| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
TO THE EARLY CHURCH CIRCUMCISION, SABBATH-KEEPING, TITHING AND HAM-SHUNNING WERE ALL PART OF A SINGLE, INSEPARABLE PACKAGE. 1. The Pharisees and other Jews who were circumcised, kept the Sabbath, paid tithe and shunned ham were called UNBELIEVERS. 2. The Gentile Christians who were not circumcised, did not keep the Sabbath, paid no tithe but did eat ham were called BELIEVERS. 3. The handful of Sabbath-keeping Pharisees and other Jews who WERE believers tried to force the Gentile Christians to start practicing circumcision, Sabbath-keeping, tithe paying and ham shunning. 4. Paul battled them to a standstill and took up the cause with the earliest apostolic church leadership -- headed by James -- in Jerusalem. 5. James ruled, No, Gentile believers did not have to. All they had to do was to follow the Law of Noah (in addition, of course, to the superior and perfect Law of Jesus) -- but never ever the inferior and imperfect Law of Moses. 6. Neither circumcision nor Sabbath-keeping nor tithe-paying nor ham-shunning is ever preached or taught anywhere in the New Testament. 7. Nor is there anywhere any record at all of Gentile converts ever beginning to practice circumcision, Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying or ham-shunning . 8. By 100 AD probably well over 99% of the church membership were Gentile BELIEVERS did not practice these "shadows pointing to Jesus." Max of the Cross | ||
| Jtree |
Max, I took "liberty" and posted the above message, this is the RESPONSE we got from the Friends. He said>You say an awful lot...yet offer no Scripture to substantiate your statements, is it because you have none? Even satan knows better than that! I do expect honesty and accuracy from those who make statements such as yours. If you cannot do both then retract." | ||
| Max |
Hi Joshua, Of course you had permission, which I gave to you a long time ago. As to the response you (or, rather, I) got, I offer three points: 1. I offer the entire New Testament as Scripture to substantiate my statements. 2. In many previous posts here on FAFF I have offered a great plenty of specific Scriptural references in honesty and accuracy. And the Friends are welcome to visit this site and examine them. Furthermore, I will continue to so post -- here -- though not on other forums at this time. 3. As Martin Luther said 550 years ago, "I cannot and I will not retract, so help me God!" Max of the Cross | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
I was reading this and had a question. How come before Sinai there was a distinction between clean and unclean animals given to Noah? I thought that was just for the Israelites? Please answer anyone. Genesis 7 1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made." 5 And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him. 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Pheeki, I don't know exactly where the concepts of "clean" and "unclean" originated, but God did tell Noah to take more "clean" animals into the ark than unclean so they would have resources for sacrifices. Whether or not they ate the meat is not really stated. When they exited the ark, however, God changed the human diet. In Genesis 9:3-4, God says to Noah, "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just a I gave you the green plants, I now give you everthing. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it." When God formed Israel, the concept of clean and unclean became important, and it definitely influenced food laws. But when the council of Jerusalem established the guidleines for Gentile Christians, it reverted back to this law God gave Noah: they were not to eat blood or the meat of strangled animals (which would contain blood). (see Acts 15) Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
That text, Gen.9:3-4 is the proof text that one of my super SDA kin uses to prove we should be vegetarian. How can this be, you may ask. Well, she says that proves we should be vegetarian because no matter how long or thouroughally we cook the meat we can NEVER cook out all the blood. BTW, this relative has a good position at a SDA college as the diatition doing the menus for the folks who eat the cafeteria food. |
