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Patti
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I look around on different Christian (and SDA)forums, I see so many people who are RIGHT. They gleefully hit each other over the head with the TRUTH. And I have been guilty of the same. IMO, there is something very wrong with this picture. It reminds me of the disciples quarreling over who was to be the greatest (the "right-est" perhaps?) in the kingdom of heaven. I have no answers right now, just a single question: Is it possible that we Christians are doing more harm than good gallantly defending our "truths"?
Sherry2
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boy, that post hits home to another thread here, doesn't it? Yep, yep...tis true. It is human nature I think to want to get people to believe like you do. Is it pride? Is it the desire to belong in a group? Is it fear? Hmmm...all may be applicable. We don't seem to want people to grow in Christ at their own rates either...we want to cookie mold them to be like us, look like us.... Oh, and how I was certain I was right on Sabbath. And people were just not that "mature" as Christians if they didn't see that to be true. That's just an example. And it shows too that sometimes are most cherished beliefs that seem so right can be in fact wrong. When I left SDAism, the one thing I knew that I never would leave was the Sabbath. I couldn't believe some of the thoughts on Sabbath I read on this forum...Ha-ha :)...but I got to thinking...well, I've been wrong in other things. I at least need to surrender this belief to God, and retest things Scripturally. And if my belief is true, it will stand the test. Period. That's when I decided to purchase Dale's book "Sabbath in Crisis". Wow! That blew open the doors to texts I never saw before. And a whole different perspective - actually examining the covenants. That was new to me. Ah yes, we can do more harm than good gallantly defending our "truths". Seems like the most important emphasis in the NT was proclaiming Christ's death, resurrection, and the good news of that for our sins, and then secondly strongly emphasizing us to love one another, and how to do that. Hmmm...food for thought for me today. Thank you Patti.
Steve
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent point, Patti.

Only this past week I was confronted with my own idolatrous "rightness." I had always thought that I viewed all Christians as equals.

But after reading chapters 13 and 14 of Dale Ratzlaff's, Cultic Docrine, I realized that I lived the last 15 years of my life being "right" while everyone else (non-SDA) was "wrong." (I don't know how those two chapters relate to "being right," but they worked on me that way this past week.)

Although I believe that much of it was just below consciousness for me, I am realizing that it was present with me.

This realization has done two things for me. First, it brought some depression (as if I needed anymore right now!), and secondly, it brought great joy (which I really need right now.)

I've begun experiencing (not just a head-knowledge) that all Christians are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I've always believed that in my head, but my heart had a problem.

So what can be done for an old heart like mine?
Soften it up, with oil and wine.
The oil is You, Your Spirit of love.
Please wash me anew, in the wine of Your blood.

(That's a line from a Keith Green song, maybe paraphrased, and is a wonderful expression of what God's been doing to my heart lately.)

Perhaps being right is less important than being with the One Who IS Right.

I was just in Berean Christian Stores yesterday, purchasing a gift that some FAF folks made possible (as a birthday gift). As I looked around I was literally blown away. I had to hide behind one rack of books as tears filled my eyes.

I realized that there are SO MANY different interpretations of various subjects, so MANY different expressions of faith in music, so MANY coming from so MANY different angles of Christian faith. And although I realize that there are not only small differences, but perhaps some major differences represented there, I felt that on the whole, all those represented there are my sisters and brothers in Christ.

It was a profound experience.

We don't have to agree with everyone on everything to be a participating and contributing member of the Body of Christ.

The Invisible/Visible Glorious Church of Christ on earth is a mighty body.

God Bless,

Steve
Maryann
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Patti,

Yes this is something that has really been bothering me too.

There are so many wonderful Christian ministries out there and yet I hear such critisism of them.
These are the gospel teaching ministries TOO!! Not those "name it claim it" outfits.

My goodness gracious sakes alive, we have to get out the remant, only us, we only know the truth mind set we were taught all our lives.

To me, it really has been hillarious that so much of that VERY SAME mind set has shown up and transfered to the, "now that we have been set free of the bondage of SDAism and NOW HAVE the real Bible truth!"

Habits are hard to break aren't they?

Over the last couple days, I dreamed up a new thread. Look for it tonight.

Maryann
Patti
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are so right, Maryann. That was the reason I wrote my version of the parable of the Publican above. It is so easy to slip back into "the only true truth," and I find my self falling that way constantly.

How does one diplomatically and unemotionally address things that are patently false or anti-Christian? For example, in another conversation, a man is saying that because Jesus "emptied Himself" means that He was not God on earth, His intelligence was not any higher than any of ours, His schooling was sketchy, so there were obviously many things He did not understand. How does one address that UN-emotionally?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Patti
Chyna
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dear patti,

I understand how you feel. It's like blood goes thundering through my mind, totally outraged/aghast that someone could believe and tell others something that is false.

as the bible urges us, have an adequate defense to explain the error.

i remember reading about the early church how Apollo was teaching some doctrine that wasn't exactly correct so Priscilla and Aquinas? had to talk to him about it so it would straighten out.

in the past i have felt very angry that people would twist scripture however, I have come to realize that these people are so earnest in their wrong beliefs and that their deception is not deliberate most of the time.

with that in mind, try as patiently and lovingly to show what the Bible says. i guess i would recommend these days to take a stance, support it. but realize that long drawn out conversations will probably not work :).

love, Chyna
Patti
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Chyna, but Scripture makes no difference to this person, as it makes none to the dyed-in-the-wool SDA. He simply spins it away, taking off on a single scripture and developing an entire Christology from it. This is the danger of the proof-text method of Bible study. SDAs and other Arminians have perfected the proof-text method: They have a text cocked and ready to fire at every objection, but I seldom hear them quote more than a single text or text fragment at a time.

For now I have simply withdrawn from the conversation. It makes me very angry.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Patti
Chyna
Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i agree patti, if the other person isn't willing to use the bible correctly, in context with sound exegesis? then logic is useless on one whose mind is closed to it

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