| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
EGW: ìIT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE SAVED AS YOU AREî In EGWís most horrible statements to others, was she talking to herself? Consider: *** "From what was shown me, there is a great work to be accomplished for you before you can be accepted in the sight of God." --Ellen G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 84, written in 1868. *** "You have a great work to do.... It is impossible for you to be saved as you are." --Ellen G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 316, written in 1869. *** "As you are, you would mar all heaven. You are uncultivated, unrefined, and unsanctified. there is no place in heaven for such a character as you now possess.... You're further today from the standard of Christian perfection ... than you were a few months after you had received the truth." --Ellen G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 465, written in 1875. I feel more sorrow for EGW than anything else. In her most horrible statements she was probably talking more to HERSELF than anybody else. In so doing she demonstrated a common cultish phenomenon called "denial and projection." It means denial of a quality within one's self and projecting (or "sticking") it onto other people. By "denying and projecting" she could selfishly relieve the pain of her own guilty conscience. Ellen White was "dumping" on the Adventist pioneers, meaning that she was denying the pain of her own guilt feelings and unconsciously projecting it onto others. But those "others" were her own fellow SDAs -- husband James White, Uriah Smith, John Loughborough, John Kellogg, etc. But those were the very people who were using her to their own advantage. For example, to get her to "validate with vision" their own ideas of what Scripture means and thus gain denomination-wide acceptance of these ideas and turn them into official doctrine. Then to secure the positions of power, such as the General Conference Presidency and seats on the General Conference Committee. From these positions of power they could gain many "blessings." Thus they manipulated her. And, since any manipulated person feels anger toward her controllers, she may have been unconsciously retaliating against them by "dumping" her vicious "denial and projection" testimonies on them. A friend of mine has recently written: ^^ ....thoughts ... concerning EGW and her "denial & projection" are thoughts I wish were in print -- having spent a number of hours in the EGW Research Center at Andrews University "after hours." A friend of mine [and I] would pore over letters, etc., that you don't see in print. ... She and James would get into big fights over theology, etc., and then EGW would have "a vision" that would settle the issue. This friend ... would point out to me these "convenient visions" that would settle the issue. And by the way (and I'm not just taking shots at EGW/Adventism), he also showed me a copy of EGW's certificate from a woman's Bible college. I was always taught that EGW didn't have more than a third grade education, which was more "evidence" for her writings being from God. ^^ And so, dear Adventist friend, what do you think? Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, You printed: "*** "As you are, you would mar all heaven. You are uncultivated, unrefined, and unsanctified. there is no place in heaven for such a character as you now possess.... You're further today from the standard of Christian perfection ... than you were a few months after you had received the truth." --Ellen G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 465, written in 1875." That brought back some memories! That was so familiar. Mom was so sincere about this whole righteousness thing. She talked a lot about it, made a lot of illustrations, etc. She made sure that I knew what sin was and all the little things that were necessary for me not to do so she wouldn't be shut out of heaven along with me. Some of the little things were her subjective ideas about right and wrong. Her friends didn't agree with her letting me ride my horse on the sabbath. In fact she was seriously councelled on that matter! Her take on this was that it was okay to ride the horse as long as it was a "nature expedition!" I was NOT to gallop my horse! Walking was the desired speed. Trotting was okay, but not the prefered speed! NO TRICKS! (booo hooo;-((!) Like standing instead of sitting;-) No standing beside the horse with its head in some grain, facing the back end, quickly swinging my leg over the neck just behind the ears and the horse FLINGING its head up so violently as to toss me either on its back or even the ground behind it!;-)) No bathing the horse, no swimming, no putting a bucking strap (twine) around the flank and doing the rodeo thingy;-))))! (Hmmm, that was fun, I'd break in a million pieces if I tried that now!;-) No "sicking" my horse on a dog, cat, chicken or bird;-) (My horse was really neat, he would really chase anything I would "sick" him on!;-) I mention all that so y'all can see or maybe even relate to some of the righteous rules I had to follow. JUST WHERE IN THE WORLD WAS THE BIBLICAL GROUNDS FOR THAT?????!!!!! Funny thing. Mom had me so convinced that all this was important that I seldom broke those rules! She was very fortunate that I was a compliant kid! Funny thing, I was always in trouble???? She says now that she can't understand why I was in so much trouble because I was a good kid! My main problem I guess was arguing! Still is;-) Wearing a dress was part of the reason that I left SDAism. Another very important reason was that I was VERY honest with myself KNEW that I would NEVER be good enough to reach that "standard of Christian perfection!" I gave up! I knew what other kids did when their parent's backs were turned!!!! I knew I didn't sneak behind my mom's back, yet was not anywhere near perfection! Hmmmmmmm, I guess that this subjective righteous perfection thing has really clobbered a lot of people to the core. I was so fortunate that it hasn't affected me like so many of the stories I hear other people tell. I wish I could impute some feathers to y'alls backs! My way of dealing with a lot of things is a good laugh! Then I'm told that is the supreme denial? Oh well, what ever, it seems to work for me;-) This post wouldn't be complete if I didn't mention that I am now safe and secure in Jesus! There IS no mountian of "rules" hide God! I am privileged, as is every other Christian, to have at my disposal, the Holy Spirit. With that comes disernment. Jesus said when He left this earth that He would leave us a helper. It's our fault if we don't use Him!!! Upward and onward.....Maryann | ||
| Max |
DEAR SDA FRIEND, Youíve just read the testimony of Maryann, a former Adventist. Whatís your take? Agree? Disagree? Whatís been your experience in relationship to Ellen Whiteís TESTIMONIES TO THE CHURCH? She made the following statements which she as the Spirit of Prophecy included in that set of red books. As you know, she directed these statements to you, af they apply to you, according to your mutual belief system. She asserted that: 1. ìThere is a great work to be accomplished for you before you can be accepted in the sight of God." 2. "You have a great work to do....î 3. ìIt is impossible for you to be saved as you are." 4. "As you are, you would mar all heaven.î 5. ìYou are uncultivated, unrefined, and unsanctified.î 6. ìThere is no place in heaven for such a character as you now possess.î 7. ìYou're further today from the standard of Christian perfection ... than you were a few months after you had received the truth." Do you believe this applies to you personally? Or do you think she was "denying and projecting"? LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU! Max of the Cross | ||
| Darrell |
Rom 5:8: "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." | ||
| Maryann |
" | ||
| Max |
Oh that was cute, Maryann! | ||
| Maryann |
I had a good teacher;-) | ||
| Max |
Darrell, This is an "inside joke" having nothing to do with you or your post, which is very apropos to the subject. And I thank you for it. Your brother in Christ, Max of the Cross | ||
| Darrell |
OK! |
