get any ideas that He was actually a sinner, something that could be understood in the way EGW had written.]

It appeared that she always had so much to reveal but always held back. The apostles never held back. The reformers never held back (I'm assuming). What was she holding on to that she didn't want to share?

Steve
Breezy
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy,
I agree that Ellen should not imply that to question her testimonies is to question God Himself. I fully accept that she made very human mistakes, and to think that she is an infallible rule of scripture is by far one of the greatest errors to be made. She was at the time of this meeting experiencing further christian growth herself. I think a common mistake people make is implying that as soon as Ellen began her ministry, she had completed her walk with God. She indicated that herself. I don't see it as doublespeak, I see it as transitional. I'm sorry but I do believe her writings have value to a christian. Just not all of them, and as long as you keep her role in proper perspective. I do not feel she was an evil woman, just misguided. I also do not believe that by infidel books she meant all other books besides hers. I think she meant rather things like the chinese Tao or other things that are not christian. It is a mistake for Adventists to teach otherwise. Wrong to forbid their children to read other materials. She clearly said materials that were anti-christian.

People tend to be extra hard on Ellen because of how much she has been crammed down all of our throats. But just as many other people have made similar mistakes and we are not as hard on them. I think the church is to blame wholly for the misrepresentation of Ellen. They have used her and warped her writings in order to propigate their own agenda. They are a corrupt machine that both the Bible and Ellen warned against. She warned repeatedly of the heirarchal system. Read Des Ford's site www.goodnewsunlimited.org and see what he thinks. I see him as having a very balanced perspective. Boy did he get a bad rap in the church. Read the story sometime.

Cindy, are you a nurse or something. Your posts are always so early. When I was a CNA our shifts started at 6 or 6:30am. I wish I could get to bed earlier so that I could get up early like that. I just can't break the cycle of staying on the computer until 1 or2 am. Am going to try very hard to be good tonight.

God bless you all,
Wendy
Patti
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy and Steve,
You will never know what a blessing I receive from your words.
Wendy,
You are very bright and have come a very long way. Steve is right. This is not merely a matter of semantics. The "nitpicky" differences we have with the RBF message touted by the SDA church was the catalyst for the entire Protestant Reformation. The big question is: Are we saved by the doing and dying of Jesus Christ ALONE, or do we have to add to this work in order to secure our salvation? I truly believe that there are only 2 types of religions in the world: True Christianity, and those that require humans to save themselves--or at least to contribute to it. Unfortunately, a great percentage of Christendom also falls under the second category. True Christianity is a dependence upon the saving work of Jesus Christ ALONE. And it makes all the difference in the world.

Cindy and Steve,
Did either of you look up this website? It claims to have the original writings of the views of Jones and Waggoner.
http://gospel-herald.com/index.htm

TTYL!

Patti
Colleentinker
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to comment about the righteousness by faith "movement", or the 1888 movement. I have relatives who have completely embraced the "1888 Message", as they call it. It really does use orthodox-sounding words, but its meaning is not orthodox!

I just did a search using MacBible and confirmed what I suspected: the term "righteousness by faith" is never used in the Bible. The term that is used frequently throughout the NT is "righteousness that is by faith" or "righteousness that comes by faith". Phil. 3:9 say righteousness comes from God and is by faith.

Romans 3:21-22 says that now there is a righteousness that comes apart from the law and is from God. Romans 4:3 says Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.

I realize that the difference between "righteousness by faith" and "righteousness which is by faith" might sound like splitting hairs, but when you hear and read "1888 Message" proponents, you realize that the difference is vast.

I have read literature from my 1888-believing relatives, and we've had ongoing talks about this subject for literally years. Here's what the 1888 Message teaches: The Holy Spirit in us literally helps us keep the 10 Commandments. We have faith to believe that Jesus died for us and that He will sanctify us with his indwelling Spirit, and because we have this faith to which we keep clinging, the Holy Spirit begins to make us keep the Commandments.

In other words, we gradually become righteous through the power of the Holy Spirit because we have faith in Him. When we understand that we are sinful, Wieland teaches, we realize that our sin is so desperate that our unconcsious desire is to kill God. He also says that Jesus allowed us to kill him to prove to us how debased and sinful we really are; we killed God.

Once we realize, he says, how wretched and impossibly sinful we are that we would kill God if we could, then we can accept Christ's death and by faith in Him begin to become righteous.

It's hard to define the subtle heresy here: the RBF or 1888 Movement essentially teaches that we become righteous because of our faith in God and the Holy Spirit working in us.

The Biblical teaching of righteousness which comes from God and is by faith teaches that our righteousness before God is 100% the work of Christ. God counts us righteous because we believe in him. He doesn't make us keep the commandments and thus become righteous in response to our faith.

RBF teaches that we become literally and gradually perfectórighteous and commandment-keepingóbecause of our faith in Jesus.

The Bible teaches that when we believe in Jesus, God counts our belief (faithósame word in the Greek) as righteousness. The Biblical righteousness that is by faith has nothing to do with our slow perfection and commandment-keeping. Rather, our faith in our Savior is what God counts as our righteousness.

Righteousness by faith (apparently an Adventist term) is the opposite; it's a subtle and deceptive heresy.

By the way, I personally have a hard time considering EGW to be good, spiritual reading for anyone when her writings are so inconsistent. James cautioned in James 1:7 about being "double-minded". God has given his people many teachers and writers throughout the centuries who are consistent and Godly, including some of those she quoted.

I must admit, however, that for many years I saw Ellen as a problem mostly because of how people misused her. It took me a long time to actually admit to myself that her problems were more serious than just her opportunisitc adherents misusing her.

Wendy, I want you to know how much I enjoy your posts and your honesty. I hope you don't hear me as being critical or disapproving of you!

Praising God for truth and for His righteousness,
Colleen
Maryann
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Colleen,

You said:

"I just did a search using MacBible and confirmed what I suspected: the term "righteousness by faith" is never used in the Bible. The term that is used frequently throughout the NT is "righteousness that is by faith" or "righteousness that comes by faith". Phil. 3:9 say righteousness comes from God and is by faith."

That was rather profound! Actually, there is more than "hair splitting" difference when one stops and listens to what is REALLY said.

Thank you for bringing that one out, to the eyes of at least this near blind person!

BTW, check your e-mail;-))

Maryann
Breezy
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

No such thought has ever crossed my mind. I love all of you, even if I don't agree with everything you believe.

Luther wrote later in his life that he was amazed and disturbed that people were using his writings to justify departing from the law. I do not understand why it is so hard to reconcile that although Christ does all the work for us, there is a natural change in our actions. Therefore the keeping of the law. It is not something that we have to actively think about, it just becomes our nature. Therefore we do gradually achieve a more perfected character as the Holy Spirit guides us. I do not believe that in our present characters, even if saved, we will be in heaven. I believe whole heartedly that we will be closer to Christ's character by the time He comes than we had been any other time in our lives. This will depend on how long the person has walked with God. Our christian walk is not stagnant and does not remain the same. If it does there is something wrong! We are to be continually growing in Christ as we are told I believe by Paul. Some are spiritually young and can only consume milk, and some are spiritually mature and can consume milk and are to forgo the milk.

The difference in the keeping of the laws of God, which remain constant and never change, is the keeping them out of fear or keeping them out of love.

I kept my Sabbath's a month ago because I was afraid I would not be saved. Today I keep them as a joyful example to my Lord and Saviour that I appreciate more than I can express what He has done for me. Yes I do that every day. But every other day something manages to take up my time and does not allow me to concentrate wholly on my saviour. By setting aside my Sabbath, I make sure my whole day is for Him. I couldn't very well do that every day and still support my family. The laws of God are not hard to follow because the Holy Spirit in my heart make it a joy to keep them. That is what Paul warned against, not keeping the law, but rather making the mistake of assuming the law saves us. He said we uphold the law not dispense with it.

Righteousness by Faith by the way is Luther's term not an Adventist term.

Glad you still love me!
Wendy
Colleentinker
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right, of course, Wendy! How could I have not thought about Luther?! Adventists, though, mean something quite different from Luther when they say Righteousness by Faith.

Once we accept Jesus, he gives us a living soul. We become connected to him forever with the Holy Spirit. Once the Holy Spirit is in us, we do change. The fallacy I see in Adventist teaching is that the Holy Spirit begins helping us keep the law. Romans and Galatians and Hebrews are quite clear that living by the Holy Spirit is not living by the law.

Yes, we uphold the law. We uphold it because it is necessary to point out our need of grace and a Savior. It is necessary in order for us to clearly see that sin leads to deathóand for us to understand that Jesus fulfilled the law and died our death. Without the whole phenomenon of the Law and the people of Israel, we would not have clearly understood why we needed a Savior. We had to know we couldn't keep that law.

The reality is that Jesus literally replaced the law. Galatians 3:15-23 clearly says that the Law came 430 years after Abraham UNTIL THE SEED. Jesus was the end of the law. Galatians 4 says to throw out the bondwoman, Hagar, the Old Covenant.

The law isn't needed anymore. The Holy Spirit is 'way bigger than the law, and more personal and more spsecific. Living by the Holy Spirit does not result in us keeping the Lawóit results in us becoming Christlike. Literally Christ in us lives his righteousness out through us.

Our sinful flesh cannot become sinless. Our spirits/souls become aliveóthat is sin dying in us. But our sinful flesh will be something we battle for the rest of our lives. Yes, our lives become increasingly Christ-like, but this miracle is not our sinfulness becoming good; it's Jesus becoming ever more the center of our consciousness, unconsciouness, and spiritual life.

Yes, we change. No, this change is not us becoming law-keepers. This change is the Living Lord having his way in us.

It's really hard to explain the distinction I'm trying to explain. The Adventist idea of righteousness by faith is that our sinful selves will gradually become law-abiding as we trust the Holy Spirit.

The New Testament idea is that our sinful flesh will not be redeemed until the resurrection. Our souls become redeemed when we accept Jesus. Our lives will actually begin to reflect Jesusóliterally and reallyónot just reflect Jesus making us good or law-abiding.

The changes in the life of a Christ-follower are realóbut they have absolutely nothing to do with us becoming better. They are entirely the miracle of Jesus living in us.

It is not a person becoming Godly that we see when a Christ-follower begins to change from the way he was before being born again. It is quite literally Jesus we see when a Christ-follower becomes loving and less self-centered. This miracle happens as we submit to the Holy Spirit. But this miracle has nothing to do with the law.

Hebrews says that where there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law. Jesus was not a Levitical priest. He was from the tribe of Judah. The law was no longer the Levitical lawóincluding the 10 Commandments. The change in the law was that God himselfóthe Living Lawónow resides in each Christ-follower instead of a tablet of stone residing in the tabernacle.

In His love,
Colleen
Breezy
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

But as we become more Christ-like we do keep the laws, even if they are unwritten. Only on our hearts. The mosaic laws were only a written reflection of the greater truth of God's laws. They were required before the Seed came because we needed to have sin pointed out to us. We do not require the written laws anymore because the enhanced meaning of the laws are written on our hearts, but they are laws nevertheless. Just as God created the physical laws of the universe, and they have existed and will exist for all time,even before being written down by man's hand. I really can appreciate that there is a difference that you are trying to convey that perhaps not all adventist or even christians understand. I think though that the fault lies with the heirarchal structure of the governmental entity, the heart of which is the GC. Not the Adventist faith itself. The GC is bound and determined to suppress the truth of the gospel because it is contrary to their purpose. BUT! God is at work and is stronger,far stronger, than the Adventist GC, the Catholic See, or any other movement that tries to suppress the great truth of the gospel. Time is short on this earth and God in His infinite wisdom has a plan that will come to fruition of its own accord with or without the Adventist Church as a whole. There is a huge movement all over to bring to light the gospel truth, and it will spread like wildfire and God's work will be complete. Then after taking part in the new wine we will all rejoice as we sit down to take part in the marriage supper with the Lamb.

Oh I am hungry for that!
Christ with you all,
Wendy
Loneviking
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy,
D. Canright remained a Christian all of his life. He was an elder in a Baptist church until his death. I wish I could remember the web site where I found this but it escapes me now. I'll keep looking though..................
Patti
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great stuff, Colleen!
Thanks!

Actually, Wendy, the battle-cry of the Reformation was justification by faith ALONE. Even the RCs believe in justification by faith, but they (and SDAs) inevitably add our works or our regeneration to the righteousness of Jesus Christ which justifies those who believe in Him. It is yet another SDA myth that the Catholic church teaches righteousness by works. They teach almost exactly what I am reading about Jones and Waggoner: That we are justified by faith in Jesus which is only the beginning of salvation. The work of the Holy Spirit IN us is as important as the work of Jesus Christ FOR us. The result: It keeps the believer focused upon himself.

ALL of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. This includes the work of the Holy Spirit in us. We are contaminated vessels, and nothing coming through us can help but be permeated with sin. That is why our only hope, our faith, our trust is stayed on the spotless Lamb of God. He is worthy; therefore, God accepts us as we trust in Him.

Grace and peace,
Patti
Cindy
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 6:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy, Hi! As to my early posts...they're not that early; it's just that I'm on the East Coast and the posts are always listed at California time!, no matter when I post...

As far as EGW and the church being wholly to blame for the misreprsentation of her, I respectfully disagree. She herself said her writings were to be taken as from GOD.

This is the BIG difference I see when comparing her to other Christian writers!! I do not see them saying their writings are given them by God, in visions by handsome angel guides...

And, to me, the CONSISTENCY of the message of grace is more evident in other writers, even of her own time period.

She's either telling the truth about getting these messages from God--and we better embrace ALL of them... or she's lying, even though this may be a self-delusion on her part. I honestly can't see it any other way...

As far as EGW's statements not to even "touch an infidel book"...I feel it may be wise to read 'anti-christian' books to analyze for OURSELVES if what we believe continues to make sense when confronted with various objections to the Christian faith.

It is good to know the beliefs of Hindu's, Mormons, Buddhists, Muslims, etc....even atheistic views... to converse with people and to not appear to be close-minded about even considering their beliefs as valid. I admit I haven't studied much into other belief systems. I would like to study more about Hinduism, since I have many Hindu Indian neighbors where I've moved recently.

I think the Grace of Christ and the Message of the Cross is so far superior to everything; and that, with the Holy Spirit as our guide, we can be unafraid to examine objections to it.

Again, Wendy, I appreciate your kind spirit. I will try to check out Des Ford's web site you posted above. It's been years since I read any of his writings and he did have some good grace-centered stuff...

Grace always,
Cindy
Cindy
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 6:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti, Hi again! Hope your 'road trip' is going well! I will try to get to that site you mentioned above. So much to read!

Thanks always for your posts... and emphasis on Christ Alone!

Grace always,
Cindy
Cindy
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, I just read your two posts from last evening (5:42 and 7:16 p.m.) I read them through twice and want to say thank-you so much!!

I know you will think this is kind of crazy, :-)) but to me those posts were much more 'inspired' than anything I've read from Ellen White!! I am serious!!

And I know you do not claim to get these views from a vision or handsome angel guide! Or say we must have confidence in your testimonies or else we "will drift away from Bible truth"...

You put those ideas out from your own study of Scripture as you are inspired and led by the Holy Spirit--like we ALL have the privilege of being inspired and led when we believe in the Gospel of Christ's Work alone!!

Thank-you, also, for explaining more about the 1888 message... That is how I was seeing it, even though I've just looked into their views recently.

JESUS as the Fulfillment of all the Laws, Prophecies, and Promises of God--Jesus Alone... This is a wonderful reality to live by!

Praise God that He has promised to make His Home with us! And by the gift of the Holy Spirit when we believe in Jesus--this is a comforting presence to me.

May we all continue to fully REST in Christ's Finished Work Alone!!

Grace always,
Cindy
Bmorgan
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lone Viking,
You ocmmented about reading that Canright died a Baptist minister. I did too, check out this site.

Lone Viking, do you now a William Slattery?

Here is a site that gives the information about Canright.

http://www.truthorfables.com/Canright.htm

Breaking free from mind control work, and thank God He is Our Liberator.

In Christ Alone
BMorgan
Susan
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great posts everyone! I really enjoy this site.

Cindy, you've pointed out an important thing a couple of times that I just have to comment on. I'm sure we've brought it up before, but it stands out as quite significant to me. EGW had a "handsome angel guide". Does the term "guide" cause some of you to feel uneasy? Well it most certainly should! Biblical prophets did not use this means to get messages from God! In fact, God came to them with His words for the people, not the prophet calling on some "spirit guide". EGW sounds like someone involved in downright Spiritism! One of the examples of mental phenomena associated with Spiritism is speaking in a trance. When she had her so called "visions" and summoned her spirit guide, what was she doing? Isn't this exactly what mediums and spiritists do. Johanna Michaelsen in her book "The Beautiful Side of Evil", talks about having Jesus as one of her "counselors" that she calls up in her mind's laboratory. I'm sure there are many other examples too.

Perhaps I'm wrong about Ellen. But I feel so strongly that she was deceived by Satan himself. Maybe someone can show me a bible prophet, who had his visions and words from God in the same manner. I'd be happy to know.

I've said it before but it's of utmost importance! She altered the nature of Jesus by teaching that He had a sinful nature. Just this one thing qualifies her as an antichrist (see 1John). Wouldn't that be Satan's objective? If he can have people believing in the wrong Jesus, then they wouldn't have true freedom. If we were to believe Christ had a sinful nature like EGW teaches, then we would not have a perfect, unblemished lamb for a Messiah. Which is the only kind of Messiah that could atone for our sins. If you adhere to her teaching, then you change who Jesus was/is and what he accomplished.

Just my opinion.
Relying on my guide, the Holy Spirit!
Susan
Steve
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Susan,

I agree, EGW got her messges from a spirit guide, an angel. And I'm not sure I'd trust just any angel that came along.

In an Independent Baptist church in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the pastor of that church did a 7 week series on why SDAism is a cult. He spent over one entire hour on the various phenomena associated with EGW's visions, her trances and apparent feats of strength.

It convinced those who already did not believe in her, but for those of us who did (I did very much at the time) we simply pointed to Ezekiel. Ezekiel did some mighty strange things. Laying on his side for (180?) days can be seen as very strange. When Jacob wrestled with the Angel of the Lord and had his hip socket put out of joint, I would say that's mighty strange.

As much as I dislike EGW, I also have a hard time pointing to her feats as either: 1) examples of her divine appointment, or 2) examples of a satanic influence (although as I continue to be revulsed by her, that may change!)

I'm making an assumption that even those who are under the influence of evil spirits will mimic the ways in which God works with humans as well.

EGW was deceived on a number of points. I think this happened easily for her. And I think the spirit guides she had helped in that deception. I don't think they outright deceived her with obvious, blatant lies (although the shut door, IJ, and some others may qualify!) I think she was deceived in the most subtle ways, and ways that we can only judge by her theology.

I don't know if I can answer you on showing "a bible prophet, who had his visions and words from God in the same manner" but I definitely can show you a Bible prophet who's theology differed significantly from Ellens. It's the theology that makes the difference, not the phenomenon. Read Deuteronomy 13:1-10 for an example of what to do when phenomena seems to support a prophet.

I agree that the Holy Spirit should be our ONLY spirit guide.

Steve
Cindy
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, Very interesting comments. Thank-you!

And, wow, what a thought-provoking title for a book! "The Beautiful Side of Evil." I'm going to have to check that one out!

Grace always,
Cindy
Cindy
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve, I think you've got it right...that the theology is what really makes the difference, not just the phenomenon.

Things may sound very pious and spiritual, but what place is given Christ!? Is there a tendancy to "de-throne" Him by adding something else, be it meritorious works... or beliefs in 'new light' that has been shown? And this after the full light of the knowledge of God has already been shown to us in the Face of Jesus!!

If the Substitutionary, All-Sufficient Work of Christ on the Cross in our behalf--and this Finished Work of Jesus being completely an Objective Righteousness separate from our response of gratitude--is not proclaimed as Central, Absolutely Necessary,and Totally Enough for our salvation we have reason to question any other message or messenger...

Always Grace,
Cindy
Susan
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve, when was this series on Adventism and is it available on tape? It sounds really interesting. Thanks for your input! Apologetics seems to be one of your expertise. Good verses in Deut., God sure doesn't mess around with false prophets and their gods!

Cindy, the book I mentioned was so intriguing, I could hardly put it down. It's the true account of the author's past. She was an assistant to a psychic surgeon in Mexico. She asked God to reveal the true source behind the miraculous healings she saw. God lifted the veil of deception and exposed the evil behind the outward appearance of beauty and holiness. I picked it up in the spiritual warfare section of Christian books. A very good testimony of how God can save a soul that has truly been taken over by Satan himself.

I liked what you said Cindy, about adding works or new insight to try and "de-throne" Christ. That's what Satan does through the cults. By adding additional things to salvation, one de-thrones Christ and takes some of the credit for him or herself. The focus is then on "me" and what I need to do, instead of on "THE ONE" who has already done it!

In Christ alone!
Susan
Steve
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Susan,

The series on Adventism was, if I recall, in 1996 (could have been 1995). No, the series isn't on tape. It was just an Independent Baptist preacher speaking in his church. I do have a few pages of notes from those sessions, but virtually everything I own is in storage and I can't get to it now.

Apologetics has always interested me. I even attempted to start a cult apologetics ministry while I was in New Mexico, called Jude 3 Ministries. I published 4 newletters, became extremely ill for over a year, and couldn't continue. I even ended up losing a 20 year career with Intel corporation due to the illness.

But God is blessing me through all of that (and more) that I've been through in recent years. Of course, one of the amazing things is my discovery of the true nature of Adventism. I really think that Satan attacked me when he did because I was going to apply the same criteria to the SDA church that I had applied to Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and others.

But God has many, many people currently involved in unmasking Adventism (and since I'm not a theologian, these folks are much more emminently qualified for the job). And it is only going to get worse for the church unless it repents of it's ways, comes to Jesus Christ, and starts preaching the pure gospel of grace -- just like the Worldwide Church of God has done.

Although it may be a number of months to a year, when I get my library out of storage, I hope to review those notes from the series on Adventism and help folks like that Baptist minister find more effective ways to tell the truth about Adventism.

Steve

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