| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
NOTICE I SAID COMMANDMENT, NOT SUGGESTION We chose not only to believe in His existence and kingship over the world, but we also chose to accept His commandments. In any conversion, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox, the male convert must undergo circumcision. If he had been circumcised as a baby, then even a ritual bris milah [surgical ceremony] must be performed by drawing a drop of blood. Why should anyone want to go through such an ordeal just to say he's Jewish and to go to temple on Friday nights? Circumcision is performed on converts because this is one of the commandments that G-d gave to Abraham. Notice I said commandment. Not suggestion. We were given more than the 10 commandments. G-d gave us 613 commandments at Mount Sinai. He commanded strict observance of the Sabbath. He commanded us to keep kosher homes, not because kosher food is better for you (would G-d command us to do something that isn't healthy?), but because He wanted us to be holy and separate from the pagan world. For us it should be enough that He commanded it. My parents taught me to be consistent. It wouldn't be right for me to look at all of America's laws and decide to keep every law except those laws concerned with stealing. Life might be easier if I could take things that don't belong to me, but people can't just choose to observe those laws that are most convenient to them. In the same sense, I don't feel right going through the Torah and then deciding only to keep certain commandments and not to accept the others because I think they are outdated or inconvenient. -------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from Bruce James, ìJewish By Choice: Why I Converted to Judaism,î BALTIMORE JEWISH TIMES, April 10, 1981. Full text available at: http://members.delphi.com/bjames17/index.ht ml | ||
| Cindy |
Max, Very interesting. I started laughing when I read your title to this thread, but you do have a point!! Thanks for sharing the above. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Dear SDA friend, Youíve heard of the great Jewish theologian Abraham Joshua Heschel on the SABBATH and you were thrilled. (If not, hereís a synopsis: Heschelís ìThe Sabbath: Its Meaning for Modern Manî (1951) gives modern Jews an understanding of Shabbat as a sanctification of time, as opposed to what has become an all-too-common adoration of space in contemporary life. Shabbat observance, Heschel says, requires withdrawal from the space-world and immersion in the time-world, with joy and song and poetry, in the rhapsody of family love, in the company of friends, and with mystical abandon in the praise of the Creator. On Shabbat, we break free of the profane and embrace the sacred.) Now hear a far greater Jewish theologian, Moses Maimonides, on CIRCUMCISION: To the totality of purposes of the perfect Law there belong the abandonment, depreciation, and restraint of desires in so far as possible. You know already that most of the lusts and licentiousness of the multitude consist in an appetite for eating, drinking and sexual intercourse. To the totality of intentions of the Law there belong gentleness and docility; man should not be hard and rough, but responsive, obedient, acquiescent, and docile. You know already His commandment... "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Be silent, and hearken, O Israel. If ye be willing and obedient." From Moses Maimonides, "The Guide of the Perplexed", Part III, ch. 33. See: http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides / Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
CIRCUMCISION: 1. Keeps ìthe organ be in as quiet a state as possible.î 2. Perfects ìwhat is defective morally.î 3. ìWeakens the faculty of sexual excitement.î 4. Makes it ìhard for a woman with whom an uncircumcised man has had sexual intercourse to separate from him." How do we know? The renowned Rabbi Moses Maimonedes says so: ^^ With regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is, in my opinion, the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible. It has been thought that circumcision perfects what is defective congenitally. This gave the possibility to everyone to raise an objection and to say: How can natural things be defective so that they need to be perfected from outside, all the more because we know how useful the foreskin is for that member? In fact this commandment has not been prescribed with a view to perfecting what is defective congenitally, but to perfecting what is defective morally. The bodily pain caused to that member is the real purpose of circumcision. None of the activities necessary for the preservation of the individual is harmed thereby, nor is procreation rendered impossible, but violent concupiscence and lust that goes beyond what is needed are diminished. The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened. The Sages, may their memory be blessed, have explicitly stated: "It is hard for a woman with whom an uncircumcised man has had sexual intercourse to separate from him." In my opinion this is the strongest of the reasons for circumcision. Who first began to perform this act, if not Abraham who was celebrated for his chastity---as has been mentioned by the Sages, may their memory be blessed, with reference to his dictum: "Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon." ^^ Moses Maimonides, "The Guide of the Perplexed", Part III, ch. 49. See: http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides --------------------------------------------------------------- Therefore, dear SDA friends, if you recognize the Jewish authorities on the value of the Sabbath, then why not recognize what they say about circumcision and make it -- like the Sabbath -- a test of fellowship? Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
*************************************** THREE REASONS WHY GODíS LAW CAN BE ìPERFECTED AND PERPETUATEDî IF CIRCUMCISION IS DONE WHEN THE CHILD IS EIGHT DAYS OLD by Moses Maimonides ìThe perfection and perpetuation of this Law can only be achieved if circumcision is performed in childhood. For this there are three wise reasons.î YOUR CHILD WOULDNíT HAVE IT DONE AFTER HE GROWS UP. ìThe first is that if the child were let alone until he grew up, he would sometimes not perform it.î HE SUFFERS LESS PAIN AS A BABE THAN HE WOULD AS A GROWN MAN. ìThe second is that a child does not suffer as much pain as a grown-up man because his membrane is still soft and his imagination weak; for a grown-up man would regard the thing, which he would imagine before it occurred, as terrible and hard.î IF YOU WAIT TILL HEíS 2 OR 3 YEARS OLD -- RATHER THAN 8 DAYS -- THEN YOU WOULD LOVE HIM TOO MUCH TO CAUSE HIM THAT MUCH PAIN. "The third is that the parents of a child that is just born take lightly matters concerning it, for up to that time the imaginative form that compels the parents to love it is not yet consolidated. For this imaginative form increases through habitual contact and grows with the growth of the child. Then it begins to decrease and to disappear, I refer to this imaginative form. For the love of the father and of the mother for the child when it has just been born is not like their love for it when it is one year old, and their love for it when it is one year old is not like their love when it is six years old. Consequently if it were left uncircumcised for two or three years, this would necessitate the abandonment of circumcision because of the father's love and affection for it. At the time of its birth, on the other hand, this imaginative form is very weak, especially as far as concerns the father upon whom this commandment is imposed." Moses Maimonides, "THE GUIDE OF THE PERPLEXED", Part III, ch. 49. See: http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides --------------------------------------------------------------- Therefore, dear SDA parents, if you really love Godís Law as you say you do, then wouldn't will ìperfecting and perpetuatingî it in your new babyís life by circumcising him as well as taking him to Sabbath School? Please post your answers as soon as you can. Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Interesting information!!! Happy......."Bris Shalom!" | ||
| Bruceh |
Max Max you should see what Moses Maimonides says about being made in Gods Image. He is very interesting to read. Bruce Heinrich BH | ||
| Max |
Thanks, Bruce, I think I will. | ||
| Max |
CIRCUMCISION: AN IMPORTANT PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURE TO PREVENT AIDS While the AIDS epidemic has occurred primarily among homosexual males and intravenous drug users in America, it is a disease of predominantly heterosexual men and women in Africa. In the past, it has been noticed that men who were uncircumcised and men with a history of genital ulcer disease such as syphilis and chancroid were more likely than men who were circumcised or those without a similar sexually transmitted disease (STD) history to have AIDS. Deborah A. Cohen, MD, MPH Associate Professor Louisiana State University Medical Center Department of Public Health and Preventive Medicine 1600 Canal Street, 8th Floor New Orleans, LA 70112 504/568-7474 504/568-7044 FAX http://www.rj.org/beritmila/bmnews2.html *************************** Therefore, dear SDA friends, In view of the fact that millions of Seventh-day Adventists live in Africa, donít you think that this is an excellent reason to make circumcision a test of SDA fellowship? And isnít this at least as good a reason for doing so as is the ìyou need one day in seven to restî argument for the Sabbath test of SDA fellowship? Awaiting your answers, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Good News for Making Circumcision an SDA Test of Fellowship! ONLY BABIES HAVE TO FEEL THE PAIN! "If a circumcised male (or even a non-circumcised male) converts to Judaism, there is a "symbolic" circumcision (no adult is ever circumcised), involving a tiny pin-prick which draws a drop of blood from just beneath the corona, again done by a trained professional, and practically unable to be felt. " Bruce Rosenstock, Bruce Rosenstock, Lecturer, Religious Studies and Classics, University of California, Davis. Go to: http://philo.ucdavis.edu/~bruce/RST23/STDNT PAGES/Hunt/adults.htm and bbrosenstock@ucdavis.edu | ||
| Max |
More Good News for Circumcision as SDA Test of Fellowship: MEDICAL COMMUNITY APPROVES OF ADULT CIRCUMCISION FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS Adult circumcision can be performed under local or regional anesthesia. Medical indications for this procedure include phimosis, paraphimosis, recurrent balanitis and posthitis (inflammation of the prepuce). Nonmedical reasons may be social, cultural, personal or religious. The procedure is commonly performed using either the dorsal slit or the sleeve technique. The dorsal slit is especially useful in patients who have phimosis. The sleeve technique may provide better control of bleeding in patients with large subcutaneous veins. A dorsal penile nerve block, with or without a circumferential penile block, provides adequate anesthesia. Informed consent must be obtained. Possible complications of adult circumcision include infection, bleeding, poor cosmetic results and a change in sensation during intercourse. Dr. JOHN R. HOLMAN and Dr. KEITH A. STUESSI, ìAdult Circumcision,î AMERICAN FAMILY PHYSICIAN, March 15, 1999 Full text available at: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m3225/6_59/ 54129340/p1/article.jhtml | ||
| Max |
JESUS WAS CIRCUMCISED! Dear SDA friend, You or your representatives -- such as Doug Batchelor of "Amazing Facts" -- maintain that the Sabbath should be kept because our example Jesus Christ kept it and that this example is so important that required Sabbath-keeping should also be retained as a test of fellowship. Well, our example Jesus Christ was also circumcised. NIV Luke 2:21 ^^On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was anmed Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived.^^ So by the same logic, should not we also be circumcized therefore? And shouldn't circumcision also be made a test of fellowship as it was with the Jews of Christ's day? Your well-considered answers would be greatly appreciated. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
GOD'S WORD COMMANDS CIRCUMCISION Excerpts from ìAdovcating Circumcision Today (Part I): Circumcision ñ Its Source in the Torah [Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy]î It is written in Genesis, (17; 10-12): "This shall be the covenant that you shall keep between Me and you and your children after you: you shall circumcise all males. And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and this shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And at eight days old you shall circumcise all males for all generations..." Circumcision was first performed some 3,800 years ago by our forefather, Abraham, on himself, at the age of 99. Only after having been circumcised was he fit to father the Jewish nation. When his son, Isaac, was born, Abraham circumcised him on the eighth day, in accordance with G-dís commandment to do so. THE REASON FOR BRIT MILAH [SACRED SURGERY] The word brit means "covenant" and the word Milah means "circumcision". Circumcision is that which permanently establishes a covenant between G-d and the Jew. (A Jewish female is born already circumcised, so to speak, possessing this holy sign within her from the moment of birth.) G-d wanted to permanently affix a symbol on the bodies of the people He chose to be called by His name. Circumcision was designated as the symbol of this covenant, being that this is the source from which the perpetuation of the species emanates. One might ask: If G-d desired that all males be circumcised, why then did He not simply create the human being already circumcised? The answer to that is as follows: The reason G-d does not create the human being complete already in the motherís womb, is in order to indicate that just as the physical aspects of the body can be perfected by human deeds (such as circumcision), so too is it within the personís ability to perfect the soul by correcting oneself spiritually through the covenant of circumcision. CIRCUMCISION AS IMMUNIZATION AGAINST LIFEíS PROBLEMS It is of interest to note that penile cancer is almost unheard of by Jewish men. Based on these observations, circumcision throughout the world has now become a routine medical practice. Although circumcision by Jews is not performed because of health benefits, but rather solely because G-d commanded us to do so, we are nevertheless confident that whatever G-d commanded us to do, is ultimately for our benefit and will only contribute to the physical and spiritual well-being of the person. After all, G-d commands us in the Torah to maintain a healthy body and is called by the title, "Healer of all flesh". ACT 545 8th Ave. Rm# 401 New York, N.Y. 10018ÝÝ TEL 212-613-3293ÝÝÝ TEL 212 877 BRIT NOW Full text available at: http://www.act-now.org/circumcision2.htm | ||
| Valm |
Max, I am confused. In some of your passages you seem to support circumcision and others you do not. I do gather your message that circumcision was a part of the old testament law and logic follows that it should also be kept if you believe that these laws were not done away with. But do you think that God provided circumcision as a matter of health to his people? I do know that the AMA and AAP (medical organizations) have been batting their positions back and forth through out my professional carreer. I do know the current stance of the AAP is they are not recommended for health benefit. The statistices on AIDS in south Africa may be skewed due to other factors. AIDS in parts of Africa is prevalent due to their concept of sexuality outside of marriage. Some of the cultures find it acceptable to have multiple wifes as well as to share their wifes with travelers from other villages. I do not know whether these cultural factors exist in South Africa but I would imagine they do play an impact on it. I would think that a study to verify these findings would be whether there is a difference in the sexual practices of the circumcised men vs the uncircumcised. This may be the true link to HIV frequency than the variable of circumcision. Penile cancer may be almost non existent in Jewish men but what is the current rate of this disease in other genetic groups? Is there a difference in other genetic groups of circumcised vs uncircumcised men? There are other cultures that have circumcision as part of there ceremonial rites; what is their rate of penile cancer? Is the non existence of penile cancer due to the amount of sexual partners Jewish men have throughout their life vs other men. So many variables so little research. To our Adventist friends PLEASE PLEASE don't add this to your list of things to do today!!!! Live in God's magnificient grace and know that there is not anything more you can do today to have his love. His grace is sufficient for you!!!!!!! | ||
| Maryann |
I think the whole point was that if a person thinks they have to keep the Sabbath, they should also have to keep the circumcision law! Of course His grace is sufficient;-) Both the Sabbath and circumcision were signs of God's covenant with Israel, why keep one without the other? Maryann PS.....Since everyone is getting so graphic with this subject, I'll add my 2 cents worth. The most logical and "dignified" circumcision is when it is a "half circumcision":):):):) Any questions? | ||
| Max |
Hi Valm, Methinks you are a health-care professional. I'm impressed with your knowledge of applied medical science. As to your confusion on my position on circumcision, maybe I can clarify. Basically Maryann is correct: I'm trying to show our Adventist friends that their arguments in favor of required Sabbath-keeping are inconsistent. And that if one is to be consistent, then the following slogan should apply: REQUIRE SABBATH, REQUIRE CIRCUMCISION. May I hear from all of my Adventist friends out there? Ken, are you lurking? What sayest thou? Max of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
Max, Yes I am. I get that part of your arguement. I just don't get the other stuff. Are you trying to touch a few nerves (no pun intended) or drive up some passion? (I didn't mean that the way it might have sounded) I suppose my overall concern with this and other threads is do these topics stimulate a desire to know God or arguement over points of doctrine? If we are trying to adress our Adventist friends, is this the right approach? I wonder if our Adventist friends become more defensive or percieve genuine concern for them. By the way trivia question: Do you know the practical application of doing a circ on the 8th day? Happy Thanksgiving to you Max and to all others who read this. I have enjoyed coming back to the computer today for my breaks from a marathon house clean. I hope through the holiday weekend I will be able to sign on. Valerie | ||
| Max |
Hi Valerie, Thanks for the Thanksgiving wishes and the same to you and your family. No, I don't know the practical application of doing a mahel on the eighth day. What is it? About our approach to our Adventist friends, I have often pondered this question. And I am open to further consideration from others as to the "hows" of going about reaching them. I have settled on one principle: Whatever is to be done, it is to be done in love. And I do love them and believe I have a special calling from God to reach them. Remember that both Jesus and Paul used different techniques to reach those who had no "eyes" to see nor "ears" to hear. Here's a circumcision example from Paul: RSV Galatians 5:10 I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine; and he who is troubling you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11 But if I, brethren, still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? In that case the stumbling block of the cross has been removed. 12 I wish those who unsettle you would MUTILATE themselves! 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Notice that the Greek word for "mutilate" here is not "circumcise," but "castrate"! The NIV reads, "As for these agitators [Christian Sabbatarians from Jerusalem], I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" And the NIV text note for this verse reads, "The Greek word means 'to cut off,' or 'to castrate.' In Php 3:2 Paul uses a related word to describe the same sort of people as 'mutilators of the flesh.' His sarcasm is evident." Why would Paul use sarcasm? I'll quote you 1 Corinthians 9:19-21 (my own translation): ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Although from all men I am free, I made myself a slave to all so I could gain the more: I became to the Jews a Jew so I could gain the Jews. To those beneath the law as one beneath the law (not myself beneath the law) so those beneath the law I could gain. To those outside the law as one outside the law (not outside the law of God but inside the law of Christ) so those outside the law I could gain. I became to the weak ones weak so I could gain the weak. All things to all I have become so that at least I might save some. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am open to further discussion on this subject. Max of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
The body does not manufacture adequate vitamin K until the 8th day and vitamin K facilitates blood clotting. I wonder was the 8th day a God thing or a trial and error thing? I am pondering on the correct way to begin discussion with Adventists. I guess I have always been sensitive to the whole spiritual sparring thing. I know in my childhood household your discussion would have certainly aroused (there I go again) tempers. I believe that you have such zeal and passion and knowledge but perhaps some softening on the approach could occur as I believe that sometimes the sincere love you have is not evident in the approach. I don't know what to think of Paul's passage that you quoted. I do know he was considered zealous and wonder if I was around then if I wouldn't be giving him the grief I gave you. I gotta quite coming back to this computer. The house is cleaned and it is time to take my little guy to his soccer/pizza party. And tonight Grandpop will be in for the holidays. Once again may you have just the wonderfulest (is that a word?) of holidays. Valerie | ||
| Max |
Valerie, Glad you managed to post while keeping everything domestic under control. Wish you and yours the best of Thanksgivings. On the topic of "approach" I have a passage for your opinion, particularly the part in all caps: NIV 2 Corinthians 12:15 So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less? 16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. YET, CRAFTY FELLOW THAT I AM, I CAUGHT YOU BY TRICKERY! 17 Did I exploit you through any of the men I sent you? 18 I urged Titus to go to you and I sent our brother with him. Titus did not exploit you, did he? Did we not act in the same spirit and follow the same course? 19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. What do you think? | ||
| Valm |
With the risk of sounding like a heretic, I think Paul had poor skills in diplomacy and tact. But nevertheless his energy, enthusiasm and knowledge was used to the great glory of God. Valerie | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, In thinking about this "tact" issue! Not one of us on this earth is perfect. Each one of us says things we wish we could take back. Everyone of us has our own way of communicating. There are things that I said, and ways I said things 6 months ago that I felt were right but don't use that same approach now. I say things now that I may not think are right 6 months from now! THAT IS CALLED GROWTH! I'm not in any way criticizing anyone here, I'm just going to try to make a point. Take a look at the TV media. I'm not talking about the raunchy commercials!!!! I'm talking about the decent few, (there were more to choose from 15 years ago.) What commercials stick in your mind? The more creative ones! The ones that went around the horn to get your attention are the ones you recall easiest. As to Paul having "poor skills in diplomacy and tact," God must have had a "tactless plan" to have used him as the guy that wrote the most books in the NT. Maybe that is a hint that "we" too are to use what ever means that are impressed upon us to get the point across. Yeh, Paul had as much tact as a busted duck! "Oh you foolish Galations! Who has bewitched you?" is rather tactless! I tend not to use to many Bible verses. I have received criticizism for that. That is okay, I don't mind that. What makes it worthwhile is that I will get an e-mail now and then telling me that my lack of "Bible thumping" is easy to read, yet has familiar Bible principles all through it. There are enough other people that use a lot of Bible and even post behind me and post verses to amplify my post, to make this a very Biblical site. So, I fully believe that every post on this site is beneficial to someone out there. Even if it is just one person, that post is a valuable as one that many benefit from. Upward and onward........Maryann | ||
| Max |
How's this for tact? NIV Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. | ||
| Valm |
Max, I don't know how to figure you out. It would certainly help if I could see your body language when you speak. The computer leaves alot out when it comes to communicating. I am going on an hunch that you are probably the nicest guy and about the age of my father. I would probably just love you face to face but I only see the computer side of you. And much like my Father, I have to be honest your words provoke me at times. I agree with both you and MaryAnn that it takes all kinds. And maybe your approach reaches alot more people than I can imagine. I know I am awfully sensitive. None of us are perfect. I myself make mistakes moment by moment it seems. And I am concerned that I have said things on this line that would be perceived as angry or condescending towards Adventist. With regards to Paul. Isn't it wonderful that God gave him the ability to understand what happened at the cross and his ability to articulate well and used it too speak to the multitude of generations that followed him? But I have to be honest that sometimes Paul grates on me. His Gospel message part of his Epistles are awesome. But the sections that seem more conversational to the churches he is writing to can be abrasive. I do not view them as inspired by God the way I view the portions of them in which he is teaching the Gospel. I do have an overall concern about approach. When I was a child like all of your I went to many evangelistic series. They all started out much like they would in any denomination. This was a way to get the people comfortable with Adventist and to view them as mainstream. After about 5 such meetings maybe less, the subjects would get gradually and systematically into the doctrines that differentiate Adventism from mainstream Christianity. This was a deceptive practice that really upset alot people in attendance. Another practice that is used is to pass out literature and sell books while avoiding letting people know that the books are from the Adventist church. Many Adventists would justify what I consider dishonest and bad behavior with the Bible texts you gave above. My brothers and father used to be very CONFRONTATIONAL with me. They would begin with a subject they knew I was interested in and somehow weave in whatever message they thought I needed at the time. Once the opening came the message was either confrontational or verbally abusive towards my beliefs and values. They used those texts above to justify their actions. They would follow it up with my "grieving away the Holy Spirit" if I did not agree with them texts and if I became angry with them they were "persecuted for righteousness sake" I finally told them all to please stop using the Bible to condone what they know in their heart is bad behavior. I think that the topics discussed here are important. I am amazed at the Biblical knowledge many of you have and am learning alot. But it grieves me to think that rather than capturing Adventists hearts with the Gospel message we might be hardening them with confrontation. Sometimes Dear Adventist Friends sounds like a taunt rather than an invitation to a loving conversation in a friendly environment. | ||
| Max |
Dear Valerie, I don't feel as though I have any choice in the matter. I feel driven by our sovereign God and coached by the examples of Scripture. How tactful was Stephen? Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Val, Yeh, everyone sure has their own ways of communicating. Everyone that post here has people that get grated by their post's. There are countless others that are blessed. I figure, if one pleases everyone, they are "usually" wishy washy. My personality enjoys Max's approach. He has skinned me as have a few other people. I have skinned a few too, so join the ranks of the humans;-) Max tends to keep me thinking and that is good. As to what Max is like. Here is the perfect description of him. Big bark, bigger tail that wags all the time!;-)) :):):):).......Maryann |
