| Author |
Message |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 12:16 am: |     |
Ya know Max, that question didn't even enter my head at the time. I was caught off guard I guess. I will ask that. I did however, point out verses that says the law was done away with along with its ordinances. I was told that the ordinances were in fact done away with but not the law. It was my attempt to prove to them from Scripture that it was the law with ordinances. Would you please tell me where the verse is that actually states the law, 'engraved in stone', is what is being talked about. To save my life I couldn't even think where that was in Scripture. Yet I know it is there as I've read it over and over. Infact, it was that verse that confirmed everything I had read with regards to the law. I am blank even as I type as to where that is located in Paul's writings.
It was amazing though how God works because there were verses I didn't know I knew that I pointed out. It had to be the Holy Spirit. Have you ever had that happen to you?
Thank you.
God bless,
Denise |
Max
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 12:38 am: | |
NIV 2 Corinthians 3:2 You yourselves are our
letter, written on our hearts, known and read
by everybody.
3 You show that you are a letter from Christ,
the result of our ministry, written not with ink
but with the Spirit of the living God, not on
tablets of stone but on tablets of human
hearts.
4 Such confidence as this is ours through
Christ before God.
5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to
claim anything for ourselves, but our
competence comes from God.
6 He has made us competent as ministers of
a new covenant--not of the letter but of the
Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which
was engraved in letters on stone, came with
glory, so that the Israelites could not look
steadily at the face of Moses because of its
glory, fading though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even
more glorious?
9 If the ministry that condemns men is
glorious, how much more glorious is the
ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now in
comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was fading away came with
glory, how much greater is the glory of that
which lasts! |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 1:29 am: | |
Max, thank you so much for reminding where that is located in the Bible. I was looking in 1 Cor. 3 and in Colossians and of course with a time constraint as sometimes others get a little edgy when I'm searching for a Scripture. This Scripture is now logged in my brain.
God Bless,
Denise |
Jtree
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 6:58 am: | |
Max, here is what EGW states concerning Exodus 16:29, me not being a FRIEND, can you tell us what is wrong with Ol' Ellen's teaching?
"verse 29. See. The patience of God toward His stubborn people is amazing, and teaches an
important lesson to us who tend to be impatient. Instead of always punishing Israel for their repeated murmurings and acts of disobedience, God condescends to reason with them, explaining the purpose of His requirements. The Sabbath was a holy day of rest, with which they were not to tamper; hence, the double portion of food the day before.
Abide ye every man. The Israelites were directed to remain in camp on the Sabbath, and not to go
out for manna or for any other purpose. Their time on that day was to be spent in rest at home and in
meditation upon sacred themes. God had already instructed Israel to assemble for worship on days
designated as ìholyî (ch. 12:16), a practice that was consistently applied to other ìholyî days (see
Lev. 23:2ñ4, 7, 8, 21, 24, 27, 35ñ37). In postexilic times the Jews set up and enforced strict regulations concerning the leaving of cities or villages on the Sabbath. No one was permitted to travel farther than 2,000 cubits, or approximately two thirds of a mile. In the NT this distance is commonly referred to as ìa sabbath dayís journeyî (Acts 1:12). Endless, man-made Sabbath regulations have been strictly followed by orthodox Jews even since Bible times, with the result that the Sabbath, designed by God to be a delight (Isa. 58:13), became a burden.
30. The people rested. Finding no manna Sabbath morning, and rebuked for going out to find it, the
people began to rest on the Sabbath day.
SDA Bible Commentary" |
Jtree
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 7:25 am: | |
Clarify something. "Me not a FRIEND" meaning, I'm not an Adventist, nor a former, but a spouse of a former. |
Max
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 9:52 am: | |
Morning friend Joshua,
Concerning the SDABC "explanation" for the
"do not leave your place" command, here's
what comes to my mind:
1. There's too much speculation in the
passage and not enough reliance on the
available archaeological, historical and
scriptural data.
2. The "Sabbath-day's journey" was closer to a
half mile than two-thirds of a mile.
3. ^^The Israelites were directed to remain in
camp on the Sabbath, and not to go out for
manna or for any other purpose.^^
To interpret a Scripture which clearly says,
"remain every man of you in his place, let no
man go out of his placed on the seventh day"
(RSV)
as
"The Israelites were directed to remain in
camp on the Sabbath"
is sheer sleight-of-hand sophistry and another
example of SDA willingness to "say anything
to get elected" by gullible Protestants who
"know neither the Scriptures nor the power of
God" and are thus fair game for such trickery.
3. Nowhere in Scripture is there a "Sabbath
day's journey" command. That was one of the
"traditions of men" that Jesus thundered
against. There is only a reference to that
man-made tradition in the New Testament.
4. What was designed by God to be a "delight"
to people just out of slavery, which forced
them to work on the seventh day, was the
Sabbath itself. The Fourth Commandment
was thus A LABOR LAW.
The Jews LIBERALIZED this labor law by
starting a "tradition of man" called "the
Sabbath day's journey" which, as you know,
allowed people to BREAK the Exodus 16:29
law.
And our friends the Adventists have siezed on
this anomaly to deceive people into thinking
that going to church, for example, on the
Sabbath is KEEPING rather than BREAKING
the Exodus 16:29 law.
Conclusion: SDAs continue to do exactly what
the Jews were doing: finding ways to break
the law of God.
Thus they fulfill the prophecies of Paul that
said God put the law there to show people that
they cannot keep it, to point people to Christ
(who broke the Sabbath laws by EXCEEDING
them in righteousness) who declares us
righteous and sinless.
In other words, Exodus 16:29 shows that
SDAs are legalists of the highest order and
distressingly in need of the gospel.
Max of the Cross |
Jtree
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 10:18 am: | |
Max, that was awsome....clap clap clap.
My hat off to you Brother. |
Max
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 7:42 pm: | |
What do you mean, Joshua? |
Bruceh
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 8:24 pm: | |
Max
That was great.
Bruce Heinrich |
Max
| | Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 11:46 pm: | |
Joshua,
Do you think this is some kind of contest? I
know that Bruce is sincere because I've
known him personally for about a year. But I
would really like an answer to my question to
you.
Your brother in Christ,
Max |
Jtree
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 9:26 am: | |
Max, I have known Bruce over a 1 1/2. What I was saying the response to the SDABC was very very nicely put. And I appreciated it very much, I gave an AMEN, and clapped very well to show my appreciation to your clarification. Again thank you.
Your brother in Christ, Also!
Joshua |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 1:16 pm: | |
Thanks Joshua,
But I merit no clapping. As I've said a number
of times on this web site, I am driven. This is
something that God in his sovereignty has
driven me -- as he did Johah so long ago -- to
do.
WE Matthew 5: 14 `You are like light in the
world. A city built on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 So also with a lamp. People do not light a
lamp and put it under a basket. But they put it
on the place for a lamp. Then all the people in
the house can see its light.
16 So, let your light shine to all people. Then
they will see the good things you do. And they
will praise your Father in heaven.'
Your brother in Christ, |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 1:59 pm: | |
Ps. Praise your FATHER in heaven, not YOU.
Scripture, my friend, Scripture will never lead
you astray. |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 5:38 pm: | |
Some come to the FAF web site because they
have been shunned by their families and
friends still in Adventism and especially by
their Adventist congregations. They need help,
fellowship, prayer, time to vent and cry, and
most of all to feast abundantly at the gospel
table with like-minded Christians.
For them FAF can serve as a kind of half-way
house. Most of these then move on to local
grace congregations in non-Adventist
churches and don't visit FAF as much here
anymore because they don't need to.
Others of us stay here in order to help those in
such transition.
Still others use FAF as a vehicle to preach the
gospel. A paraphrase of Matthew 10:5-10
shows why and how:
^^These FAFers Jesus sent out with the
following instructions: "DO NOT go among the
Protestants or enter any town of the Catholics.
But go rather to the Seventh-day Adventists.
And as you go, preach this message: 'The
kingdom of heaven is near.'
Heal the sick. Raise the dead. Cleanse those
who have leprosy. Drive out demons. Freely
you have received, freely give. Do not take
along any gold or silver or copper in your belts;
take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or
sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his
keep."^^
Who among us has heard this summons?
Max of the Cross |
Bruceh
| | Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 7:27 pm: | |
Jtree
How have things been going for you and your web
sight, I have not been there for about a year.
Bruce HEINRICH |
Darrell
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 11:12 am: | |
In Col 2:16 Paul may have meant let no one judge you about whether or not you observe a sabbath, or he may have meant let no one judge you about how you observe a sabbath. In the absence of a definitive answer about what he meant, I assume he meant both. It does not make sense to me to try to apply old covenant regulations to Christians under the new covenant who for whatever reason and in whatever manner observe sabbath. Isn't this the same as the sabbatarian condemning the non-sabbatarian? |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 1:22 pm: | |
I think you're right, Darrell. I too think he meant
both. The issue is not what the believer does
in relation to time (1/7th of a week), but what
he does in relation to God and to other
believers (not judging them).
NIV Romans 14:5-6. "One man considers one
day (Friday or Saturday or Sunday) more
sacred than another; another man considers
every day alike. Each one should be fully
convinced in his own mind. He who regards
one day as special, does so to the Lord."
The same is true of food. NIV Colossians
2:16. "Do not let anyone judge you by what you
eat or drink."
Expanded in NIV Romans 14:1-4. "Accept him
whose faith is weak, without passing
judgment on disputable matters. One man's
faith allows him to eat everything [NOT
excluding pork offered to idols], but another
man, whose faith is weak, eats only
vegetables [a "safe" practice, since vegetables
were not offered to idols. Paul's NOT talking
about veganism / vegetarianism here]. The
man who eats everything must not look down
on him who does not, and the man who does
not eat everything must not condemn the man
who does, for God has accepted him. Who are
you to judge someone else's servant? To his
own master he stands or falls. And he will
stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." |
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