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Lydell
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can ya'll help me with some research. Other than the JW's, is there any other group who believes in soul sleep? I know the SDA's have always said that there is.
Darrell
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Church of God, 7th Day (or is it 7th Day Church of God?)
Their roots go back to the Millerite movement, like SDA. They split from SDA over Ellen White.
Joni
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is also a group who came out of "THE WAY" that believe in soul sleep. The book is called "Is THERE DEATH AFTER LIFE?" by Mark Graeser, John Lynn and John Schoenheit. I don't know what they call themselves. But they do not believe that Jesus is God. They believe He is the Son of God. That God was in Christ. They also have tongues, healing, etc. This was the group I studied with for a while, until I learned they did not believe Jesus is God.
Joni
Susan
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lydell, there's a former SDA who's now with a branch of WWCG (I think). I stumbled onto his website about a year ago. There were a couple of good articles there,("Let My People go" and "Ministering to SDA's") that were interesting. There was also some questionable stuff, like soul-sleep, on his site. This is where I last found something of his, hope it's still there. www.sabbath.com/donhawley/hawley16.htm

What about Branch Davidians? I have no idea if they're still around and I'm not sure what they would believe. They were into EGW I think.

Steve would probably be a good one to check with. Are you still around Steve? Hope everthing is o.k. with you. I'm still keeping your family in prayer!

In Christ,
Susan
Lydell
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh my word yes, I am familiar with that web site. There's some downright odd stuff there too!

Our testimonies are posted on a site that had a link to the one you mentioned. Actually, we have come about a million miles from where we were when we posted the testimonies....we were still keeping sabbath at the time. Oh well, the Lord continues to use that to prompt folks to get in touch with us.
Kme
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Lydell,

We studied with an independant group for a couple of years that believed in soul sleep. They are an off shoot from the former World Wide Church of God. They also keep the Holy Days and do not celebrate any of the pagan holidays, such as: Christmas, Easter, Halloween, some don't celebrate birthdays, Valentines Day, etc... They take the same stand on clean and unclean meats (even more so) than Adventists. No jello, marshmellows, some won't use gelatin capsules etc...

One of the couples there, had been raised Church of God 7th Day, and there were also some 7th Day Adventists as well. They didn't really stay though.

Interesting. They are much more focused on all this stuff than Christ. Thats why we left. It just seemed to me that if we had to spend so much time focused on all the things we shouldn't do that everyone else was doing, in order not to do it, there was something wrong. The people were great, and the fellowship wonderful. We still miss them, but I missed Christ!

Grace to all,
kme
Dennis
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

kme,

What is the name of the splinter group from the former Worldwide Church of God? As a former Adventist, I worship regularly with the local Worldwide Church of God. Their theological journey from a cult to mainstream Christianity is truly historic and miraculous.

If you like, feel free to email me at: fischerdj@msm.com You can find the WCG belief statements at: www.wcg.org My wife and I worship with them to honor and encourage their doctrinal changes. There are a few still in the change mode from legalism. Their 1995 doctrinal changes brought them fully into the evangelical paradigm. We are blessed each week as we worship with them. We indeed have bushels of commonalities with these wonderful, New Covenant Christians.

In His grace,

Dennis J. Fischer
Kme
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dennis,

I will e-mail you with that info. We have not checked into WWCOG yet. I hadn't really even thought of it since we left the other group. They of course were anti the changes since it is now main stream.

Grace to you,
kme
Billthompson
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dennis,

Does the WCG still meet on Saturday? I know they no longer see it as a requirement for salvation but I have wanted to ask someone if they still meet on Saturday. I am happy about the miraculous changes that they have made, too. I have prayed the same thing could happen in SDAism. I still have SDA relatives.

Bill Thompson
Colleentinker
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Dennis, I'm also curious about whether they still meet on Saturday. When I interviewed Joe Tkach in 1996 they were still meeting then, but he told me (paraphrasing now) that he and several of his colleagues were beginning to consider offering Sunday services just so they weren't subconsciouly keeping Sabbath as a safeguard against possibly being wrong. He admitted to having many of the reactions about leaving Sabbath that we experienced.

I highly recommend his book Transformed by Truth for everyone who has left a cultic or legalistic religion. It's available at Christian bookstores.

In His Freedom,
Colleen
Sherry2
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2000 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some do, some don't. They let each congregation come to their own decision in that area. There is also WCOG 7th day too.
Steve
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2000 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All,

Yes, Susan, I'm still around. However, having been booted out of my own home for having the mark of the beast ("keeping" Sunday), I'm not on-line as much as I was before.

Yes, there are a number of groups that believe in soul sleep.

The group that more publicly follows the teachings of Charles Taze Russell, Dawn Bible Students, hold to Soul Sleep. (Dawn Bible Students came out of a split with the Jehovah's Witnesses after the 7th volume of Scripture Studies was published. Russell died in, I think, 1931, in a train in Texas. I forget when Scripture Studies Vol. 7 was published.)

Most of the groups that teach soul sleep have many similarities with Jehovah's Witnesses. As Joni mentions above, about the group that came out of The Way, many of them teach that Jesus is not God. The founder of The Way, International, Victor Paul Wierwille, wrote a volume entitled Jesus Christ Is NOT God (with the word NOT in bright red letters.) That book turned my mind into a pretzel (for a short time.)

Many groups that teach soul sleep are Arians (which has always made me wonder if there's a connection.)

And yes, the Branch Davidians are still around. I'm not at my computer, so I can't put up their internet addresses right now, but they are online with their teachings.

After speaking out against them in the Albuquerque Central SDA church a number of years ago, I received a few hundered pages of their literature, anonymously, in the mail. I think I may have touched on someone's "sensibilities" when I spoke and the felt I needed to be straightened out.

As far as I remember, Branch Davidians do believe in soul sleep, but I didn't study their teachings in that area. I was mostly concerned with their teachings around Ezekiel 9, and their belief that they needed to be the one's used by God to kill off the erring SDAs and Former SDAs who had rejected the Present Truths.

As far as soul sleep goes, I'm not as convinced as I was that it is either a correct, or an important, doctrine. It is definitely worthy of discussion. But unlike many of my SDA friends, I no longer think that belief in an immediate afterlife is dabbling in spiritualism. There are too many statements by Paul that indicate something other than just a cessation of consciousness.

However, most groups that teach soul sleep have so much in common with Jehovah's Witnesses that I am leery of them. It often seems that with soul sleep comes so much more baggage than is unnecessary.

Without my library available, I can't enumerate a good list of the groups that teach soul sleep. But there are more out there.

God Bless,

Steve
Susan
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2000 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve, I can SO relate to the frustration of having your books unavailable or in storage. I know we're not suppossed to store up treasures here on earth, but I do treasure my library and am not willing to give up my attachment to them just yet. I don't feel "called" to do that, not sure I would obey the call anyway! I am generous about lending(inside I cringe and struggle to let go), but I actually keep a little notebook going of who has what. One time I lost about $800 dollars worth in a flood. Luckily the top boxes were spared. One would've thought I had lost precious heirlooms the way I cried!

Anyway, glad you're still around!

In Christ,
Susan
Dennis
Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen and Bill:

The WCG gives each congregation the option of worshipping on Saturday or Sunday or both days. Some larger WCG churches, like the one in Phoenix, AZ, meet on Saturdays AND Sundays to accommodate different preferences due to comfort zone, tradition, employment, remnants of legalism, etc. The Worldwide Church of God congregation, that my wife and I attend here in Lincoln, Nebraska, still meet on Saturdays. Some still struggle with adhering to the Old Covenant
mandates. The sister WCG group in Grand Island, Nebraska, just started worshipping only on Sundays. I heard there are a few that refuse to make this transition--they attend neighboring WCG churches that still meet on Saturdays.

I was recently asked to lead the PRAYERS OF THE PEOPLE(a prayer-meeting-type segment of the morning worship service). What makes PRAYERS OF THE PEOPLE such an inspiring segment of worship, is the fact that they never prayed publicly in the former WCG. They really delight in this service as babes in New Covenant Christianity. Yes, there are a few that still will not pray publicly. The pastor is very talented in slowly and patiently leading these dear people into mainstream Christianity.

Footwashing is now optional in the WCG. In our last Communion Service, footwashing was deleted. My wife and I share so many commonalities with these wonderful Christians. We feel the Lord led us to these people as we unitedly share a history of legalism. Although we meet on Saturdays, we do not observe the Sabbath(there are a few that still cling to various aspects of Sabbatarianism in private). Many in our group have expressed interest in Sunday services. Saturday services are ideal for us, being that we service Jewish clients in our cleaning business, on Sundays.

We honor and support these people for their historic doctrinal changes. Additionally, the leadership of the Worldwide Church of God is now working to change to an Episcopal-form of church government. I haven't read this thread in awhile, so please forgive me for taking this long to answer your questions.

Best Christian wishes,

Dennis J. Fischer
Dennis
Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ADDENDUM:

The Worldwide Church of God is studying the feasibility of a MODIFIED VERSION of an Episcopal-form of church government. No decision has been made at this time.

--DJF

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