| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker |
I just had a conversation with an Adventist friend whom I really cherish. She told me that a So. Cal. Adventist pastor whom we both know held a study group for twentysomething Adventists at a local church near Loma Linda for several months. Here's what he discovered: those university-aged young adults had never heard of Desmond Ford, Walter Rea, Ron Numbers, etc. I was startled but no shocked. I've realized that Adventist Academies and elementary schools are not teaching the distinctives in the depth I learned them. The kids know of Ellen White; they hear she was God's messenger and wrote very helpful spiritual material for the church. They know the Sabbath, but they're not actively being taught it's the seal of Godóat least not at the lower levels. They're learning the lifestyle, they're learning Jesus died to save them, and they're growing up "evangelical" with no deep understanding of salvation, mission, OR Adventism. They tend to be "liberal" and tolerant. One twenty-something Adventist I know who has a very respected position in Adventism rarely attends Adventist churches. For a long time this person attended a Unity church, all the while feeling no conflict with owning an Adventist identity and carrying a responsible position within Adventism. As a generalization, these twenty-something Adventists don't care about the doctrinal problems of the church, and they don't want to hear about them. They don't truly know what Adventism is or what it's been through even in recent history. Many are aware of the serious political problems, but the doctrinal ones are just relative. They really seem to believe that the details don't matter; everyone has to decide for himself what he believes, and some may be very conservative and religious, and some may be quite agnostic. It's all quite personal and irrelevant. The problem is, even though young Adventists do not really know what their church truly and officially teaches or what the issues are within the church, they are loyally Adventist. It's an identity as strong as it was for me and my peers. They are still bound by the "spirit of Adventism", and they are blind to its problems and to the way it prevents them from understanding Jesus and his amazing sacrifice and their amazing salvation. My generation was raised questioning and searching for answersónot that we all found them! Today's gerenation is post-modern. Reality and truth is whatever you find and believe in your own heart. Descontsructionism is accomplishing its work; there is no objective truth. Each person's experience determines truth for him or her. Adventism has a different face on each generation, but it has the same dark heart. It's still unrepentantly based on deception. Each generation grows up in a newly-defined Adventism that still binds its members to itself and its secrets. There still is no change in the teachings of the church. But young Adventists have no idea what they are inheriting. Colleen | ||
| Billthompson |
Colleen, On the bright side this may be an even easier group to witness to, IF we stick to the basics of the Gospel message, forget SDA distinctives. I have talked about this at greater length on another thread "Prayer: Answers To Prayer" in two post made today. Let's try to get them firmly grounded in a solid, Biblical assurance of their salvation by grace alone and let the Holy Spirit reveal the rest. Our job, present the gospel clearly and consistantly. In Christ, Bill Thompson | ||
| Tony |
We must help the youth to fall in love with Jesus first then all else will fall into place. My heart breaks for SDA kids as they are placed under bondage from the time they are born and this leads into a empty, sad and depressed life of legalism and rules and regulations. Please pray for the SDA youth that God leads them out of the legalism that bounds them within the SDA and into the freedom of Jesus Christ and His life of righteousness and grace. :) With warm Christian love, Tony Valentino | ||
| Allenette |
Colleen: Aint it the TRUTH !! My mind has boggled for the longest when I am around my still-SDA older brother's daughter and husband, who converted to please her :-) It appears to ME, that the younger ones for the most part, are more of a pick-and-choose variety...i.e., what they consider "sins" depends on what they enjoy doing ggggg. Now, mind you, I also agree with Bill who says that so many formers (myself included,) give up Christianity altogether after the battering life of SDA (If done 'correctly' ggg). In my case, I decided to find out 'what else' was out there, and, after studying many available belief systems, decided that most of them were based on mythological hogwash, and decided to take my chances just by trying to live a good, decent life without the Pavlovian punishment/reward scenario. 30+ years later, it still seems like a noble way to live :-) I cant, for the life of me, figure out WHY these 'young SDA' BOTHER to willingly, continue association with, and pay 'dues' to, an organization whose "rules" they have no intention of following...I've often been heard saying that if it were me, I would find an easier club to join! OTOH, I DO UNDERSTAND WHY they do it...in SDA, its a VERY SMALL WORLD, and if you are brought up in it, you meet like-minded people, of the opposite sex, who are just as indoctrinated, who will date you, marry you, understand head-hunting as a religion---oops, wrong thread---but you get my drift. Its a cultural thang really when you sort it all out :-) As Wendy is finding out :-(( | ||
| Allenette |
Ooops I said, Wendy...of course I meant Chyna | ||
| Allenette |
Regarding "Mythological Hogwash", here's a MUST READ! I should post this on another thread maybe?? http://www.chronicle.com/free/v46/i20/20a01901.htm This is from I believe, a Jewish website. V e r y I n t e r e s t i n g......???? WDYT? | ||
| Chyna |
yes, i can attest to the looseness that the younger set (my age) ascribes to. one of my ex's friends was like "now, me, I don't care about detail etc." and I was like, *I* care about detail. it is also a pretty cushy set up of acceptance if you are adventist because you'll be raised in a very homogenized environment. *sigh*, Chyna | ||
| Colleentinker |
Chyna, you're right. And, Allenette, you've summed it up: "it's a cultural thang!" It's interesting that the culture is so profoundly enveloping, yet Adventists never admit that belonging is as powerful as it is. Instead, they hide the extreme emotional hold the church has on them behind a litany of "distinictive" biblical "truths". Strip away the "truths", and they're still left with the inexplicable hold the culture has on them. The powerful, emotional, non-logical hold the church has on its menmbers is one of the reasons I believe Satan has a spiritual claim on the church. Colleen | ||
| Allenette |
Well, Colleen, I surely appreciate your comments. Trouble is, if we were simply sociologists examining this peculiar sect, we could get much more OBJECTIVE with our musings ggg We wouldnt lock on to some demon to blame for the state of affairs...we would simply state the obvious....that sheltered cultures (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, to name a couple) thrive in that atmosphere which is insulated from secular conjecture, which would easily undermine it if it entered the controlled conversation. | ||
| Chyna |
allenette, we do believe that demons are very real and that there is spiritual warfare going on all the time. in America where spirits aren't given as much validity their influence is much more subtle, but for third world countries, they can attest that there are very real manifestations of demons. i only wish you could have been present when they cast out of a demon in a girl at this Christian camp my friends went to. demon possession is very real. fortunately, we have a power greater than Satan. if you read about some missionary work, God works through angels visibly sometimes. i remember hearing about these missionaries that were in a dangerous area and the villagers were going to attack them, but when they were going to they saw a whole army of men guarding the place where they slept. the missionaries had no army ... they were simply angels. i know this will sound incredulous to you, but to Christians, it's just an affirmation of the spiritual world around us. love in Christ, Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
allenette- you have such a pretty french? name. the book i had read about stuff similar to the anecdote i mentioned is: Through Gates of Splendor by Elisabeth Elliot The unforgettable true story of five men who braved Auca lances and were martyred for the sake of the Gospel. This edition includes a follow-up chapter that will give readers an update on events that occurred in the aftermath of this seeming tragedy. | ||
| Maryann |
And...Allenette is as cool as her name!;=)) Maryann | ||
| Allenette |
Chyna: NOT trying to pick a fight here, honest, but...the stories you have related have been "making the rounds" for a couple of generations now, and fall into the current terminology of "urban legend", or whatever the missionary equivalent of that, is. On another forum AN SDA PASTOR quite recently related another one as fact: you'll like this one---> In some far east country (pick one) a farmer's water buffalo SPEAKS and tells him that the "7th day is the Sabbath", and another farmer's water buffalo wont work from sundown Friday thru sundown Saturday !! Colleen, have you heard that one? ggg Adventist water buffalo! The mind boggles. But...we can all probably hear the mumbles of "Amen, amen, amen" when that story is told in church. Puleeze! I hate to say, but my own SDA pastor father had a few good "stories" tucked up his sleeve to pull out at appropriate times. When I expressed my doubts about their veracity, he explained that they could also be seen as "object lessons", or "symbolic". For me, truth is truth and fiction is fiction. I find nothing wrong with fiction, just dont pass it off as truth because we can look at history and see how EASILY masses of people are manipulated into believing JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ggg Personally, I DO NOT believe in demons,and attempting to validate their existence in, usually, third world countries where the majority of the population is un- or undereducated and very easily manipulated, by just about anyone higher up in the pecking order, is, IMHO, at the least, naive. Are you suggesting, Chyna, that because we are (supposedly) more intellectually sophisticated in America and other parts of the world, we have scared off those "demons" from coming "over here"? Just wondering and perhaps putting your feet to the fire a bit to justify your statement above. :-))) I'm sure you are aware, that we are only a few generations removed from realizing that many claims of "demon possession" were/are actually chemical imbalances in the brain and a few other medical problems. Do I recognize that there is good and evil on this planet? There's no question about it. Why? Well, for many inquiring minds, the jury is still deliberating ;-) As for me, I cannot turn into Flip Wilson and claim that "the Devil Made Me Do It". GGGGG Cheers, Allenette, who WISHES her name was French but its homemade. My dad's name was Allen and my mom's, Harriet. | ||
| Patti |
Hey, Allenette, Did you ever wonder about the technical veracity Eric B. Hare stories? We kids had them memorized; we could even imitate his style. "And so do I; and so do I--. And soooo do I---" (The Big Yellow Truck, FYI.) | ||
| Sherry2 |
I do believe in demons, or the Bible should be quoting Jesus simply telling the wildman to be healed, and other instances that he cast out demons. He, in many instances outright healed people, and if these were simply brain imbalances that he certainly would've healed them, rather than to continue a superstition by casting out demons, and by name at that. Demons are the evil angels at work. And I indeed have experienced them personally in my own life, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Anyone who has ever been through satanic ritual abuse knows this too. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers... of the darkness of this world" And then continues with our armor to put on in this spiritual warfare. God bless all. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Allenette, Adventist Water Buffalo!;-)) Hee, hee, hee!! But OUR OWN "FORMER", Steve, has an Adventist body! It gets sick when IT eats pork!! Sorry Steve...to good to pass up;-)) Maryann | ||
| Allenette |
Sherry2: With all due respect, if we can assume, that Jesus WAS a bit more advanced than His comtemporaries, who knows WHAT He did, to fix individual's problems. Certainly, the early writers of Biblical scriptures, and there were MANY of them, revising, down thru the ages, had NO WAY of ascertaining what method was used to accomplish said healing, and that does nothing to presume any of the writer's agenda(s) at the time. The Early Christian church (eventually Catholic of course) found it expeditious to foster the idea of demons, for centuries. Now, the church is very cautious regarding exorcisms, etc. In fact, now, they RARELY give attention to it. I WONDER WHY? I guess the more developed countries have been more successful in keeping the boogeyman under the bed, eh? (IOW, denouncing the existence of...) I find it a bit humorous, when I read Christian forums, and realize that so many on them, for example, when quoting their Christ, assume that Jesus spoke the King's English~~oh well....;-) Have you been thru "Satanic Ritual Abuse"? Perhaps I missed your post regarding your experience? Would you care to elaborate/recap? Inquiring minds want to know. | ||
| Sherry2 |
If that is your response, Allenette, than it would be unwise for me to share my story. I do not need to be torn down for what truthfully happened in my life. And I can quote that beautiful text from NIV too...not a problem. In fact that was my first choice...it just happened to spill out from memory in KJV. I do not think Jesus spoke in KJV...why would you assume that people think that? | ||
| Sherry2 |
Hmm, before I sound deceptive, I did not go through Satanic Ritual Abuse - a close friend did. The story I mention in the last post is my own story - one that I couldn't even talk about until in my teens because it paralyzed me in fear, and into a fetal possision, crying, literally. I am thankful by the grace of God to have walked more free and free knowing that Jesus does love me, and has been there for me working through a challenging thing. | ||
| Allenette |
Sherry2: because they DO. :-) Everyday people memorize Bible verses that comfort them, and reinforce their (whatever) current situations. Very few everyday people will EVER bother to investigate the (even if their spiritual leaders WOULD suggest to them that they do so, which they dont--none of the moderators here have, yet, with all due respect) HISTORY of their particular belief system. Ask Hitler or Goering, for example, which is easier: repeat, repeat, repeat, easy to memorize friendly phrases, or require your followers to do their homework and study study study to find the TRUTH for themselves? All I am saying, is, I would suggeset that anyone posting on any (insert subject) website, if you are TRULY interested in the subject, do some homework rather than just spending your offtime posting your views. The internet is a wonderful place to investigate so many possiblities on most any subject. Perhaps it would be a FIRST For some, but, you will be required to THINK FOR YOURSELF. Remember the old saying, "A little knowledge is dangerous". Act accordingly.W O W I am realizing that I sound like the Preacher's Kid Who Never Could Be! (Or else a fortune cookie ggg) Because we would have been able to say that without getting fired. OMG!! |
