| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Dear Adventist Friend: Following is a dialogue between a current Seventh-day Adventist and a former Seventh-day Adventist. You are free to make of it what you will and to post your own reactions. God bless all, Max of the Cross *************************** *************************** CURRENT ADVENTIST FRIEND (CAF): What do you believe are the commandments of God? FORMER ADVENTIST FRIEND (FAF): Jesus said, If you love me keep MY [Christís] commandments. They comprise his incarnation, birth, life, teachings (such as the Sermon on Mt. Blessings), miracles, death, rest in the tomb, resurrection, ascention, and seat at the right hand of the Father. The Ten are but an imperfect restatement of the eternal commandments of God the Son who is ěthe exact representation of [Godís] beingî (Hebrews 1:3 NIV). CAF: Do you believe there are any commandments of God? FAF: The person of God the Son and Christ comprises ALL of the commandments of God and always has from before the foundation of the earth. CAF: If you say there are only two Commandments, when Jesus said, "Love God and love your neighbor", notice Jesus said these two laws were summed up, but from what? FAF: There is only ONE commandment: Thou shalt love! And it is summed up in the person of God the Son Jesus Christ. CAF: Are you saying that all we have to do is love others, and yet turn our face against God and make images and bow down before them and yet because we are showing our love for others, we are loving God in this manner? FAF: If all we do is love others, both God and man, then it is utterly impossible to ěturn our face against God and make images and bow down before them.î CAF: James 2 refers to all laws, including the 10 Commandments. FAF: James 2 distinguishes between (1) ěthe royal lawî found in Scripture (Lev. 19:18), ěLove your neighbor as yourselfî and (2) ěthe whole lawî -- all 613 of the Old Testament laws, including, but not limited to, the Ten Commandments. CAF: The 10 Commandments are a Law of Liberty if you have the right state of mind. FAF: Nowhere does Scripture say that the 10 Commandments are a Law of Liberty if you have the right state of mind. In the writings of Paul just the opposite is the case. For Paul, God the Son Jesus Christ IS the Law of Liberty, to whom the old covenant law (a mere shadow) could only point. For Paul the letter killeth, but the Holy Spirit -- Christ in us -- giveth life. And for the writer of Hebrews, it is God the Son Jesus Christ who ěis the radiance of Godís glory and the exact representation of his beingî (Hebrews 1:3) and therefore ěthe blueprint of Godís characterî -- certainly not the Ten Commandments. CAF: Do you believe that all you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved? If you say yes, then that means the devil is going to be in Heaven because the devil believes in Jesus Christ. He believes that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and that we are saved by Jesus free gift of Grace. I believe Satan is doomed to the decision he has made and he is going to try to deceive others with his false day of worship and force everyone to worship on it. FAF: My friend, you really are mishandling Holy Scripture. On the one hand, when Scripture says that all you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved, it refers to a warm, accepting ěheart belief.î On the other hand, when Scripture says the devils believe and tremble, it refers to a cold, calculating ěhead belief.î CAF: I look forward to the seventh-day Sabbath of rest. FAF: And indeed you have that right, given to you in Scripture (Romans 14), the same Scripture that (1) gives other Christians to right to consider ěevery day alikeî and (2) removes from you the right to try to require them to keep ěone day more sacred than anotherî as you do. CAF: Have you ever studied into the history of how the day was changed from the seventh-day Sabbath to the first day of the week? FAF: Scripture shows that the day was never ěchanged from the seventh-day Sabbath to the first day of the week.î For one thing, Paul never preached the Sabbath to the Gentiles and therefore the Gentiles (except for the miniscule minority who already were attending synagogue) never even started to keep the Sabbath day holy. CAF: If you claim that Jesus "truly" broke the Sabbath, the same Sabbath written by the hand of God to keep, Jesus would have sinned, because sin is the transgression of the Law, and hence, Jesus could not save us from our sins because there had to be a perfect sacrifice. FAF: It is John the beloved disciple -- not current or former Adventists or even the Pharisees of old -- who made the original scriptural observation that Jesus broke the Sabbath. NIV John 5:18 ěNot only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.î And in breaking the Sabbath Jesus did not sin, for Jesus WAS the Sabbath law and greater than the written form found in Exodus 20, for he was and is Lord and Creator of the Sabbath. The Builder has the right to break down any building he has constructed. Nor, according to the New Testament, is sin ěthe transgression of the law,î but rather ělawlessnessî (Greek). God the Son Jesus Christ IS the only true law, summed up in the one verb ělove,î and therefore it is impossible for him to break himself. CAF: If there was no Law, there would be no need for Jesus to even die on the cross for us in the first place. FAF: God the Son Jesus Christ IS the only perfect statement of the law (Hebrews 1:1-3). And the reason -- it was not a need, for God has no needs -- God died on the cross was to save us. CAF: Without law, life is lawlessness. That applies to every society nowadays. FAF: How true. For, since God the Son Jesus Christ IS the law, he is indeed the answer to lawlessness in every society in all times and places. CAF: I believe Jesus came and established what the Sabbath was really meant for, as an example. Jesus is Lord even of the Sabbath. Mark 2:27,28. FAF: Indeed so. For according to Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, God the Son Jesus Christ IS the Sabbath rest to whom the old covenant Sabbath was only a pointing shadow without substance (Colossians 2:13-17). CAF: The Pharisees were legalistic. FAF: Those Sabbatarians of old were no more legalistic than many Sabbatarians today, such as Samuele Bacchiocchi. The Pharisees have nothing on Seventh-day Adventists for Sabbath rules and regulations (see Bacchiocchiís Sabbatarian books). CAF: John the Beloved did indeed write that Jesus broke the Sabbath, but I believe he wrote it in regards of breaking the law of society of that day created by the Pharisees, not by God, not what it was meant to be. FAF: Jesus broke the Sabbath laws as stated -- not in the traditions of the ancient Jews -- but in Scripture. These Sabbath laws are stated in the 613 laws of the Old Testament (including the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue). It is scriptureal laws, and not ěthe traditions of menî that clearly prohibit ěany workî -- such as lifting and carrying a bed, reaping and thrashing grain, healing, leaving oneís own property (Exodus 16:29-30), etc., on the Sabbath. These were not laws enacted by the Pharisees, Jews or the children of Israel. | ||
| Sherry2 |
Any more of this conversation? Very interesting! I enjoyed it. | ||
| Loneviking |
My church is working through an interesting workbook on Wed. evenings. The workbook is entitled 'A Spiritual Formation Workbook' by James Bryan Smith with Lynda Graybeal. It's a Renovare' resource for spiritual renewel. Anyway, the book discusses the various streams of Christian thought such as 'the contemplative tradition', the 'holiness tradition'..etc. In the sacramental tradition I found something interesting relating to the Sabbath/healing issue. In Luke 13:10-17 is a story of Jesus teaching in the synagogues on the sabbath. He healed a women who had been crippled (bent over) for eighteen years and the leader of the synagogue had a fit and denounced Jesus for working on the sabbath. The workbook had this to say (in part) about this passage. 'In this passage from Luke's gospel we confront the age old division between work and faith. People, especially religious leaders, have tried to erect a wall between the two for millenia.... In this gospel passage we see no division between the sacred and the secular in the words and deeds of Jesus. In this passage, who Jesus was at the core of his being flowed out in an act of mercy as he observed the sacraments of his Jewish faith, shattering the fragile wall seperating faith and work, sacred and secular.' And isn't that truly what the New Covenant is about---shattering the wall between sacred and secular? No more sacred place or specific sacred time to worship----all places and all times can be sacred, and therefore there should be no division between our 'sacred' and 'secular' self. We are Christians 24 hours a day. And that leads to the problem of Sabbath observance of the SDA church. Most members would have been just as put out with Jesus as the leader of the synagogue was and for the same reason. It is, to me, another piece of evidence showing that the New Covenant is indeed very different from the old. Bill S. |
