| Author | Message | ||
| Lydell |
We have been told that, very sadly, Brinsmead has in the past handful of years now become very much anti-Christian, so please be aware of that when you see his name on something. His book, Sabbatarianism Re-Examined, that you can find on Rolaant MacKenzie's site Gospel Outreach Ministries On-Line is also very helpful by the way. http://www-personal.si.umich.edu/~rlm/sda.html | ||
| Jen |
Thank you for replying to my inquiry. I wonder if this is some of the writing that has set the view that Brinsmead has become anti-Christian: http://quango.net/brinsmead/scandalgodsjusticepart3.htm#The Theological Basis of Christendom's Ugly Face. The Theological Basis of Christendom's Ugly Face. These unpleasant features of Western Christianity should not be dismissed as simply the aberrations of the sinful human nature which exists in all Christians. Of course, an inherent intolerance in human nature cannot be denied. But we need to face the evidence that Western Christianity has given intolerance a theological basis. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Although this is strong and up to tight screwtiny! In the series of articles in which this is part (The Scandal of God's Justice)I have never seen God and His Justice, Mercy and Righteousness in such a way. It is truly beautiful. I have read Sabbatarism Re-Examined and I enjoyed that also. I will re-read it probably several times. I also read "Gods Rest" by Jack Gent and learned profound applications that will always be with me. There is so much that the Lord is revealing and delivering with power and conviction. I am consumed by it all! I am in contact with my parents daily. They are 86 and 81 now and my dad still preaches when he is asked. I relay my walk to them and we talk about it. My Dad also knew Brinsmead (when he was an Adventist) and held him in high reguard at the time. He lost touch with him and really didn't know what had become of him. My Dad has been retired now for 20yrs. This is a great site! I look foward to the fellowship here. Thank you | ||
| Pat Darnell |
"The Scandal of God's Justice" was part of the good work Brinsmead did in the 80's. I have some of his most recent work, and it is about Jesus: "The Status of Jesus Re-examined." He takes up how the pre-existence of Christ, the virgin birth, even the resurrection, are myths, born of the excitement of the early Christians in the perfect life of Jesus and its influence. I will continue to try to understand where he is headed, but it seems to me that he may have been heavily influenced by the Jesus Seminar, who met for a decade, and voted on the stories of Jesus and the sayings of Jesus, whether they were truly done/said by Him or not. When they finished, there was a only small portion of Mark's Gospel which they believe is genuine. Brinsmead's Jesus is more like the Mormon Jesus now - a human who followed God's will so closely that God called him "Son". Remember how Brinsmead told us that there was no place to go from the Gospel? I ask myself, what is the danger of us losing our faith, of looking for something greater than the Gospel, when someone like Bob can do it? Jesus asked, When the Son of Man cometh, will He find faith on the earth? Dear Father-God, hold us close to Yourself, that we don't fall away from faith in You, and into man-made doctrines! | ||
| Susan (Susan) |
It's a big struggle dealing with our pasts. I'll keep all of you in my prayers. Thomas, so sorry about your mother. It truly is sad that SDA's can't have that assurance of salvation. Praise God that we know! I recently asked my mom if my grandfather was saved, (he died a while ago and came back to adventism, after appox. 50 yrs. of being a "heathen")my mom replied "no one knows for sure." I just came back with "of course we can know, did he accept Christ's work on the cross for the payment of his sins? That's all there is." She had no response. Anyway, I understand how hard it must be for your wife. Your whole social support system probably centered around adventism. I also went to SDA schools(grades 1-8). It's amazing how much of your life the church can consume. But there's security in that, and it is very hard for some people to let go. Just be patient with her and let her see what Christ is doing in you. Focus on how much God loves her, just as she is. It's scary to think of going from a works oriented life, to a life of freedom in Christ alone. It seems to easy to SDA's. They just can't give some things up. That leads me to something else I've been curious about. Why do some former SDA's still continue to practice OT law by attending church on Sat.? They say that they're non-denominational but they still keep Sat. services. (we have one of these churches in my area that recently split from an SDA congregation)I'm just wondering? | ||
| Thomas |
Susan, Thank you for your christian love. One thing I've found out of Adventism is the complete feeling of love and acceptance that true Christians have for each other. This is a feeling that you do not feel in the "truth". Legalism is the most complete set of blinders man has ever devised. May God continue to bless you and all those who struggle with the continued battle between the Gospel and the law. I completely love Jesus. I never knew Him and I never understood grace or forgiveness. My heart aches for those who still don't, though they believe they are the chosen and the remnant. They will always be in my prayers. Marana tha | ||
| maggieb |
Thomas, your post says it all. In an Adventist setting, in the real world, or in cyberspace, you'd best keep your back to the wall. The burden of the Law is so heavy that it almost makes people dangerous! Compare that atmosphere to this one! I think former Adventists are a great resource in the world because of what they have come through. Maggie | ||
| Lynn |
Rogers, Since it's been a while since you wrote on the Former Adventist Web, I'll write you in person, so you'll be sure to get it. Then I'll post my answer on the site. You asked some good, honest questions. I donít discount your positive experiences in the SDA church, although you didnít say anything that I havenít seen & experienced in other churches. I can only speak for myself & a few others close to me. In the SDA churches Iíve been to, the entire sermon is based on Ellen White. The seductive part though, is that they never use the terms ěEllen White,î or ěSister White.î Instead, they always say either ěinspiration,î or ěthe spirit of prophecy.î This is very deceptive, & it took me a while to catch on. Iíve visited several SDA churches, some several times, and each time I found myself wondering, ědoes this guy own a Bible?î On the other hand, at other churches Iíve attended, the entire sermon is based on the Bible. In the other churches Iíve been to, there is no prophet or founder or writer whose writings are promoted in any way above any one else - just straight Bible. From reading Ellen Whiteís writings, youíll find that she fully intends for her writings to be received as if they were the Word of God. Notice how frequently she refers to ěthe Testimoniesî in the following sample of her own opinion of her writings from Testimonies Vol. 5, pg. 672-683. ěA prevailing skepticism is continually increasing in reference to the Testimonies of the Spirit of God; and these youth encourage questionings and doubts instead of removing them, because they are ignorant of the spirit and power and force of the Testimonies. I was shown that many had so little spirituality that they did not understand the value of the Testimonies or their real object. They talked flippantly of the Testimonies given by God...If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you WILL drift away from Bible truth... But those who seek to make my labor doubly hard by their misrepresentations, jealous suspicions, and unbelief, thus creating prejudice in the minds of others against the Testimonies God has given me, and limiting my work, have the matter to settle with God, while I shall go forward as Providence and my brethren may open the way before me...The volumes of Spirit of Prophecy, and also the Testimonies , should be introduced into every Sabbathkeeping family, and the brethren should know their value and be urged to read them. It was not the wisest plan to place these books at a low figure and have only one set in a church. They should be in the library of every family and be read again and again. Let them be kept where they can be read by many....Those who are reproved by the Spirit of God should not rise up against the humble instrument. It is God, and not an erring mortal, who has spoken to save them from ruin... Some have taken the position that the warnings, cautions, and reproofs given by the Lord through His servant, unless they come through special vision for each individual case, should have no more weight than counsels and warnings from other sources...There have been those who claimed that Testimonies purporting to be given by the Spirit of God were merely the expression of my own judgment, based upon information gathered from human sources. This statement is utterly false.î (emphasis added) By ěhumble instrumentî and ěHis servant,î itís not hard to see that Ellen White is referring to herself. By ěTestimoniesî (usually capitalized) Ellen White means her own writings from a set of books called ěTestimonies to the Church,î Volumes 1 through 9. By ěThe volumes of Spirit of Prophecyî Mrs. White is again referring to her own writings. From these statements and many others, one can see the value Mrs. White placed on her own writings and where she believed them to be from; and this should come as no surprise considering she said that, ěmy work includes much more than the word ëprophetí signifies.î While demanding absolute obedience to her every ěTestimony,î Ellen White herself was subject to no person on earth. She considered herself completely above reproach and was, therefore, accountable to no one. In Testimonies Vol. 5, pg. 19-20, and again on pg. 677-678, she records, ěLet none entertain the thought that I regret or take back any plain testimony I have borne to individuals or to the people. If I have erred anywhere, it is in not rebuking sin more decidedly and firmly. Some of the brethren have taken the responsibility of criticizing my work and proposing an easier way to correct wrongs. To these persons I would say: I take Godís way and not yours. What I have said or written in testimony or reproof has not been too plainly expressed...I take back nothing. I soften nothing to suit their ideas or to excuse their defects of character. I have not spoken as plainly as the case required. Those who would in any way lessen the force of the SHARP REPROOFS which God has given me to speak, must meet their work at the judgment...To those who have taken the responsibility to reprove me and, in their finite judgment, to propose a way which appears wiser to them I repeat: I do not accept your efforts. Leave me with God, and let Him teach me. I will take the words from the Lord and the reproof and reform their lives, but I must discharge my duty all the same. I will walk in humility before God, doing MY work for time and FOR ETERNITY. God has not given my brethren the work that He has given me... With a sorrow-burdened heart, I have performed my unpleasant duty to my dearest friends, not daring to please my self by withholding reproof, EVEN FROM MY HUSBAND, and I shall not be less faithful in warning others, whether they will hear or forbear. When I am speaking to the people.. I see their error and dangers and feel compelled to speak of what is thus brought before me. I dare not resist the Spirit of God.î (emphasis added) Note that Ellen White will be doing her work ěfor time and for eternity.î Apparently, she believes that we will still need her rebukes in Heaven. Anyone who joins the church, must, like her husband, submit to rigid, non-biblical requirements which she has made into matters of salvation. This attitude certainly appeals to people who enjoy rebuking others for their sin. These are the two quotes that were the final straw for a friend of mine who is no longer Adventist. Youíre giving a double message here. On the one hand, you say, But then, you counter it by saying, So I have to ask, ěobedientî to what? - or whom? Most of the SDA dietary laws come from Ellen White, not scripture. This is true, but Ellen White made it clear that obedience to her dietary laws is a matter of salvation. Counsels on Diet and Foods: ěAt the time the light of health reform dawned upon us, and since that time, the questions have come home every day, ëAm I practicing true temperance in all things?í ëIs my diet such as will bring me in a position where I can accomplish the greatest amount of good?í If we cannot answer these questions in the affirmative, we stand CONDEMNED before God, for He will hold us all responsible for the light which has shone upon our path.î p. 19-20. ěGod demands that appetites be cleansed, and that self-denial be practiced in regard to those things which are no good. This is a work that will have to be done before His people can stand before Him a perfected people.î p. 36. ěGrains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven.î p. 314. ěIs it not time that all should aim to dispense with flesh foods? How can those who are seeking to become pure, refined, and holy, that they may have the companionship of heavenly angels, continue to use as food anything that has so harmful an effect on SOUL and body?î p. 380. ěThe light God has given on health reform is FOR OUR SALVATION and the salvation of the world.î p. 461. And in Testimonies for the Church vol. 2, pg. 538. ěMothers, instead of seeking to give your daughters a musical education...Teach them all the mysteries of cooking. Show them that this is a part of their education and essential for them IN ORDER TO BECOME CHRISTIANS.î (emphasis added) A simple verse comparison should give a clear picture of what Jesus and Paul thought of the subject: Matt. 14:16-19; 15:11-17, 34-37; Mark 6:38-42; 7:15-19; 8:7-8; Luke 9:13; 10:8; 24:41-43; John 6:5-11; 21:9-13; Rom. 14:1-4, 10-20; 1 Cor. 10:25-28; Col. 2:16; 1 Tim 4:1-5. Besides eating fish, as a Jew, Jesus ate the Passover feast which included lamb, Ex. 12:3-8; Luke 2:41-42; John 2:23. ěI marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.î Galatians 1:6-9. Has Ellen White preached ěanother gospelî? Look at her quote from page 75 of CDF: ěThe Lord has given instruction that the gospel be carried forward; and the gospel includes health reform in all its phases...The gospel of health is to be firmly linked with the ministry of the word. It is the Lord ís design that the restoring influence of health reform shall be a part of the last great effort to proclaim the gospel message.î p. 75. Note that no supporting scripture is offered. Search the entire Bible. You will not find any ěgospel of health.î Any such gospel is ěanother gospel.î Every New Testament occurrence of the word health can be found in the following two verses: Acts 27:34; 3 John 1:2. Itís these plus a long list of other non-Biblical doctrines that has caused me & several others to leave. None of the following phrases or concepts can be found in the Bible, yet they can be found repeatedly throughout Ellen Whiteís writings, and echoed throughout the writings of other Adventist authors. Many of them are terms so well-used in the Adventist language as to be taken for granted as scripture among many Adventists. Any standard Exhaustive Concordance will reveal that they are completely unfounded in scripture. If you are a typical Adventist, you will still believe in all these concepts even after you have proven to yourself that it is impossible to find them in scripture, but at least then you will know your beliefs did not come from scripture. Angels need gold cards to get in and out of Heaven - Early Writings (EW), p. 39 ěBook of Deathî - GC p. 661 ěCeremonial lawsî - P&P p. 296; AA p. 189, 383, 387, 404-5 Christ had older brothers - DA chptr. 9 ěDoor of mercyî - GC p. 428-9 Eating meat forbidden - P&K p. 591 Ellen white is one the 144,000 chosen ones - EW p. 19 ěFinal atonementî - P&P p. 358 God deliberately ěcovered a mistakeî with His hand - GC p. 373 Grapes in the ark of the covenant - 1844 p. 146, 173 ěHaloî around the 4th commandment in the ark of the covenant - EW p.33 ěInvestigative judgementî - GC p. 428, 488 Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel - DA p. 99; P&K p. 572 Mark of the beast is going to church on Sunday - GC 445-450, 605; 1844 p. 174 ěMoral lawî - P&P p. 295; AA p. 387 ěthe Pattern Man" - Notebook Leaflets, The Church, Number 8, quoted in Selected Messages, Book 2, page 163 ěPre-Advent Judgmentî SDAB pg. 317 ěProbationî - P&K p. 276, 716; GC p. 428-9, 662 Prohibition against kindling fires on Sabbath only temporary - P&P p. 337 Sabbathbreakers shall not inherit the kingdom the God - 1844 p. 174 Salvation by tithing - 3 Test. p. 408 Sanctified by the Sabbath - RS 11 Satan our sin-bearer - GC p. 422, 485, 685, 673 Second chance for Satan - GC p. 495-6 Seal of God is the sabbath - GC p. 605, 640 ěSpirit of Prophecyî a synomym for Ellen White - 27FD #17 Spiritual Israelî - P&K p. 714-5. Without the law, we are free to commit every kind of sin - GC p. 585 1844 = 1844 and the Rise of Sabbitarian Adventism 2, 3 Test = Testimonies for the Church vol. 2, 3 27FD = 27 Fundamental Doctrines of Seventh Day Adventism AA = Acts of the Apostles DA = Desire of Ages CDF = Councils on Diet & Food EW = Early Writings GC = The Great Controversy P&K = Prophets & Kings P&P = Patriarchs & Prophets RS11 = Revilation Seminar, lesson 11 For all this thought, the single most compelling reason for leaving the church is doctrine #17 which is part of the Baptismal Certificate which you must sign that you agree to in order to become a member. ěThis gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lordís messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.î This last phrase should sound familiar to anyone acquainted with their Bibles. Compare it with what 2 Timothy 3:16 says of scripture, ěAll scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:î As I said, I cant' speak for everyone, but the people I know left for these reasons. Lynn W. |
