| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Matthew 7: 1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. 13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash." 28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law. --NIV | ||
| Max |
DO NOT MERELY LISTEN TO THE WORD, AND SO DECEIVE YOURSELVES. DO WHAT IT SAYS. 19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. 26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. --James 1 NIV | ||
| Max |
PAUL WRITES SOME THINGS WHICH IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, AS THEY DO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. 11 What kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. --2 Peter 3 NIV | ||
| Max |
PAUL: BEING UNDER GRACE MEANS BEING SLAVES TO RIGHTEOUSNESS 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. --Romans 6:14-18 NIV. | ||
| Max |
GOD FILLS BELIEVERS WITH BOTH HIS HOLY SPIRIT AND WITH JOY 51 So they (Paul and Barnabas) shook the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium. 52 And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit. --Acts 13:51-52 NIV. | ||
| Max |
PAUL SAYS HE STRIVES TO KEEP HIS CONSCIENCE CLEAR Speaking to the Roman governor Felix in Caesarea, Paul says: "I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man. --Acts 24:14-16 NIV. | ||
| Max |
PAUL TELLS PHILIPPIAN BELIEVERS TO CONTINUE TO WORK OUT THEIR SALVATION AS GOD WORKS IN THEM Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. PAUL TELLS THEM TO "BECOME BLAMELESS" SO HE COULD BOAST OF HIS LABOR FOR THEM 14 Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe 16 as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. --Philippians 2:12-16 NIV | ||
| Max |
PAUL STRUGGLES TO WIN RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD 12 Not that I have already obtained all this [readiness for resurrection], or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. 15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. --Philippians 3:12-15 NIV | ||
| Max |
PAUL POUNDS HIS BODY AND MAKES IT HIS SLAVE IN ORDER TO BE FIT ENOUGH TO WIN AS MANY CONVERTS TO CHRIST AS POSSIBLE Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. --1 Corinthians 9:24-27 NIV | ||
| Pat |
Dropping by I notice ìMax of the Crossî, and I am curious about it. Since this is a ìformer SDAî list, I am wondering if you, Max, went into Catholicism from the SDAs? Your ìof the Crossî sig sounds like a Catholic nomenclature. The soteriological doctrines of the two churches are the same ñ ìFaith without WORKS is dead ì ñ accent on ìworksî. Dr. Gene Scott, church historian, has shown some interesting facts down through the centuries. When the church was ìmajoringî on the epistles of Paul, it flourished. When James became the pet biblical author, the church stagnated. I would like to suggest, having come from the ìfaith without works is deadî religion, that you, Max, do as I have done. Begin a study by going to a concordance ñ any ñ and simply count the times the word ìfaithî is used in the New Testament. Crudenís has it divided into ìfaithî, ìby faithî, ìin faithî, ìthrough faithî, ìyour faithî, ìtheir faithî, ìthy faithî. For those who are concerned with ìbalanceî, there are over 200 mentions of faith as a highly positive thing, as opposed to Jamesí usual negative usage. ìWithout FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.î ìWhatever is not of FAITH is SIN.î ìThe righteous shall live, LIVE! by his faith.î ìAccording to your FAITH be it unto you.î Jesus is ìthe AUTHOR and the PERFECTER of our FAITH.î ìTHIS is the VICTORY which overcomes the world, even our FAITH!î Jesus, to Paul, at the beginning of his ministry: ìI am sending you to them (the Gentiles) to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those WHO ARE (present tense) SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN ME.î This heavy emphasis on sanctification that I see on these SDA and ex-SDA lists is saddening. I fear that dear people who have been rescued from a religion of works are being led right back full circle into another religion of works by those who dwell on the two verses, ìFaith without works is deadî and ìBy their fruits ye shall know them.î Besides having been taken out of context, they do not ìbalanceî the 200 times Jesus and Paul speak of ìfaith.î Also, separating ìjustificationî from ìsanctificationî is a very Ellen White theology. ìBut you were (past tense) washed, you were (past tense), sanctified, you were (past tense) justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.î Those who continually harp on ìworksî, ìfruitsî, and ìsanctificationî are doing an ìanti-Christî work! I say it kindly, but it is true. Jesus did it all. When He breathed His last on the Cross, He cried ìPaid in full!î (Iím not a Greek or Hebrew scholar, but Iíve read this from many theologians for whom I have respect, and ìStrongísî agrees.) Jesus, in His prayer to His Father just before He was crucified, said, ìI have FINISHED the work Thou gavest Me to do.î He came to seek and to save that which was lost. Jesus came to die. His death and resurrection bring us a complete salvation package ñ forgiveness, justification, sanctification, glorification, everlasting life! Why on earth try to add to a work completed by God? Behavior changes after justification without doubt, but that is strictly between the sinner saved by grace and God. It is not ours to judge one another. Ours is but to ìrun with patience the race that is set before us,î looking unto our works? Our fruits? NO WAY! ìLOOKING UNTO JESUS!î If God sent His Son to go through what Jesus went through, and ended up with an incomplete work which fallible, sinful humans must complete, He made a terrible mistake. And personally, I donít think God is into making mistakes! ìFor it is by grace you are saved, THROUGH FAITH, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES. It is the GIFT OF GODÖî Praise His holy Name! Pat | ||
| Max |
Hi Pat, Nice to hear from you. Would you care to tell me a little bit about yourself? "Who, what, when, where, why and how" kinds of information that you would like to share? To answer your question about my chosen penname, "Max of the Cross," no I never "went into Catholicism from the SDAs." Do you think of the cross as more a symbol of Roman Catholicism than of Christ's sacrifice? Also, when and how do you think the Roman Catholic Church first came into existence? Megablessings, Max of the cross | ||
| Max |
Ps: The Roman Catholic Church as we know it today did not really come into existence till the Council of Trent beginning in 1545 AD. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Pat, My goodness, gracious sakes alive!!! After I looked up the word "nomenclature" and read and re-read the definition, I had to beat my head on the wall to try to understand your comment and still don't! You said: "Dropping by I notice ìMax of the Crossî, and I am curious about it. Since this is a ìformer SDAî list, I am wondering if you, Max, went into Catholicism from the SDAs? Your ìof the Crossî sig sounds like a Catholic nomenclature." Whoa, is about all that comes out besides that the cross of Jesus Christ is the foundation of our belief and Paul for one was just full of the CROSS! My dictionary says; Nomenclature...a set or system of names or terms!!! Does that make the "inspired" Biblical writers Catholic's? And by the way to anyone......Just what is the problem with the cross? Isn't that the thing that held the Son of God up while He paid for ALL your sins, past, present and future? Maryann | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi, All, Looks like we might be talking at "cross" purposes here! I'd like to share an experience that might help us see where the others are coming from -- but remember, as with anything I post, it's one man's experience/opinion; yours may well differ. :-) Shortly after I was baptized, I went with our assistant pastor a few times when he preached for an SDA "company" (a congregation that doesn't yet rate "church" status, for those of you without an SDA background). The company was meeting on Saturday mornings in a Methodist church. Prominent on the wall behind the platform was a large cross. After the service, I commented to another friend who also came along that day, about how much I'd enjoyed having the cross displayed in the sanctuary; how I kind of focused on it while I listened to the sermon. The guy I was talking to was a Catholic-turned-Adventist, and he replied, "Personally, I found it incredibly offensive!" I questioned him further, and *his* story (I know nothing personally about how Catholics regard the cross -- this is his story) was that, as a Catholic, he'd been taught to basically worship the cross -- the icon, not the thing it represents. For him, the cross in the church reminded him of his idolatrous (his word) past, as would votive candles and statues of Mary. So here we had two Christians with radically different backgrounds; for one, the cross was a wonderful symbol of Christ's sacrifice, for the other, a reminder of a religious system he'd rather forget. Perhaps a parallel would be the brazen serpent that Moses made -- there was nothing wrong with it; in fact, God had ordered its creation. And yet the Israelites managed to make an idol of it, until one of the latter kings destroyed it. A better parallel might be Paul's stance on food offered to idols -- a case where a Christian's background could make a harmless thing (the food) into a stumbling block, because of the significance it holds in that person's experience. And how did we get *here* from "Former Adventists of the South Pacific", anyway ?! :-) - Lorin | ||
| Max |
Hi Lorin, The original post under "Former Adventists of the South Pacific" really had nothing to do with the South Pacific as distinct from the rest of the world. It had to do with why people are leaving the SDA church anywhere in the world. The person who ran a "poll" of SDA-leaving persons "discovered" that they left because they had been mistreated, not because of false teachings, false prophet, etc. FAFFers disputed that claim in droves. The tie-in now is that SDAs abhor displays of the cross, especially on the OUTSIDE of the church, such as on a steeple. But now that many of us are leaving the SDA denom, we're discussing why we have to continue our distaste for and prejudice against displays of the cross, whether in church, on a steeple, or around a neck. Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Lorin, That was a very good story and very applicable in this thread! Thank you;-) For myself, even being out of SDAism since 1976, and all religion for that matter, till 2 or 3 years ago, I find it very frustrating that so many of us still have that remnant mindset. What I mean is that "remnantism" is so bred into us that we reek of it!!!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrr!! Now that "WE" have been released from the bondage of SDAism, "WE" still hang on to this, "WE REMNANT"....."YOU NOT REMNANT" syndrome. You see, it is easy to think that now that we have the "REAL TRUTH" we are special. We forget that so many in the evangelical community have had this truth long before we were babies in diapers! It is time to LET GO of that "I, and only I have the truth now!" Talking about the cross and what it ment to you and what it ment to your friend is a wonderful example. It's when people start attacking a person PERSONALLY to hurt them that they show they STILL are in the SDA REMNANTISM mindset. So when that happens I guess it would be best to suck up a big breath and make a long prayer for wisdom with it so as not to get drawn into the character assassinations too. By the way, this is a general inclusion of everyone, including myself, and not specificly aimed at anyone. It is soooo easy to get involved in personal attacks, I know, I've done it too:-( Anyway Lorin, thank you for your Christian spirit;-)) Upward and onward.........Maryann | ||
| Lorinc |
I know what you mean about the "remnant spirit", Maryann! It is so, so , SO hard to allow the Holy Spirit to purge that spiritual pride from our outlook. Not just pride about being SDA, or pride about *not* being SDA --- we can always find *some* reason to magnify ourselves! :-( I guess we come by it naturally. Lucifer's problem wasn't that he maintained that God's law couldn't be kept (sorry, Ellen G.!); his problem was spiritual pride -- "I will be like the Most High!" Later he appealed to the same side of Adam's and Eve's nature -- "you will be like God!". And even after the flood, the builders of the tower of Babel did it, not to escape another flood (sorry again, Ellen G.!) but "to make a name for [them]selves." Once again, we're brought to the foot of the cross, where the words of that old hymn come to mind: "When I survey the wondrous cross, On which the Prince of Glory died, My richest gain I count but loss, And pour contempt on all my pride." Finally! A place to pour all that contempt! On my own prideful spirit, and not on others! :-) - Lorin | ||
| Patti |
Lorin wrote: I guess we come by it naturally. Lucifer's problem wasn't that he maintained that God's law couldn't be kept (sorry, Ellen G.!); his problem was spiritual pride -- "I will be like the Most High!" Later he appealed to the same side of Adam's and Eve's nature -- "you will be like God!". Patti: EXACTLY! And Satan tempts us even today into thinking that we can progress to the point that we can restore ourselves to the image of God. And the sad thing about it is that many people fail to recognize that Christ has already accomplished this for all who will believe in Him. By faith in Jesus Christ, we are perfectly restored (forgiven) and have a life of perfect obedience to render to God in judgment (the perfect obedience of Jesus Christ). We remain hopeless sinners (yet hopeful in Jesus Christ) until the day that we see Jesus as He is. At that time, and not before, we will be like Him in Reality. Today His perfect life is ours by faith. We do not have to "do it"; Christ HAS DONE it for all who trust in Him already. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Lorin, I have a couple questions for you. You are new here and sometimes a new person can see something that those real close can't see. Patti just posted in response to you: "EXACTLY! And Satan tempts us even today into thinking that we can progress to the point that we can restore ourselves to the image of God." Have you seen anything by me or other "regular" poster's on THIS forum that even come remotely close within a zillion miles of saying that??! Patti also said: "And the sad thing about it is that many people fail to recognize that Christ has already accomplished this for all who will believe in Him." Have you ever seen anything by me or other "regular" poster's that comes even remotely close within a zillion miles of DENYING that??! Are the things I say coming through differently on some computer's then other's?! I will say again: "Fruit's of the Spirit" are demonstrated BECAUSE we are saved NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT to be saved! Shake, shake, shake........Maryann | ||
| Lorinc |
Ummm.... Is this the part where the "new guy" steps into the middle of an ongoing battle and proceeds to get zinged from both sides? :-) Maryann, my answers would be, in order, No, No, and No. But then again, I haven't read every message ever posted on this forum (or even all the postings in this thread). I didn't take Patti's post to be referring to anyone specific, on the forum or off it. I just read it as an affirmation of the gospel. From your posting, it sounds like you, too, would agree with what she said... am I reading you right? If so, we all agree! Cool! I guess I'm not sure what the controversy is; sorry if I've missed the point somehow. Slightly bewildered but still smiling, Lorin |
