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Archive through August 15, 2000Breezy20 8-15-00  1:15 am
Archive through August 16, 2000Patti20 8-16-00  4:28 pm
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Colleentinker
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good points, Susan.

Walking with God has nothing to do with trying to keep the commandments. It is a relationship of intimacy, not of criticism or fault-finding. When we love Jesus, our relationship with him is completely unique. It is based on love, passionate love, and it is a love for which it is worth risking everything in life.

Only love can break the power of legalism, law-keeping, and deception. Deception can look very similar to the REAL THING. But love is more powerful than deception. In the presence of God's love, deception cannot prevail.

When one once experiences the love of Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit, there is no question about which Spirit is at work. There is just absolutely no doubt.

I pray in the name of Jesus Christ that His Spirit will be present on this website and will teach us and hold us accountable to Him with His omnipotent love.

In His love and grace,
Colleen
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti,
I think you know. I think it is pretty obvious.

Colleen,
Yes, the counterfeit is very close to the real thing, isn't it.

Wendy
Susan
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enoch didn't keep the laws perfectly. He had a sinful human nature. Even his most wonderful and righteous deeds would be counted as filthy rags.

What laws were in place when Enoch walked the earth?Certainly not "the big ten", so he wasn't keeping the sabbath. I guess sacrifes would be a requirement of him. Anything else?
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,
Prove everything you said from scripture alone. I want texts!
Prove that those are not just your assumptions.
Wendy
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,
Are you saying that you take Paul's word (his quotes!) over what God decided. Show me where God said "You are dressed in the filthy rags of your own works and failed attempts at keeping the law, but I'm going to bring you to live in Heaven with me anyway. It doesn't matter that Heaven is a sinless place. We'll let you in anyway."

*HEARTY SCOFF!*

Wendy
Susan
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy, I'm not going to respond to your orders. Frankly, I'm tired of your antagonistic presence. I will no longer discuss anything with you.

I pray that the power of Jesus Christ will bind all the evil that is at work on this site.

Susan
Terry
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you really mean that, Wendy?
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23 Is this a lie? Enoch "walked with God" and then God took him. Is there any other info on Enoch elsewhere? Elijah sinned, we know for sure, and God took him to Heaven too.
You really don't mean that above, do you?
Terry
Terry
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, Please have patience with this child of God. She is here for a purpose...
Terry
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy, show us from Scripture that Enoch kept all of God's Laws. You said this above, now show us, please. *Smiles*
Terry
Delstar
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy, I keep asking everyone I know who feels the way you do about being 'good'...do you know anyone who is or has been 'good enough' to enter heaven? And so far I haven't found anyone who does.

That was one of my problems (of which I had many).. In Revelation I see this 'great multitude' but there isn't anyone who is 'ready' by the standards of perfection. I had to study some more to learn what it was all about.

Remember over in VOAF where we were talking about the issue of 'dress'? Dwayne posted about the 'dress' that a Christian should have... the whole armor of God. I agreed to that. It's not what's outside that counts but what's inside. The rest of that quote says that after you are dressed, your duty is to stand. It stops there. Just stand!! Can you imagine fighting a battle by standing? And yet that's what God has told us to do. If I stand....then it is well with my soul. How much more can we want?

I was so overcome with gratitude and praise when I finally discovered that I could come on a daily basis, just as I am...and Jesus accepts me because I trust Him and love Him. If you had known me before I truly accepted Jesus, you would know that He has made a complete turn around in my life. I tried so hard, Wendy. I struggled with 'sin' and tried to eliminate it from my life but it only got worse...and when it got worse, I became bitter and ugly. I knew the 'truth' and I knew there was no way I was going to 'make it'. I also knew I loved Jesus but I knew He didn't love me. Ellen told me that He can't love bad children....and I was BAD.

My problem was that I didn't know the 'TRUTH' (Jesus). I knew about Him but I didn't know who He is.

A minister came to our area once and did a small series with the attendees of the church with inductive study. I began to think it was some form of brainwashing for when someone would give a perfectly wonderful answer...he would say 'no' and then insist on having the specific word which would be the same answer he had just been given but everyone was to be able to answer in the given 'phraseology'. That bothered me immensely but one thing did creep into my mind from what he said....he would continually say, "Now how big is your God?" My God stayed the same size...and I knew there was something more wrong....(with me, of course).

I had God in a little box. One that said 'His character is shown by the 10 Cs', 'He insists upon exactness', 'I must be perfect or He won't love me'.

I know that He is perfect and cannot tolerate even a small itsy bitsy sin. He will never lower his standard for mere creatures like you and me, Wendy. We MUST be perfect or we can't be there with Him.

The Bible says that if we are trying to measure up by keeping the law, we musn't make one little bobble from it. We must keep it in its entirety and breaking just one little portion of it is enough to lose us for eternity. (Back when I was in Primary class, there was a lady who told us about the commandments....they are a chain....all of them compose the chain. If you break one link, you will fall off.)

Taking all of those thoughts...along with the text that says all of our 'righteousnesses' (or goodness) is as filthy rags...and then never being able to find anyone who was going to make it to be with Jesus....I realized that there was something wrong in my understanding of the gospel message.

When I finally saw what it was....I realized that God doesn't want my filthy rags. He wants me to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Now what filthy rag things am I supposed to be doing to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ?

I can do nothing. Absolutely nothing. But the good news is that if Jesus is living in my heart via the Holy Spirit, He will shine forth from my heart and then it is His work in me, not my filthy rags.

Oh, it was so wonderful and then my God began to grow. He is huge now!! Immense!! I love Him so very much because He made a way of escape for us. Not by anything we do or don't do but just because we trust Him.

Jesus Is Enough
Breezy
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan,
I am simply giving back what you gave to me. You are not willing to take what you give out. You ordered me to give texts and then mocked me when I refused to respond. Why do you back away when someone uses your own tactics.

Terry,
I told you, please e-mail me. I was simply trying to make a point with Susan about the manner in which she continually addresses me and degrades me.

Wendy
hvnlybrz@netscape.net
Terry
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wendy, I sent you an email about a half hour ago!
*Smiles*
Terry
Susan
Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry, I refuse to dialogue with people who are unreasonable and insulting. It's frustrating to ask questions (in a polite manner), only to have them ignored. I do not want to engage in a discussion with someone that is hostile. If you or others want to continue, I pray God's blessings to you all. I will certainly keep Wendy in my prayers, but I will not take part in her insane games anymore.

Susan
Joni
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 4:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Delstar,
You are so right, God is HUGE. I appreciated your testimony. I know what you mean. When the veil gets torn in half in your heart, the weight lifts, and it is glorious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Praise the Lord for knowing that we cannot ever be good enough and for sending His Son Jesus Christ to save us from our sins!!!!!!!!!!
Joni
Lydell
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And doesn't it say something about how immense the Lord's mercy truly is to look at the stuff King David did and yet see that the Lord calls Him, "a man after my own heart."

That's the thing that SDA's never get. We don't receive Christ as saviour and are automatically cleaned up. The Lord has one heck of alot of work to do in us. WE still have a human nature here in this world. He can be working on one tiny area in our life while there is a huge pile of stinking garbage in another corner of our lives that He has yet to address. For instance, the stipper who has newly become a Christian. She stands completely righteous before the Lord NOW, but she doesn't have a clue about all the stuff that needs changing in her life. Heck, she doesn't even have a clue yet what "being good"
could possibly mean!

He doesn't turn His back on us because of the stinky stuff in the corner. "While we were STILL sinners Christ died for us."

Like someone said, HE is so big and so good I can never possibly approach being like His character. I MUST have Christ's covering of HIS character to make me acceptible to God. It is because our hearts break with love for Him that He can change us from within.

And Wendy, lest you hurry to quote the "Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" Matt. 5:48 verse (as the SDA's SO love to do continuously!), I would encourage you to read it in context. The context has nothing whatsoever to do with any acts of making ourselves perfect in comparison to the 10. The context is loving others.
Lydell
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 6:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, Bill, I just wanted you to know. \o/
We went through months of struggle before we laid down the sabbath. Actually, it took a word from Him before we realized that we needed to "set it down" and stop questioning what the heck we were supposed to do with it. And wait on Him.

He had most clearly led us to the church we were attending. E-mail me privately and I'll tell you the story. It's pretty funny actually.

We knew what we were hearing was solidly scriptural preaching, we were being blessed, we were growing in the Lord. We were watching both our sons get back on fire for the Lord.

So what the heck are we supposed to do with the "sabbath command"? He clearly said to us to "set it down now, I'll let you know when I'm ready to explain it all". Actually that's another funny story too. I totally was convinced that when He got back to it He would tell us something like, "okay, I've taught you some stuff, now I want you to go back to the SDA church". Wrong. Instead, one day my first waking thought was "go to Rolaant's site and read "Sabbatarianism Re-examined". I'd sneared at it when I first noticed the title. Hadn't ever looked at any of it!

But I obeyed and went and read and the thing that immediately leaped out at me was "Christ IS your sabbath rest." And then when I went back to the word (always go back to the word and check it out! Hey, that's one lesson we did learn from being in sadventism!) there it was leaping at me from everywhere. Everything just fit together all over the scriptures. It was awesome.

Umm, okay, sorry to break into this thread. Couldn't figure how to start a new one! Let's see, um, okay, the SDA's woudl interpret Roman 2:13 to do with the 10. But as a spirit filled believer you know that it is actually referring to so much more. The SDA's are, by their actions and teachings, worshipping the law. The spirit filled believer is worshipping the Mind behind the law, the Spirit of the law. And that means you obey things such as "go to Rolaant's site and read..." "pick up the phone and call_____and remind them that no matter what their situation looks like I DO love them" "offer a coke to the people in the hospital waiting rooms," etc.

Joni, I recently heard a speaker say something that reflects on what you said I think. He noted that when the veil was torn into the glory left the temple. But that at Pentecost the glory returned to "fill the temple" of His believers. Doesn't that thought rock you on your heels?

The glory of the Lord lives in me! Not just His presence, but His glory. Man! To think that He would do that already knowing how I would mess things up. Knowing that I had so much stuff to be dealt with. Knowing that I AM the temple of the living God not because of anything that I can do but because of who He is. Man! He really bent down low to touch us didn't he!

Like you were saying, it takes getting in your mind just HOW LOW the Lord had to bend down to let you catch the vision that YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE GOOD. Praise God for freedom!
Susan
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lydell, You are like a breath of fresh air! Your posts are just so Spirit filled. Thank you!

One thing that's very helpful for me, is to look at everything a bible writer has to say on a subject. It can be puzzling to pick a verse here and there. That's how many false teachings start. This might be really fun! Try and read ALL of the verses that Paul has devoted to the law. Perhaps it would be helpful to write them down. Then you can see where his emphasis is. Remember scripture will not contradict scripture (that's the job of false prophets!). When I did a study on Rev. that's what the teacher had us do. In fact, it was about what John had to say regarding the law. We went through the bible to see just what he meant by the "law". In 1John he gives us his definition as "The Royal" law, Not the big 10.
It's 1John 3:23 an 4:21 to be exact.

Praising God that my focus is on Jesus now!
Susan
Lydell
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely you are right. But then you need to go on and look at such things as "commandments" and "commands" to get the whole picture too. It's amazing how much stuff we overlooked, isn't it? It comes down always to the difference between looking to the words, or looking to the author of the words.

And thanks for your kind words.

Praising God with you for OUR focus on Jesus! yes!

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