| Author | Message | ||
| Susan (Susan) |
I've been looking at the adventist baptismal vows. At first they sound Evangelical, but then there is a major shift towards works. If they really believed in the finished work of the cross, why all these vows that require works? And where do they get off claiming to be the "remnant" church? I don't see anything in my bible that can back that up. Aren't these signs of a cult? I'm often puzzled when other Christians are suprised, that I would refer to adventists as cultic. What I've learned about cults, seems to apply to adventists, i.e. extra-biblical source of authority (spirit of prophecy/EGW), works not grace, the only true church mentality, and end times participation. I haven't mentioned all cultic traits, but you get the idea. And what about adventists that appear to sound like an evangelical Christian? How do you witness to them? If they're really a Christian, how could they stay in a church that hasn't renounced a false prophet and how could they continue to keep the sabbath? Haven't they read Ephesians 1:13? I just don't get it. Any thoughts on any of these topics? It's just so difficult to reach out to adventists. Any ideas for witnessing or do you know of any resources that might be helpful? One more thing. Does it bother you when adventists refer to Sat. as "sabbath"? My adventist family memebers seem to lay-it-on-thick whenever we're around. Sometimes it seems insulting. We don't refer to Sun. as "the Lord's day". I guess it's like the meat thing. When they come to our house I always serve a vegetarian dish. Do you think they would fix meat for us? NO WAY! I'd love to hear any comments. Thanks! | ||
| Cas |
It is very sad indeed what Adventism has become and has been since it's very beginnings. It is totally self absorbed. The arrogance of thinking that your "club" is the remnant and everyone else has this huge testing time to go through that one can hardly make it through, but if you are true to that Sabbath day you will make it! I have always wondered why it would be such a difficult test for people during the last days, when those people that have died already did not have to endure such a test. (most of them anyway) Adventism from the beginning has claimed that some of the prophecies rovolved around them, (parable of the 10 virgins), (the bittersweet experience of Daniel)(3 angels message)and of course since they believed Jesus was coming in 1843/44 they had to fit in fulfilled prophecies in order for that to happen, which of course we know now that the Lisbon earthquake was not the largest earthquake, the dark day,the moon turning to blood. They tried to fit these happenings in history and now we can see how they do not fit, but the Adventist church still teaches the above events as fulfilled prophecy....they have no choice because if Ellen White said it or endorsed a belief that was the last word, after all it was a message from God. It is sad for me to see how many of us there are that are so messed up from these "unique doctrines" and have much pain to go through to get over this. I pray we can stay strong and concentrate now on being Christians and not Adventist's. I think many people are good Adventist's but not necessarily good Christians. God Bless us all! | ||
| Lydell |
Susan, it seems that those of us who have left the SDA's are always arguing whether or not they are a cult. As you pointed out, there are so many cultic things about the denomination. And yet, they DO acknowedlge the basics of Christianity. They do declare that salvation is by faith in Christ alone. They don't have a clue what that means maybe, but the basic teaching is there. So it is maybe more accurate to say they are Christian but hanging onto cultic doctrines. Certainly you can look at many Christian denominations that have the occassional cultic outlook or teaching. What we can all agree on is that there is so little light there that there is no point in staying. And that it is, in fact, dangerous to stay because of the whole "we've got it and the rest of them are doomed" attitude. What I always find interesting is the order of things in the baptismal vows. Some stuff there is way out of order of importance! I'm thinking that maybe they have stepped over the line over the passed 20 years or so toward becoming fully a cult. There was that one G.C. session where the resolution was passed that said, "resolved: when the G.C. sets in session it is recognized to be God's highest authority on earth." Then there is the "small" matter of having produced two of their own Bibles in the passed two years that include Ellen White. And the thing of them bringing lawsuits against, and then kicking out whole congregations that have become spirit-filled. After all, the only sin that cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. You asked how anyone who is truly a Christian could stay in the denomination. I can only speak from our own experience, and would be interested to hear what others have to say on this. We had been Christians for many years before we ever became SDA. When we joined the church it was only because the Lord had taken a full year to lay on us a conviction to keep the 7th day sabbath. We know that in the 3 congregations where we were members during our 8 years in the church, there were no more than a handful combined who trully understood grace. And virtually no understanding in most of assurance of salvation.....no wonder there was so very little joy in the Lord in those folks! We know that during our time there we became friends with one lady who was living through a hellish marriage with an unbeliever. We met her during the first 4 years we were there. (She moved away and returned to our lives a year after we had left the church. She was a changed woman.....so oppressed by her abuse at her husbands hands--and the neglect of the church--that I still weep at the memory of the pain we saw in her! She believes that we were there to rescue her.) Perhaps He had only intended that we go for a short time to be witnesses to certain people we otherwise might not have met. All I can tell you of a certainty is that the last four years we were in the church were pure misery. It killed our joy in the Lord. We definitely felt as if we were being crushed under a heavy load, but needed to stay to try to reach someone, anyone. When we finally reached our point of desperation, finally reached the end of all of our "great ideas" of things we might try to reach the people with the light of Christ, and began seeking his direction to the point of shutting up and listening, his answer to me personally came as a bolt out of the blue. I was walking down the road crying and praying seeking help when the answer came and I stopped as if I had literally walked into a wall at his quiet wounded answer, "I never said I wanted you to stay!" Because we so foolishly stayed so much longer than he had ever intended, we suspect he next placed us in the wilderness experience (it was our private joke to refer to it as that....no one else knew what we called it) of meeting as a home church for years. But there again, we aren't sure how long he intended that one to last. We feel sure he put us there as a sort of "rehab", out of the way where he could wash us of the poison that we had picked up. We were set out of the way so that we couldn't spread that poison to others. Unfortunately, we neglected to learn lesson number one: NEVER forget to listen for the WHOLE answer of "how long". There again we know that the first 2 years were of him, probably 2 more, but the last 4, no.....that was our own incredible stupidity. And we tremble now looking back at where we were, where our families were. We were SO CLOSE to loosing our children to the world! Praise God for His great mercy! Can you imagine how we felt when, the second night we visited the church where God has planted us, we heard the preacher give the invitation, "the Lord wants some here to know this: 'it's time to come in out of the wilderness' "? Like you said Cas, it is so sad that it takes so long to work your way out of the cobwebs. Trully it is a work that only the Holy Spirit can do in us, isn't it?! | ||
| Robert Broyles |
I have read many posts on other web sites that down the law of God (the ten commandments) and maintain that it has been abolished. Yet, in the same breath, these same individuals state that the new law (what some term "the law of Christ") is the law of love! OK, fair enough. I will not now make the argument that the ten commandments and "the law of Christ" are one and the same. Instead, I will prove that those who claim to "love," are really not "loving" at all! (I include myself) [edited by moderator: too long and outside the scope of this forum. This forum is for discussion among former Adventists and others who have found Jesus to be their Sabbath Rest. If you wish to have large works published by this site, please submit them to webmaster@formeradventist.com for consideration. Thanks.] | ||
| Lynn w |
Robert, I don't know what the rest of your post said, but I do know this, that the Christians I know are very much full of love. I have seen almost nothing but loving attitudes on this web. Speaking for myself, I try to take everything to God in prayer so that He can show me how to treat everyone with love & to convict me when I don't so I can make it right with people. Feel free to E-mail me privately if you want to pursue this conversation. | ||
| npond |
I find this amusing. Sunday as I opened the newspaper, I came across the section where the local churches advertise their services, etc. This Baptist church was thanking a local funeral home for the use of their chapel for the past 3 years and went on to say that they will be moving to have their services at the SDA church on Sundays at such and such address. I find it rather strange that they would have the "Beast" in their own back yard. I don't understand this one bit. They are obsessed with the Sunday thing but don't mind taking their "beastly money".They talk out of both sides of their mouths. Also I came across where the Branch Dividians was rebuilding their compound in Waco and the paper referred to them as the Branch Dividians of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. That's real great!!! I remember when all that was happening and we were going to church then, and our conference president telephoned our pastor and told him or anyone not to be talking to anyone about that, to refer any questions to them. Yeh, I guess so!! I realize there's nuts in all churches but the BD's had to get their foundation from somewhere and someone!!! Just thought it to be interesting. I'm so glad not to be mixed up in that any more. It's still a struggle because that's all I've ever known. But I just can't keep going just for certain members of my family. They're unhappy to or they wouldn't treat me and my husband the way they do which is total silence. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw either one of them. I pray every nite they will come around. I guess this is the price one pays!! Thanks for listening. NEP | ||
| Cas |
That is such a shame Nep that your family will not speak to you. A lot of us are in the same boat about dropping out of church. I read an article in an old Evangelica magazine last night and I quote one lady saying "If I'm not an Adventist, what am I?? I thought, hey how true, that is what I am going through. We have not been to church (sda) in months because I can't take it, but what are we then??? If we are not SDA what are we?? It seems the transition is very difficult to go through. The idea of going to church on Sunday is very strange when your whole life it has been sat. Thank You FAF for being there and all of you who know exactly what I am talking about~you know~been there, done that. Blessings CAS |
