| Author | Message | ||
| Breezy |
Sherry2, Do you feel that just because someone doesn't agree with your stand on egw, they must not know Jesus as their saviour? Is that why you presume to ask him if he knows Jesus? So therefore, if someone argues a different point than your position, they have an argumentative spirit and must not know Jesus. Just curious, Wendy | ||
| Sherry2 |
Breezy,"These things are good and profitable to men. But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." Titus 3 Is it the spirit of Christ we should come to talk of things, or not? If spirit of bitterness or argumentativeness, we have forgotten from whence we came, and need to go back to Jesus Christ and the Cross. I have to on a regular basis. And maybe we don't know Him honestly. Wendy, I don't know about you, but the more I look at Him, the more love I have in my own heart, the more carefully I want to guard my own words. I want to be more like Him who died for me. If someone comes with a constant spirit of argumentativeness (not just disagreeing and discussing levelheadely), then I do wonder if they really KNOW Jesus or if it is just head knowledge and that is all. I have found the most AWESOME NEWS in the WHOLE UNIVERSE! in Jesus and such love that He has for me is awesome and I will share it always. If that offends a person who already KNOWS Him, what can I do? But if that person doesn't really KNOW Him, than I am a fool to shut my mouth and say nothing. At least that is how I look at it. I'm sorry you were offended. Maybe you have some understanding now...? | ||
| Djconklin |
Sherry2, >His talk about no vinegar from egw, Ok, that's one. And all I noted was that i had never heard of it and wanted to know where she wrote that and what was wrong with it--is that so bad? And this is out of how many items that I listed? >> his talk of vegetarian to be ready for Jesus to come..egw Yeah, team we're up to two! >>Veltman quote - look at what you wrote yourself. Pardon, me; I will. I did and I will read his summary very carefully. >>Bottom line, there is a very argumentative spirit here. Yes, and you're feeding the fire right now. Look at what he said and what I wrote very carefully. >>Have you met Jesus? Yes, long time ago and He has spoken to me and guided me along the way--any more items you wish to stick your nose into? Did I "interrogate" you? | ||
| Sherry2 |
As someone once graciously did for me, I know do to...I am stepping out from this conversation. Who knows...maybe I'm wrong. God bless you, DJConklin. You are loved beyond measure. | ||
| Breezy |
Sherry2, My only point is, how can you determine if someone knows Him or not? We just cannot judge that. I'm going to follow your lead and drop this. God bless you, Wendy | ||
| Susan |
Sherry2, A great big AMEN to you! I sense nothing but love and the Spirit of Christ in your messages. If someone belongs to Jesus Christ, then it should not be offensive to hear the salvation message proclaimed. It should be sweet music to our ears, to hear of the only assurance we can have of our salvation. The confusion and animosity seems to be coming from another source. I find it interesting that your comments are met with an argumentative spirit, instead of the other way around. In Christ alone, Susan | ||
| Margie |
Hi! I'm new to the forum! I understand where DJ is coming from. A year ago I was pretty much a defender of the SDA church and EGW. I was well grounded in the SDA church and nothing could ever "pry' me away. Well, nothing but the Holy Spirit! Wow, I'm still making the journey and can see the Spirit of God leading me and my grown children. I went all the way thru SDA school system thru college. I know I was indoctrinated in the SDA belief system as were my children. I grew up in a fairly rigid SDA home. We were careful to guard the edges of the Sabbath. We were vegetarians, and were very much discouraged to have friends of other faiths and that included relatives. I married an Adventist who wasn't really an Adventist or a christian (I know I'm judging), and had two beautiful boy children who also grew up in SDA schools. However, I ended up a single parent soon after our second son was born. My oldest son got into drugs in the 9th grade at CA and it continued through-out highschool. Several years later He went to "The Bridge" which is when I began to see some problems with the rigidity of the SDA religion. DJ was fortunate to not have been raised in such a rigid environment. I know dozens, if not hundreds of Adventists who were raised in a fairly rigid environment and many aren't going to any church at all. Others are in the SDA church, they show up, participate some and carry on a life that would almost not be considered "christian". I know these people well, some are relatives some are life long friends. Anyway, I have read the statements from EGW regarding the vineger and the meat-eating thing. I have felt quilty for most of my life because I was rarely ready for the Sabbath on Friday evening, and never kept it just right, and my diet was never just right--my mom would call from another state and would get on my case for not being ready for the Sabbath. Didn't matter that I was a single parent and worked full time at a very demanding job and participated very much in my childrens lifes. Even today, my mother begs me to give up EGW if I have to but don't turn your back on the Sabbath--God requires this she says I must be obedient to the 10 commandment law. She does not understand that I could possibly be a christian because I no longer keep the Sabbath--she believes I am lost and will surely betray her to the authorities when the "Sunday Law" is instituted! I know dozens of SDA's who believe just like her. I know the SDA church in my hometown is praying that God will wake me up and bring me back to SDA church. I just wish they would pray for the Holy Spirit to continue to lead me! My mother really is a saint! I don't resent my upbringing--I know my parents did what they thought was right. I do feel bad that my Mom does not have the assurance of salvation. She is not sure she would be saved if she forgot to ask forgivness for one sin (I don't know what she could ever do wrong!) and was killed. So, DJCONKLIN, there are alot of pretty rigid SDA's out there and a lot more raised in those rigid homes unlike the home you were raised in. I was taught from very early that Sabbath-keeping was the key to being saved--that identified you with the last-day church and assured you a home in the Kingdom. No, it wasn't presented exactly like that but it was certainly implied. My son came out of the Bridge hating SDA's and any church. For five years he would not go to church but for some reason (the Holy Spirit?!)He and his girlfriend are now going with me to a wonderful Sunday church and his eyes are being opened to the simple truth of God's word and the meaning of salvation. I thought I taught him this--I thought I understood this even when I was a SDA. hOWEVER, It is becoming more beautiful than I ever could have understood as an Adventist. I wouldn't trade the freedom I have found in Jesus Christ in the past 10 months for anything I had before--there is no comparison and I've been both places! I considered myself an evangelical SDA. I know my mother is a christian and many of my friends in the SDA church are beautiful christians also. If I say more than that it will appear I think I am superior--and I know I am not! DJCONKLIN keep your love for the Lord Jesus and continue to ask for His Spirit to guide you in your Bible studies. Would you allow me to be in pray with you? From Margie an undeserved sinner saved by Grace! | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Margie, Freedom in Christ, ain't it great?! Welcome! Great to hear your story. Your mom sounds very much like mine. It's the same Sabbath line that was drilled into us, huh? I get rather irritated when she tells me that my kids and I will have to choose between turning her into the authorities to be jailed or killed or keeping our own lives! It is great that your son is now getting an introduction to the Christ of the Bible. The focus of most of the SDAs that I know is so human and earthly. The focus is so inward and downward! Hope you keep on reading and posting. All you new people posting is exciting;-)) Maryann | ||
| Terry |
Margie and Maryann, great to read such encouraging thoughts. I have a Lady friend who I would love to have meet the two of you. She just can't understand why I believe the way I do about the SDA church. She is so intelligent and loves Christ, yet totally believes that I have left the truth. "Someday I will have to make a choice to either keep the Sabbath or deny it and go to hell." I realize that to beleive the way she does, indicates that "the veil" remains over the heart and mind. How do we get people to see through this insidious dilusion, known as SDAism? This Lady of whom I speak is one of the closest friends I have ever had. We can no longer talk about spiritual things as it always comes back to the "Sabbath." I hate this! My heart sinks when she calls because we no longer share in the wonderful gospel news. I once shared, but it was a perverted gospel. You put garbage in the soup, and you got garbage. Frustrated Terry | ||
| Colleentinker |
I'm sorry, Terry. I know the feeling of not being able to talk about what's most important to you with people whom you are or have been closest to. Praise God he is patient and just and the source of joy! Colleen | ||
| Margie |
Maryann and Terry thanks for your welcome and words of encouragement. It is difficult to talk with my SDA friends and family members about salvation and being a Christian now. You are right there is definitly a different focus. A veil is covering the eyes/heart. But that was me several years ago. I keep thanking God for lifting that veil for me and wondering why He chose me! But how grateful I am. How wonderful and marvelous and....well I just can't think of words good enough to describe how I feel! I do get too enthusiastic sometimes in trying to tell my SDA friends or family members what I am learning and how wonderful God is. However, it is not usually received very well and of course I am trampling all over their belief system. I must be careful not to offend...so I asked God to please put His hand over my mouth unless He has given me an opening, an opportunity to share! He does it in marvelous ways! Praise the Lord for His patience in my life...I'd given up on me a long time ago!! See ya later. | ||
| Terry |
Maryann, Collen, and Margie, will you please pray for my friend. Her name is Darla, I don't think she would be recognized by anyone on this site. She could be such a light unto the world, were she free from the dilusion she is under. I was never a happy Adventist, ever! Amazing that God hung in there with me, amazing! (Grace)! :-)) Terry | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Terry, Yes, there will be an extra prayer. There are many, many, many, many, many, many honestly deluded folk in the SDA church! Don't forget to e-mail me. Did you ever read the John Newton story? You know the guy that wrote Amazing Grace? The best versions are the ones aimed at teens or pre-teens. Sometimes, it is good to read a simple book written simply for our conjested adult minds:-)) Maryann | ||
| Colleentinker |
Terry, I will pray for Darla. I understand the underlying angst that always hangs over Adventism. Even though I believed in grace, I still had that Adventist "something". Richard and I saw someone we used to work with this weekend. It had been over a year since we had seen this person, and I was startled when she said we both looked differentópeaceful and happy, she said. I was surprised but really pleased to hear that. Richard said to me later, "I know I FEEL different!" We had no idea anyone would be able to see it. There's nothing to compare with knowing, loving, and living with Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Djconklin |
Susan, >>The confusion and animosity seems to be coming from another source. I find it interesting that your comments are met with an argumentative spirit, instead of the other way around. I don't know where you studied mind-reading (or learned to impute motives) at but I'd like to suggest that you get your money back. There in no argumentative spirit here. I simply pointed out some cold, hard, concrete facts. To wit: I was asked to read and respond to Clay Peck's story and when I did so I was summarily attacked for doing so. Unfortunately, some people can't handle the facts much less the truth of the matter. I prefer them to the mushy declarations of love that aren't love. | ||
| Djconklin |
Margie, I felt that you may be one to something; who knows maybe this forum needs to be renamed to "former rigid SDA"s" of some such. >>were very much discouraged to have friends of other faiths and that included relatives. You were?!? We weren't thank heavens. >>I have read the statements from EGW regarding the vineger Can you tell me where? I have read many of here books and that doesn't stick out at all. Now I have read the alleged prophecy that anti- and former SDA's point to about EGW saying that England would enter the American Civil War--that doesn't hold up to close examination. >>I was taught from very early that Sabbath-keeping was the key to being saved--that identified you with the last-day church and assured you a home in the Kingdom. This is the very kind of thing that I was referring to before about how I think that many of you were seriously misled. I'm currently reading a little booklet put out in 1937 about the Sabbath by Arthur W. Spalding and it gives a very enlightening and positive approach to the Sabbath. None of this legalistic nonsense that you seemed to have been taught. >>Would you allow me to be in pray with you? Always, please. After how I was jumped on here and then had some problems at home I found myself thinking that maybe this religion thing is all a hoax and I was ready to chuck it all. But then logic kicked in and demolished that idea. | ||
| Djconklin |
Terry, >insidious dilusion, known as SDAism ?!? I _learned_ more about the Bible, Jesus, and being saved by grace through faith and righteousness by faith (not _just_ justification by faith). from the SDA church than I have from any other source (and that's not because I didn't look either!). Maybe _you_ were raised in a poor environment like Margie suggested but that doesn't give you call to label so badly. | ||
| Susan |
Praying for the Holy Spirit to work in all who post here. I also pray for the love of Christ to live in each one of us, so that we may share it with a hurting and dying world. "This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." 1John 4:10-12 | ||
| Colleentinker |
I hear how upset you are, djconklin. I'm still praying for you! God's gifts to all who love him are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. I pray that you and all of us who come to this forum will experience these fruits of the Spirit. God is so goodóhe loves us even in our most hostile, confused, frantic, and depressed moments. "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (I Cor. 13:13) | ||
| Billthompson |
DJ, I am kind of new to this forum and just came across your many posts. Since I do not know you very well, could you do me a personal favor? (not that you have to since you don't really know me either) I have never heard your testimony. Perhaps you have shared it here before and I missed it. Would you mind sharing it again? Would you specificly address these areas in your testimony? --When did you accept Christ as your personal Savior? --What are you trusting in for salvation? --Do you fear you could lose your salvation? Or, a related question, do you have a FIRM assurance of your salvation? I only ask since settling these issues transformed my life and gave me a much stronger witness for the Lord. You may have shared your testimony here before, so, if you do not wish to do it again, could you write to me privately? Coming to terms with these issues gave me a peace that truly passes understanding. You may have a similar testimony, I just have not had the privalege to hear it. billtod@airmail.net God Bless You, Bill Thompson |
