| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Ken? | ||
| Max |
Ken will not or cannot answer this question on FAFF. PLEASE help him. | ||
| Ken |
Hi Max: I cannot separate the father and son as you can. And here are a few texts as to why I cannot. "I and my Father are one." John 10:30 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "1John 5:7 I can't think of anyplace in the Bible where God makes any one item "holy, blessed & hallowed". I can't imagine the Godhead being so out of harmony that they would not agree/dispute one another. (which I personally don't see) And you hane not proved to me differently. Ken Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 | ||
| Jtree |
Max, my Friend.... Actual Sabbatarians argument: The sabbath must be kept today because God said it is his HOLY day. Sabbatarian proof text: For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. Ex 20:11 Answers: The sabbath day differed in no way from other Jewish holy days: The sabbath is not the only holy day in the Old Covenant. All of these days are described as HOLY: GOD'S HOLY DAYS: 1.Passover: Ex 12:14-17; Lev 23:16,23 2.1st day of the 7th month: Lev 23:23-25; Neh 8:1,9,11 3.14th & 21st day of the 1st month: Ex 12:1,6,16 4.15th day of the 7th month: Lev 23:34-38 5.Sabbath day: Ex 20:11 Some of the same arguments used for the continuance of the sabbath can be made of the Passover feast: Read Exodus 12:1-19, Lev 23:1-7 Sabbatarians are not consistent! What reason do Sabbatarians give for not keeping the sign of circumcision? Sabbatarian answer: "because it was a sign only to Abraham and the Jews, not Christians" What reason do Sabbatarians give for not keeping the sign of Passover blood? Sabbatarian answer: "because it was a sign only for the Jews in Egypt, not Christians" Why should Christians not keep the sign of the sabbath? Our answer to Sabbatarians: "because it was a sign only for the Jews who came out of Egypt, not Christians" Speak the truth in LOVE "you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth" Jn 8:40 Joshua | ||
| Max |
Ken, Thanks for coming back on board. 1. I cannot separate the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 2. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is a verse not found in the Greek Scripture, but is a gloss added by a medieval scribe and recopied down through the years. 3. ^^ I can't think of anyplace in the Bible where God makes any one item "holy, blessed & hallowed". I can't imagine the Godhead being so out of harmony that they would not agree/dispute one another (which I personally don't see). And you have not proved to me differently. ^^ -- No response necessary. 4. For the balance of your post I refer you to Joshua's most excellent explanation at "By Jtree on Sunday, September 24, 2000 - 11:37 am." Many blessings, Max | ||
| Max |
Friend Bill Thompson, Does the blood of Christ -- unlike the blood of bulls and goats -- ever only just cover sins, or does it always cleanse them completely? | ||
| Ken |
Hi Max: Can anyone here not see a pattern? Creation ...6 days...7th Day rest...Why? Ten Commandments...Remember the 7th Day...Why? Jesus kept the Sabbath...Why? Jesus crucified...rested on the Sabbath...Why? I won't be surprised if Jesus returns on a friday so our first day with him will of course be Sabbath. Ken | ||
| Max |
Friend Ken again, ^^ Creation ...6 days...7th Day rest...Why? ^^ Record says only God rested. No record that Adam ever did. Why not? The time (Sinai) for for God-the-Son's chosen people to start doing so had not yet reached its fullness. ^^ Ten Commandments...Remember the 7th Day...Why? ^^ Only old covenant says to remember it, but it also says, Be circumcised. Why? ^^ Jesus kept the Sabbath...Why? ^^ Jesus broke the Sabbath and commanded others to do so. Why? ^^ Jesus crucified...rested on the Sabbath...Why? ^^ To finish fulfilling it as part of the imperfect and inferior old covenant and to make way for the new, better, perfect covenant, which is the very person of our God Jesus Christ. Thus is Jesus himself your Sabbath rest in verity (Hebrews 3&4). ^^ I won't be surprised if Jesus returns on a Friday so our first day with him will of course be Sabbath. ^^ While there is no such prophecy anywhere in Scripture, the coincidence would make no difference whatsoever. See Romans 14:5-6. Megablessings, Max | ||
| Patti |
Ken wrote: Creation ...6 days...7th Day rest...Why? Patti: Genesis says it was because He finished His work on the seventh day. Makes sense He would rest when the work was finished. BTW, He didn't only rest one day; He rested PERPETUALLY. He just started resting after He finished creating the world on the seventh day. (Did you also notice that it says, "He finished ON the seventh day"? Evidently He was still working on at least part of the seventh day. Ken: Ten Commandments...Remember the 7th Day...Why? Patti: As a sign for the children of Israel throughout their generations, just like circumcision, observance of the Passover, etc. Ken: Jesus kept the Sabbath...Why? Patti: "Think not I have come to destroy the law and the prophets, BUT TO FULFIL." Did Jesus accomplish His mission, Ken? Ken: Jesus crucified...rested on the Sabbath...Why? Patti: Actually, Ken, it never says that Jesus rested on the sabbath; it says his disciples did. In fact, it says that Jesus was busy preaching to the souls in hell. Now THERE'S an interesting text for you! Ken: I won't be surprised if Jesus returns on a friday so our first day with him will of course be Sabbath. Patti: A Friday where? In America? Australia? Japan? Heaven? Well, it couldn't be heaven because there are no Fridays in heaven. There is no night. Ken, there is no salvation in observing a day, any day. There is only salvation in entering into the rest that is only found in Jesus Christ. Let us therefore strive to enter into His rest that we may not fall because of unbelief. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Max |
Friend Ken yet again, An addendum to previous post: When God-the-Son rested on the seventh day of creation he was alive. But when God-the-Son rested in the tomb on the seventh day he was dead. And the meaning of this striking contrast is not lost on me. When God-the-Son resurrected on the first day, he rose AS the living Sabbath rest, leaving behind the old one-day-per-week Sabbath rest in the grave forever! Wow! Again, megablessings, Max | ||
| Max |
Friend Ken a third time this evening, Second addendum to my previous post: According to John 5, both God-the-Son AND God-the-Father resumed working after the seventh-day rest of creation week. And they BOTH continued working on the Sabbath. Proof: John 5:1-20 RBV: ^^ Later on there was a feast of he Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem, by the sheepgate, a BATHING POOL called in Hebrew, BETHZATH, with five entrances in which a crowd of invalids lay -- waiting for the stirring of the water. For at intervals an angel descended into the pool and stirred the water. Whoever got in first after the agitation of the pool enjoyed healing, no matter what ailment he suffered. ONE MAN THERE had suffered from an infirmity for 38 years. When Jesus noticed him lying there, He asked him, knowing he had been there for a long time, "Do you want to get well?" The invalid replied, "I have no one, Sir, to put me into the bathing pool right after it has been disturbed; while I am going another gets in ahead of me." JESUS TOLD HIM, "GET UP, PICK UP YOUR MAT AND WALK." INSTANTLY THE MAN WAS WELL; HE PICKED UP HIS MAT AND WALKED. NOW THAT WAS ON THE SABBATH DAY. SO THE JEWS SAID TO THE HEALED MAN "THIS IS THE SABBATH AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR MAT." HE TOLD THEM, "THE ONE WHO HEALED ME, HE HIMSELF SAID TO ME, 'PICK UP YOUR MAT AND WALK.'" They questioned him, "Who is the person who told you to pick it up and walk?" But the healed man did not know who it was; for Jesus had withdrawn because there was a crowd in the place. Afterward Jesus came across him in the temple and said to him, "You are now enjoying health; stop sinning or something worse will happen to you." The man went off and told the Jews IT WAS JESUS WHO HAD HEALED HIM. FOR THIS REASON THE JEWS PERSECUTED JESUS BECAUSE HE DID THESE THINGS ON THE SABBATH. BUT HE ANSWERED THEM, "MY FATHER WORKS TILL NOW AND SO I WORK." For this reason the Jews were more eager than ever to kill Him, since He not only BROKE THE SABBATH but also called God His own Father and thus made himself equal to God. Then Jesus replied to them, "I truly assure you that the Son is not able TO DO ANYTHING by Himself, but only what He sees the Father DOING; whatever He DOES, the Son DOES in the same way. For the Father loves the Son and shows Him everything He Himself DOES, and He will show Him still greater DEEDS than these, so that you will marvel. ^^ Summary: Both God-the-Son and God-the-Father were working on the Sabbath. John witnesses that they did so, that they broke the Sabbath while doing so, and commanded an Israelite to do so -- ON THE SABBATH. Gigablessings, Max | ||
| Max |
Hey buddy Ken! We're all waiting for your next slam-dunk! Now you're not going to go and disappoint all your fans, are you? Are you? Pal Max | ||
| Max |
Ken? | ||
| Max |
Sigh! I guess ol' Ken's tossed in the sponge. No reason any more for me to stay up, then. Guess I'll turn in too. Night all! | ||
| Max |
Morning Ken! Up and at 'em! I'll be checking in on you today! Wanna see those diamonds of wisdom sparkle! Have a great one! Old Max | ||
| Max |
HEY KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN! You still haven't answered my questions: 1. Only the old covenant says to remember the Sabbath, never the new. The old covenant also says, Be circumcised. Why? 2. Jesus broke the Sabbath and commanded others to do so. Why? If you snooze, you looze. Waiting patiently, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
HEY KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN AGAIN! Oops, forgot to note that you forgot to answer still another of my questions: The holy record says only God rested on the seventh day of creation week. There is no record anywhere in Scripture that Adam ever did. Why? | ||
| Max |
Ken, Ken, Are you in? Questions three Await just thee. 1. Only the old covenant says, Remember the Sabbath. The new covenant never does. But the old covenant also says, Be circumcised. Why? 2. Jesus broke the Sabbath and commanded others to do so. Why? 3.The holy record says only God rested on the seventh day of creation week. There is no record anywhere in Scripture that Adam ever did. Why? | ||
| Max |
Ken, by failing to respond you risk losing your world-class title: Defender of the SDA Faith! | ||
| Max |
Ken, you also risk losing your tithe: Chief Defender of the SDA Faith on FAFF. |
