| Author | Message | ||
| Susan |
Grace to all! I just have to add a few thoughts here. I find it so amazing that it's always the SDA's who start controversy on this site. There are many times when us formers disagree, but it always seems to be in a spirit of Christian love. We all belong to different denominations. But yet there is a true Spirit of unity among us. Doesn't anyone else sense this too? But when SDA's (some) come on here, I really sense an argumenative spirit. Don't get me wrong, many of them have wonderful things to contribute. And I appreciate their emphasis on grace. But the defense of EGW is unbelieveable to me. Some (not all) of the SDA's tend to project a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) attitude of hostility. I for one thank God for Richard and Colleen. They have been an enormous blessing to me and many others. And while all are welcome at this site, it is for FORMER Adventists. I'm so glad that it's here. I pray that God's hand will be on all those who visit this site. I also know, that the message of Jesus Christ is going forth in a mighty way, here on this forum. As always, still clinging to the cross alone! Susan | ||
| Joni |
I praise God for This forum. I don't always respond or read but when I do, it has helped me to know that others have and are going through what I went through. After I left the SDA Church for good I had no one to talk to. My Christian friends didn't understand what I was really going through and my SDA friends didn't either. It was this forum that has helped me to continue. Now that I am sure that my decision to leave was a good one and I am secure in the LORD, this forum continues to bless me as I read and see others learning about Grace and Salvation in Jeuse Christ only. I find it amazing that the Lord teaches pretty much the same Grace to all. It might be phrased in different words but God is teaching His called out ones. Things that have melted my heart and I have learned, I read others learning also. I have a friend from another Church. They had/have a prophet also. This one said the same thing. That in the end times, his writings will be made of none effect. Is this a ploy to scare people into staying in bondage??? I have read My Bible from cover to cover each summer for the last few years because our Bible Study stops for the summer. This is where I find the the Lord. The Bible is where I gain my information on the fallacies of what false prophets write. Not by reading other peoples work. And each time I read my Bible I find more stuff that I didn't see before. I beleive one thing that EGW wrote, if we would read our Bibles we wouldn't need her writings. If you, who are on the defense, would read your Bible only, and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you, you would be blessed. There were/are many times, I have to pray, Lord, not what I think, but I want your view. Take away all my past "knowledge" and show me you, teach me how to have a relationship with you. John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent." My prayer is that we know Christ and He knows us. There will be and are many from all Churches in the Kingdom. It is your relationship with Jesus Christ that makes the difference. Not your knowledge. Another thought: Colleen, I want to thank you for the wisdom that God has given you on the way you can express in words. You have been a true blessing to me. We need more Titus 2 women. The older teaching the younger. I am not talking about age. Joni | ||
| Billthompson |
Wendy, You said that DJ was not accusing us (formers) of lying about the SDA church, he was only saying that some teachers and pastors lied to us. He does denounce these teachers and pastors but then goes on in the sentences that follow to say, quote: "...ex-SDA's go on other boards and claim loudly and repeatedly that the SDA church teaches were are saved by works and is likend (sp?) to Catholic theology. I for one am very, very sick and tired of having the church that taught me the most about the Bible and Jesus being run-down and attacked like that. When I see lies like that..." I appreciate the fact that you said you would never accuse any of us of lying about our experiences in SDAism, but DJ does clearly make such an accusation. Would we be more accurate and please current SDA if we said that 90-95% of SDA pastors and teachers do not understand and teach the truth about salvation by grace alone? Or the reverse, that perhaps 5-10% do understand and teach the true gospel message. To be totally honest, however, I'd have to add that the 5-10% number is not stable since those who teach it the strongest are often terminated from employment (Des Ford, Richard Fredricks, Clay Peck, etc.) Would this sort of aknowledgement of true gospel preaching within SDAism make current SDAs feel better or worse? I suppose you'd feel a little better that we affirmed that it does occasionally happen but take issue with how rare it is. Let me say this, if you say you are trusting in Christ alone for salvation then I have no reason whatsoever to doubt your salvation regardless of your denominational affiliation and I trust you have no reason to doubt mine. A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone, Bill Thompson | ||
| Billthompson |
Joni, You asked a good question regarding "prophets" who predict that their writings will be discredited by many in the end times. The surrounding doctrines they teach make this even more of an issue for their followers, however. Most all these "prophets" teach people not to be secure in their salvation. They paint a picture of the "end times" being a tricky time where saved people will be lost for not following God's latest revelations which will come through a modern day prophet. This combination of false teaching makes members very dependant upon their "prophet" for maintaining their salvation, rather then depending on Christ alone. They often equate leaving their prophet and his/her group to leaving God and loss of salvation. These are terrible things to put in someone's head. The Lord wants us to be secure in our salvation,1 John 5:13. He also will not allow anyone to take what is His away from Him (that includes self proclaimed modern day prophets and ourselves)John 10:28; Ephesians 1:13,14; 2 Corinthians 1:21,22. In Christ, Bill Thompson | ||
| Breezy |
Bill, Okay, you have a point. I think it does feel that way for him though because he hasn't had the same experience as you and other former sda's. I'm still in turmoil, having seen so much evidence against EGW, yet not having any desire to leave the church. I am torn up one side and down the other. One day I'm in full support of her, the next I can't stand what I've seen of her. I honestly don't know what to do. I wish I could resolve it for myself one way or the other. I still believe in the Sabbath, just not as a means of salvation or the seal of God or whatever. And SDA's are the only thing I can identify with. It is really a part of my identity. My grandma was SDA from her 20's and was very faithful to her beliefs. But I never got the impression that it was because she felt like she had to to be saved. I just can't seem to decide if I have to give up the church because of its flaws. Or do I just follow my own road regardless of what the church does. Can't I be my own kind of SDA? Is this impossible? I feel like my brain is being twisted inside out. Help. Colleen? Anyone? Would appreciate any advice. Thanks, Wendy P.S. I know I sound nuts, but I really am confused here. | ||
| Susan |
Wendy, I'm not sure I can give you the same kind of wonderful advice that Colleen or others could give, but I'd like to offer my heartfelt comments. I know sometimes I can come across a bit harsh but I sincerly care about you and I'm praying for you. God does not want you to be confused. He doesn't want you to suffer turmoil. He really will reveal truth to you. It already sounds like you are relying on the sufficiency of the cross. I think that's wonderful. I guess if I could offer any advice it would be this; keep your eyes on Jesus at all times! Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you study and for almighty God to show you what to do. You can read all the evidence in the world about EGW problems. What ultimately matters is that your focus in on Christ alone. But, I think you already know all of this! I know what it's like to come from an Adventist heritage. I'm 4th generation and it wasn't easy. When you leave it feels like you are letting your parents and others down. Freedom has it's costs. Luckily, none of my family was hostile (sadly that is sometimes the case). When we realize that our identity is only found in Jesus then other sources of identity become insignificant in comparison. When we're part of the body of Christ, we can rest in the assuance that our significance and meaning in life, come from being sons and daughters of the King! We are not responsible for how everyone in our family will feel about our decisions. We only need to follow the true Light. And we also need to bring up our children in this grace and knowledge. Anyway, I hope this helps a little. I was teary-eyed as I read your last post. I'd like to close with this beautiful verse from Eph.3:16-19 (Sometimes it's meaningful to put our own name in this verse as we read it) "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge -that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." Your sister in Christ, Susan | ||
| Sherry2 |
Dear Breezy, From my experience, I have found it helpful to just spend time reading the Word, whole books at a time, like Hebrews, Galations, Romans, and Acts, oh goodness Ephesians is awesome too....It's all great...the main thing for me is taking that time to immerse, pray outloud to Him when I was confused or getting depressed and just being honest with Him about my feelings and knowing He cares and loves me, letting Him comfort me, praising Him (a mighty weapon in spiritual warfare), and being here in fellowship online. These things are my mainstay every day. I know your confusion. Stay your eyes on Him, maybe get that Strongs Concordance out and take a topic and study text to text to text. That's been an eyeopener and blessing for me. God bless you, Sherry | ||
| Loneviking |
Wendy, I feel for you as I've been there too. You ask if you couldn't be your own kind of Adventist, and the answer is probably not. SDA'ism is a culture/lifestyle/theology all wrapped into one package. When you let go of EGW, you are already well on your way out. The next thing you will discover is that the theology is grounded in an erroneous idea of the New Covenant. SDA's do NOT truly believe in a New Covenant that is really new. And once you get to this point, well, you are a certified heretic and good luck finding someone to worship with. I know it's scary to even think about leaving the SDA church. It's scary to go to an unknown church--especially a Sunday keeping church. See if one of your co-workers is going to a church in the area. Odds are they will willingly invite you along. Study and find out what some of the other churches (Baptist/Pentecostal/Churches of Christ--etc) believe and what you can go along with. A good site that I like for Bible Study is Chuck Swindolls site (he is head of Dallas Theological and has pastored an Evangelical Free church in Fullerton). The address is: www.insightforliving.org If you have RealPlayer you can listen to the actual radio broadcasts day by day. I think the biggest thing you are going to have to get through is a fear of other Christians and the fear that you are headed for hell if you leave the SDA church. It takes time to get through this, so go slow. We are here to help.......... | ||
| Breezy |
Dear Lone(not love:))Viking, I agree with the New Covenant theology up to the point where it dispenses with the law. I also do not see it necessary to give up my Sabbath. Jesus kept the Sabbath also, just not in a legalistic manner. I've seen both sides of this issue many times,many ways and I do not believe that the Sabbath should go. Just the way most Adventists keep it, as a duty. So, that part being decided, the only real issue is whether or not I can be SDA knowing what I know, or go to another Sabbatarian church. I have no problem with going to church on Sunday. But I do not want to be with people who will slam my Sabbath. It is not anyone's place to criticize what day someone keeps. So I just get this feeling that no matter where I go, Sabbath church or Sunday, I will be very devoid of human companionship. Thankfully, Jesus will always be my companion. That's what keeps me going. Susan, thank you for your encouragement. I shed alot of tears during that post. And then it didn't help to read Morgan's post about her baby right after that. I spent alot of time crying this afternoon. Sherry, thank you I think that will help. God bless you. Love, Wendy | ||
| Steve |
Hi Wendy, You say: "I have no problem with going to church on Sunday. But I do not want to be with people who will slam my Sabbath." You may be surprised, but folks in Sunday churches are generally unaware of Sabbath issues. I find that they not only don't understand the Sabbath, but they also don't slam it. I don't seem to be running into many (any?) so-called "Sunday keepers" in the couple of Sunday churches I've visited in recent weeks. Many of us Formers aren't anti-Sabbath. However we are making very strong attempts to understand the purpose of the Sabbath and put it in it's proper place. I can see how that comes across as slamming the Sabbath. I don't think that you'll be devoid of human companionship. I know that it can seem extremely lonely when going through these kind of changes. I seem to be losing almost all of my immediate family relationships and relationships with my in-laws. But God is filling that void with Himself, and with other Christians that I've met over the last several months. You may feel devoid at this time, but I don't believe God will leave you alone. He is a God of companionship. As you say, Jesus will always be your companion. And I believe that He accomplishes that through other Christians as well as directly through the Holy Spirit. God Bless you PS -- Did you get the info about the free internet services? | ||
| Colleentinker |
Dear Wendy, My heart really goes out to you. I know so well the feelings you are having. Your mentioning your grandmother sparked a responding chord in me. My mother's mother became an Adventist in Romania when she was 15 years old, before WWI. Her entire family was Eastern Orthodox, but a friend of her sister's had somehow become Adventist along with her family, and she invited my g'ma and her sis to meet at their home church. In the mid 'teens of this century, Adventists were scarce in that part of Europe. My grandmother and her sis both converted to Adventism because the Adventist chuch gave her the Bible. The Orthodox church did not allow its members to read the Bible, and my g'ma could not understand that prohibition. My g'ma was persecuted by her family for becoming SDA. Her father actually sent her to the army to dig ditches for three months as punishment. The girls involved in ditch digging all slept in barns at night, and they were routinely raped by the soldiers. My grandma was spared that, and she always believed God held his hand over her. When she returned home one of her angry brothers turned on her with a pair of scisssors. He was about to put out her eyes when my great-g'ma entered the room and put her body between her son and daughter. Her family scornfully called her and sis "Jews". G'ma's sis contracted tuberculosis and died within about five years of their conversion, and life became nearly intolerable for my g'ma. Her SDA pastor told her he had received a letter from a young Romanian man who had emigrated to Canada and had become SDA. He was wanting an Adventist wife. My G'ma answered the ad and went to Canada. That young man became my grandpa. They had six children and raised my G'pa's nieces and nephew who were about 8, 12, and 14 when my grandparents married. They raised their children Adventist. The family's life was hard and traumatic. My grandpa, while honest and well-intentioned, had been driven from his home at the age of 13, and he was prone to violence. It was not a happy marriage, but my grandmother always loved Jesus. "I was converted to Jesus Christ, not to Ellen White," she often told her children, including my mother. During the years I was struggling with Adventism, I often thought of my grandmother, and I realized that God had brought her to the church in order to help her find Jesus. How can I leave a church, I wondered, which had been life itself to my grandmother? I finally realized that God never brings us to a certain spot and then considers us to have arrived. He brought my grandmother out of a church which forbade it members to read the Bible, and He gave her the Bible and the certainty of a Savior. Two generation later, he brought me, her granddaughter, to an even fuller understanding of his grace. There is a much freer and more liberating, more secure way to worship him than had been available to my grandmother. I finally realized, after praying about it a lot and actually writing my grandmother's story for myself as a means of understanding it, that God has never stopped leading usómy grandma, my mom (and dad who have been going to church with us for a year), and now me ever closer to himself and to Truth. I'm not forsaking God or truth; I'm walking toward it, exactly as my grandma did. And do you want to know what my grandma said just before she died? Remember, she was a loyal Adventist all her life from the age of 15. She said, "I'm going to go and be with Daddy." (Daddy was her name for Grandpa.) Wendy, one of my biggest surprises was actually going into a just plain Christian church and discovering that there was fellowship there unlike anything I'd ever experienced in an Adventist churchóand I loved the Adventist church. When people have the Holy Spirit in them and know it, there is true fellowship and support and warmth. You know how we on this forum sometimes disagree with each other and even flare up once in a while, but we support each other and pray for each other and apologize when we need to, and we love each other? You know how we can actually feel the love from each other even though we're in cyberspace? That is what happens in a true Christian church. I have never met anyone who slammed the Sabbath, and we as former Adventists have no business attacking anyone for the day they keep. The Bible is clear that the issue of a day is entirely between God and each person, and true Christians respect that freedom of each person to choose. I have never been more moved or blessed than to worhsip in a church where, even though I didn't know anybody (at first), I felt at home. All around me were people worshiping God, crying when they sang or took communion, and welcoming me with smiles and genuine warmth. You are facing a crisis of identity. I know that I felt like I was losing myselfóeverything I had ever known, done, loved, or worked for. I could never have imagined the unexplainable joy I experienced when I was finally able to lay that identity before God and trust him to be my only identity. When Jesus gives you your identity, he gives you back yourselfóand he gives you a spiritual home. You live and move and have your being in him, and he provides all your needs. Jesus asks us to trust him. And it's trueóhe restores the years the locusts ate. He does not leave you in limbo! You are in my prayers, dear Wendy. And thank you for your wonderful support and insight, Susan, Sherry, and Bill. With love, Colleen | ||
| Sherry2 |
Breezy, here are some Sabbatarian sites that may help you find a Sabbath-keeping church in your area, that were very helpful to me. You'll have to cut and paste them to your web browser. Here is the Global Sabbath Network: http://www.sabbath.com/index.html http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/7church.jpg] http://www.cog7.org/homepage.shtml http://mem.tcon.net/users/5018/2365/default.htm http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute.htm Here's a site with some more stories from formers too:http://www.sabbath.com/sdanon/index.html Hope these sites will help you find a Sabbath-keeping body near you. Sincerely, Sherry | ||
| Loneviking |
Wendy--- See what I mean about the fear of other Christians? You are afraid that they will slam your Sabbath keeping. My experience is much like Colleens--I don't think you are going to have anyone dump on you because of it. Rest on Saturday if you want---then worship Sunday morning. There are so many wonderful Christians out there---try a Seventh Day Baptist, or if you want a Sunday keeping church that would probably seem comfortable try an Evangelical Free church. I also don't believe that the New Covenant requires one to give up the Sabbath. Instead, the NewCovenant makes the whole thing a non-issue because our rest is not found in a specific day but a specific condition of resting from our work of trying to save ourselves. Read carefully the last part of Hebrews 3 and the first part of Hebrews 4. I would also challenge you to go back to the O.T. and study what was the Old Covenant. SDA's teach that it was everything but the Ten Commandments. But if you read what's written, it turns out that the tables of stone had the Ten Commandments AND the rest of the laws on them as well. If the Old Covenant was done away with--then the Ten are gone as well. IN the Church of Christ they acknowledge this and believe that the Ten were restated as broad, moral principles covering much more than the orginals of the Old Covenant. Wendy, I agree with Colleen that you are suffering a crisis of identity. Being SDA defines not just your beliefs, but your diet; dress; often occupation---and when those are lost, what are you? I call myself a 'generic Christian'----how about you? :) | ||
| Joni |
Dear Wendy, I also cried when I read your post. I went through the pain of leaving all over again. That is what this forum is for. Most everyone has felt the confussion, and brain twisting pain. I was in that state for over a year. Susan, Sherry, Steve, Colleen, and Loneviking have given you wisdom from their heart. They too have suffered the pain you are going through. Praise God, they are able to know what you are going through. Paul and Peter suffered for the Gospel. "This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgement so that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering." 2Thes.1:5 "You also became imitators of us and of the Lord Having received the word in much tribulation with the joy of the Holy Spirit" 1Thes 1:6 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves; we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not desparing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh" 2 Cor. 7-11 Perplexed = not knowing which way to go Not despairing = to think there is no way to go There is always a way to be faithful to God. He never abondons us. He helps us find the way. Cling to Him and His Word. "For just as the suffering of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ." 2 Cor. 1:5 I hope you don't mind the Bible verses but they have given me so much hope. "And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it." 1Cor. 12:26 Our spirits are with yours Wendy Joni | ||
| Joni |
Bill Thank you for your reply. I guess this is not unique with Sdaism, as far as the prophets saying that people will make of no effect the message. It almost makes me not want to trust anyone who says they are a prophet. Some people think that prophets are not necessarey for today. What do you think? Joni | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, At a quick glance, I gleaned a thought. Some of you are still convicted about worshipping on the Sabbath. That is fine. But you have grown so much in that you seem to have been able to leave the IJ/3Angels Message etc. behind! That is an awesome testimony to where your study had lead you. I've asked my mom why she needs to continue hanging on to the SDA Church when there are SD Baptist etc around that worship on the Sabbath. She tells me that the are NOT preaching the 3 Angels message or the IJ! They do NOT focus on Revelation and the time of trouble. You know there is a special blessing for those that teach that! Funny thing, I thought there was a special blessing for believing in the finished work of Christ. I also figure that going to heaven was a special blessing! Grrrrrrrr;-)) Mom will get to meet the FAF bunch next weekend! I suppose a few special prayers are in order to protect us from vaporizing when we hit the "wall of truth"! Onward and upward......Maryann | ||
| Breezy |
Hi everyone, I just don't even know what to say. Your support is overwhelming. I want to thank you all for you empathy and loving kindness. The last couple of days(daze)I've just been sitting here reading and I'm spending all my energy it seems fighting off a depression. As you know, the weeks leading up to this point have been very stressful with my husbands court case,etc. and emotionally I just don't know how to cope with this spiritual crisis right now. I'm numb and frozen. I am hoping that resting for a few days will allow me the space to get a new perspective on things. I know what to do,just can't quite do it yet. Can't even get the gumption to pick up my Bible so the verses do help. I feel like you guys are my lifeline and one of the means Jesus is using to keep me focused and not just forget the whole thing. Steve, yes thank you very much. Thank you all for being there! Wendy | ||
| Max |
Hi Tony, I believe you are sincere and that most of your post is scriptural. However, I have a serious question. You wrote: ^^ The judgement is a checking of your life and works ... to ascertain the genuineness of your faith. ... The "IJ" is not for the lost but for the saved only. ... to verify that your faith is genuine and sincere. When it's true faith, it then passes the test. And if you have accepted Jesus into your heart and allow Him to guide your life, you do not need to fear the "IJ". This ... is in fact "Good News" because when you truly have Jesus in your life as your Saviour and controlling your life, then your life and works will pass the test of sincere faith. ^^ Question: What's my problem with the above quote from your post? Answer: There's not a single shred of Scripture to base it on. The Bible knows nothing at all of any pre-Advent investigative judgment. So there is no need to try to create, to justify or to make apologies for one. If you trust the Bible and the Bible only, then you are forced to admit that the only pre-advent judgment is the cross, the only judge is Christ Jesus, the only basis for judgment is the gospel, and the only verdict on those who believe is: You are saved, sanctified, made holy, and accepted as perfect by the blood shed on the cross alone. Period. End of judgment. And if anyone adds to this statement of judgment -- as, for example, Ellen White does in Great Controversy -- that person is guilty of adding to the gospel and as such comes under the curse at the end of the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Note also that the assertion, ^^ The "IJ" is not for the lost but for the saved only, ^^ is totally unscriptural as well. The judgment of the cross is, to the contrary, FOR SINNERS ONLY! (Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.") The idea of God judging "the saved" in the manner implied by any so-called pre-Advent investigative judgment is anti-gospel, for at least two reasons: 1. It focuses on the so-called "saved" person instead of on Christ. This is a fatal error and a damning delusion. 2. It also constitutes an attack on the gospel in the following respect: God already knows the believer's heart and thus has no need to judge him/her in any other way than SAVED by the blood of Christ (alone) shed on the cross (alone) two thousand years ago (not beginning in 1844 or at any other time in the history of the universe). Scripture permits NO substitutions, whether from the pen of Ellen G. White or not. Finally, I have the biggest problem with the assertion that the pre-Adventi investigative judgment ^^ is in fact "Good News" because when you truly have Jesus in your life as your Saviour and controlling your life, then your life and works will pass the test of sincere faith. ^^ My response: If there is no judgment between the cross and the second coming, then there is NO judgment to mis-label "Good News." What you are talking about can only be a bogus, utterly worthless form of grace! There is only ONE "Good News," only ONE gospel and only one form of grace, that which resides in the cross of Christ Jesus and that ALONE. Therefore NOTHING else can obtain. Certainly no putitive "IJ" can claim that most precious of all titles! My friend, it ALL happened over a space of three days two thousand years ago! Thus does the gospel destroy the "IJ" and in the process blow a gaping hole in the hull of the SDA doctrinal ship! Praise God in Christ Jesus from whom ALL blessings flow that it does! Under real grace alone, Max=Jude | ||
| Billthompson |
Joni, Good question, "Are prophets necessary for today?" The prophetic writings we now refer to as the Bible certainly seem important. They contain everything we need to be saved. The key, in my mind is to have a FIRM assurance of one's own salvation based on the Bible alone. Once one has this firm assurance you usually are so excited that you want others to share this same joy and you naturally use the same source that gave you this joyful assurance, the Bible. Contrast this with those who have no assurance, believe they are very vulneralble to losing their salvation and have little if any hope where eternity is concerned. This type of person is easily drawn to a person claiming to have answers, answers directly from God. I am so confident in the security of my salvation, not because of anything I have done but because of what the Bible tells me Jesus has done for me, that I have no interest in a modern day prophet. What can he or she give me or show me which could even come close to what Jesus has done for me and sealed for all eternity with by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13,14; 2 Corinthians 1:21,22). In addition to that, I know from what the Bible teaches, that the plan of salvation is not going to change in the "last days". Inspite of what we may have been taught the Gospel is still the same until Christ comes again (Galatians 1:6-8), there are no last minute "tests" to seal or damn believers, thus I do not need some David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc. to give me additional information for the "last days". In Christian Love, Bill Thompson | ||
| Billthompson |
Wendy, I can certainly understand what you are going through. It took me six years to leave the SDA chruch and the Sabbath kept me there longer than I would have otherwise stayed. I totally agree with what other have said above. I have been out of the SDA church for 21 years now and the sabbath is a non-issue in all the churches I've been in. There has been a Romans 14:5 attitude where I have fellowshiped. During the last 2 years of my transition out of the SDA church, while I was attending the SDA on Saturday and the Baptist church on Sunday I tried unsuccessfully to make the sabbath an issue with new friends from the Baptist church. They were so kind, patient and a little amused (in a very kind sort of way) that this was such a big issue for me. They would usually turn the discussion back to the basics of the Gospel, trying to be sure I understood salvation by grace and not works. I could only compare it to you running into a woman visiting your church and pulling women aside and asking "Why don't the women have their heads covered in church, they seem like sincere Christians, but no head coverings, why what is wrong with these people?". You'd propbably have a slight question mark on your face and say, "well, if you feel you need your head covered in church then by all means do so but we do not share that same conviction, we certainly do not see it as a salvation issue and we want you to continue coming here and sharing your ideas, we'll share ours...want to have lunch at my house this afternoon?" In other words, this (sabbath) is not an issue that other Christians focus on to any degree at all. They may be vaguely aware that it is an issue for some (the same as you may know that some women see the need for a head covering and have a text to back it up) but it is not for them. There will most likely ONLY be conflict if you initiate it and even then you'll find little interest in debating the sabbath. Another great option for a SDA is to attend one of the interdenominational Bible studies. "Bible Study Fellowship (BSF)" is one I have attended for years. There are usally about 16 to 18 different denominations represented at these weekly meetings. They meet in all men's groups or all women's groups (originally they were just for women) and study the Bible alone. No commentaries allowed. No quoting your own pastors. They really don't like you to bring up which denomination you are part of during study. In the hallways though and at fellowships people will sometimes mention the name of their church. I have met SDAs at this Bible study. "Precepts" is a similar interdenominational study. These groups meet during the week so as not to interfer with your own church services. This is a great way to study and fellowship with believers with no attention to your differences. I remember in one of these men's groups we didn't have a pianist, about 300 men were singing without instruments...the sound was hard to discribe...the atmosphere overwhelming...no denominational boundries...once I wiped the tears from my own eyes I saw many other men doing the same...awesome...a small foretaste of heaven. These groups meet thoughout the US and in many other countries. My men's group meets on Monday nights. My wife's ladies group on Tuesday mornings. BSF follows a school year calender, same breaks, etc. This fall they will begin studying the book of Matthew for the whole year (9 month academic year). Last year was the book of Romans for the whole year. Bill Thompson |
