| Author | Message | ||
| Rayna |
I do believe in civil judgment in the world for inappropiate behavior. We must have laws of the land and a court system. Also in church we must have judgment for inappropiate behavior, but our eternal salvation and others is not to be judged by anyone but God and Jesus. We cannot read the heart even though the words and works are there. We need to judge righteous judgment. If there is wrong doing it should be brought forward by two or three witnesses. Read John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." "The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." God is merciful and I commit my judgment into his hands, sinner though I am. He alone knows my heart and I kneel at the foot of the cross and claim Jesus as my Saviour and my Righteousness before Him now and in the judgment day. We need to leave others there also by intercessory prayer. God is merciful to the sinner. | ||
| Max |
Rayna, As to your observation, "I feel that our works are nothing to look at and brag about," I agree completely. More later. | ||
| Max |
Rayna, As to this point of yours, "I still say we should not look to others for and judge them by their works for proof that they are Christians," I also agree. I would add, though, that we SHOULD look to others and judge them by their works for guidance as to whether or not we should "cast our pearls" before them or give to them "that which is holy." If we fail to so judge we are disobeying our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. | ||
| Max |
Rayna, You spoke of a philandering pastor of a large congregation who was caught in adultery. Then you said he "has since been removed from his position." Did not the agents of his removal have to judge him? Should they have quoted, "Judge not that ye be not judged," and then let him continue status quo? | ||
| Max |
Rayna, There is nothing else in your two above posts with which I would disagree in the slightest. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
To everyone regarding the casting of pearls before hogs and giving that which is holy unto dogs: I attended a large church a few years ago in a small town with a christian college. The head pastor had a beautiful, college-age daughter whom he and his wife had sheltered and raised very naively (in my judgment). This sincere girl went to New York City for a school year to engage in missionary work there. She befrended and witnessed to a young man about her own age who became obsessed with her. She continued to see him and even let him visit her alone in her apartment in order to give him Bible studies and to pray with him. Little did she realize that he was after something other than just her faith. And so, when he made what she considered inappropriate advances she -- in a state of shock -- resisted him. Too late. The police found her raped and murdered body on the floor of her apartment several days later. This was all published in her hometown newspaper and in the student newspaper of the college where she had planned to graduate the following year. Now I personally think this was a case of a sincere Christian casting her pearls before a hog and giving that which is holy unto a dog. Am I wrong? What do you think? Max of the Cross | ||
| Rayna |
Max, sounds like you and I agree that swine do not always look like swine, do not always smell like swine, and behave like swine. The girl was deceived by his so called Christian demeanor. Just like all those people in that church were fooled by this pastor's so called Christian behaviour and so called Christian teaching. You just cannot always tell swine by the way they appear and act, even by their works. It takes time. Also most important to find out what a person truly believes. Righteousness before God by works or righteousness before God in Jesus. I can tell you that when temptation comes and one believes in righteousness by works before God, he will fall. But if one believes in righteousness by faith in Jesus and the great loss he will have if he yields to temptation, he will think about it. What a loss for a few moments of sinful pleasure. The loss of eternal life and Jesus. We will all be faced with the choice, Jesus or our sin? Which will we chose. I remember that choice was made at Calvary when the people chose Barabus,(not sure i spelled that right). Pilate asked "What shall i do with Jesus?" They replied "Crucify him!!' What a choice they made and we will be faced with that same choice in our lives. We are saved by His merits alone before God. And Max, go back and read my posts. Apparently you missed one of them. But I still say we cannot condemn anyone to hell. That is left up to God and Jesus. | ||
| Rayna |
We can all be deceived by Satan easily. He comes in all disguises. Staying close to Jesus and keeping in our hearts the truth of "righteousness before God in Jesus" will help us to remain faithful. The cost of this gift is not comprehended by us. And the benefits of serving God are worth whatever we have to give up or do without in this life. Whoever has Jesus has all things. God could give no greater gift to mankind. We are saved by His mercy by faith in His gift of Jesus to our world. Faith unites the sinner to Jesus. He takes all our sins and gives us His righteousness and eternal life with Him forever. What a gift! | ||
| Rayna |
One more thing I might add. I have had more than one chance at this message of righteousness by faith before God in Jesus. I truly believe that God is very merciful and He never turns away from us even when we mess up our lives. We turn away from Him and make the final choice. But He is always waiting if we will return and repent. His mercy endureth forever. "He knows our frame that we are just dust." "He has not dealt with us after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.Psalm 103. Thank you God for your mercy to me in Jesus. | ||
| Max |
Hi Rayna, You wrote, "I still say we cannot condemn anyone to hell. That is left up to God and Jesus." I agree absolutely. Jesus said, Give not that which is holy to dogs, nor cast thy pearls before swine lest they trample them underfoot and turn again to rend you. He did not say, Condemn them to hell. He said, don't attempt to share the gospel with them. This takes an exercise of good judgment. Furthermore, in another place Jesus said to shake the dust from off thy feet when people will not "hear thee." Shaking the dust from one's feet isn't the same as condemning them to hell either. This also takes an exercise of good judgment. The young Christian lady in the story was a college senior with lots of Bible classes under her belt. Evidently she was not taught those lessons, for she failed to judge this young man appropriately. Incidentally, he was NOT a Christian. He was pretending to be interesting in the young lady's Christianity in order to carry out a truly evil plan -- to seduce her. When seduction didn't work -- he had misjudged the strength of her Christian experience -- he became enraged, battered her, raped her, then murdered her. Now this is just my opinion, but I think she was wrongly taught in this SDA college, taught what so many SDAs believe, even College professors, that "Judge not that ye be not judged" means never judge anybody any time anywhere! And she paid for that false doctrine with her life! | ||
| Max |
Rayna, You posted, ^^ I have had more than one chance at this message of righteousness by faith before God in Jesus. I truly believe that God is very merciful and He never turns away from us even when we mess up our lives. We turn away from Him and make the final choice. But He is always waiting if we will return and repent. His mercy endureth forever. "He knows our frame that we are just dust." "He has not dealt with us after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.Psalm 103. Thank you God for your mercy to me in Jesus. ^^ Excellently said. I would go even one step further. I don't believe we do make the "final choice," as you say. I believe that if we turn away from God and stay away from him, determedly and knowingly, then the prophecy will be fulfilled in us that he, our God Jesus Christ, NEVER knew us! God bless you all the time, Max of the Cross | ||
| Rayna |
My original statement was that one cannot always tell if a person is a Christian or not by his works. Therefore, it is wrong to judge someone's Christianity by his works. There are problems where one is sinning openly and must be brought to account, but still we do not have the right to judge that person to hell. Only Jesus and God have the right to say "I never knew you". And who can say they have no messed up in their lives even as Christians. Who can say they keep the 10 commandments??? Noone!! Our only hope is in the mercy of God provided for us in Jesus with the forgivenss of all our sins, yesterday today and forever by the sacrifice of Himself. Also God provided by His righteousness the righteousness of Christ to be imputed to all that accept Him by faith. This is our only merit before God now and forever. Our works do not contribute to our justification before God. They are sinful at best, our only hope is in God's mercy to the sinner. I am going to recommend the books "The History of the Reformation" by D'Aubigne for the truth of Righteousness by Faith. It can be purchsed at "Kregel.com" under used books. It is so enlightening because of the so-called gospel of works today instead of the gospel of righteousness by faith. Here is a statement from the first volume as there are 5 volumes in the set. ""For we cannot exalt the priests of the church or the works of the faithful without lowering christ in his twofold quality of Mediator and Redeemer." This has truly been an eye opening experience to read these books and a true blessing. My faith is in God's gift to me in Jesus and with His help I will remain faithfulto the end and hope to witness to to others of this wonderful truth. | ||
| Rayna |
By the way, I believe this gospel of Righteousness by Faith will be preached to all the world, even the swine. Yes, it will be trampled on but it is still to be presented. God sends his rain on the just and the unjust. I do believe that one cannot continue to stand and witness to one that refuses this message, and I will make a decision to shake the dust off my feet and move on, but I will not condemn that person. That is for God to do. Blessings to you Max in the study of Gods word Rayna | ||
| Max |
Thank you, Rayna, for that truly beautiful testimony. In fact, I think I may have "messed up" by not listening more carefully to your earlier posts. | ||
| Rayna |
Max, all I can say is, we are all sinners which gives us a right to claim the righteousness by faith imputed to us by God when we accept Jesus. I say again the publican went down justified before God as he acknowledged himself to be a sinner, not the Pharisee that stood telling all of his wonderful works. I will always claim to be a sinner and my works whatever they are, are not worthy to be mentioned. Jesus is only worthy and the glory all belongs to him. He is the friend of sinners, and I am one. I am not committing known sin, but I am still a sinner. I continually fall short of the glory of God. Thank you God for the wonderful gift of Jesus and your mercy to us all as sinners. Thank you for eternal life, righteousness and for the fact that death has been overcome. It gives us wonderful hope in this life. Rayna | ||
| Max |
Hi, Rayna, You surprised me a bit replying so soon at this hour. Would you include holiness, perfection and sinlessness as well as righteousness in your testimony? We are all sinners which gives us a right to claim the righteousness, holiness, perfection and sinlessness by faith imputed to us by God when we accept Jesus. I do, since it is all in and of our God Jesus Christ anyway. If we can claim His imputed righteousness, then why can't we also claim his imputed holiness, perfection and sinlessness by faith as well? I would appreciate your opinion, since I do respect it. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
HI Rayna again, You wrote, ^^My original statement was that one cannot always tell if a person is a Christian or not by his works. Therefore, it is wrong to judge someone's Christianity by his works.^^ I agree completely that we should NEVER judge anyone's Christianity by his works. Jesus never said that. I never said that. Maryann never said that. The kind of judgment that I am talking about has to do with "the affairs of this life," not the next. The young woman who was murdered should have made an "affairs of this life" judgment and not allowed the young man into her apartment. Period. Good judgment. She should have continued to witness to him within the confines of the missionary program in which the witnessing took place in a structured environment with lots of other Christian people around. Are we agreed on that point at least? Max | ||
| Terry |
Hi Rayna, How is one deceived by Satan, as you say, "so easily"? What do you mean? My understanding of Scripture tells me that Satan had been defeated, that Christ put an end to sin at the Cross-for those who believe, that we are no longer sinners if we are in Christ, that sinning is living in the flesh/trying to obey the Ten Commandments/Law of Moses, that we have been crucified with Christ to sin and the Law and resurrected unto perfection through Christ, We are adopted into the kingdom of God, and now seated with Christ in Heavenly places! We certainly do sin, but God sees not our sins, as He sees us through His Prescious Son, Jesus...you say that you don't consciously sin...wow! I wish I could say that. I have wicked thoughts and, sometimes wicked behavior! I thank my God that He doesn't judge me based on that! He sees me as "perfect," "holy," and being "sanctified" moment by moment. I am SO thankful that Jesus lived, perfectly, for me and died, sinnlessly, for me. I would be lost, totally without my Jesus' Blood. Terry | ||
| Rayna |
Terry, I totally appreciate your comment as your belief is the same as mine. I should have said that I am not committing open sin, but yes, I am a sinner and all I do is sin, even the good that I may try and do. I am only accepted of God because of the imputed righteousness of Jesus when I accepted Him by faith as my Savour. I believe I am perfect, sinless and righteous in Him. In myself I am a sinner. God accepts me as a sinner and declares me righteous before the universe because I have accepted His son Jesus. That is my belief and did not mean to confuse anyone. | ||
| Patti |
Hi, Rayna! Good to see you here. You mentioned the parable of the publican and the Pharisee. I find that is a very interesting parable. Brinsmead opened my eyes to a very significant, often overlooked, point in that short parable. The Pharisee gave GOD the glory and the credit for his own good works. He said, "I thank YOU, God, that I am not as other men are." We can NEVER use our works as an indication of or a foundation for our salvation. All our righteousnessess remain filthy rags until the day we die or the Lord comes. Jesus came to save sinners. The moment we cease to be a sinner, we cease to need our Savior. As for pearls and swine, you are right, we need to be very careful in our classification of human beings. After all, Jesus said that the prostitutes and the publicans, certainly the swine of Jewish society, were entering the kingdom ahead of the religious ones. If we are among the religious ones, the ones who claim to be chosen by God, then we need to do some serious considering of His words. As for judging the theology of others, we have a very simple directive: If anyone (even an angel from heaven) preaches a different gospel from the one Paul preached to the Galatians, they should be shunned. The Gospel is the acid test for Truth. Nothing but the Gospel. The Gospel plus nothing. The Gospel is as good as it gets! Grace and peace, Patti |
