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Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everyone,
I went to post this about a month ago and it wouldn't post. Then I would retype it but I would lose my screen. So here is one more try.
Has anyone else heard their sda friends talk about the list of food items (including cleaning products etc.) as having the 'mark' on them? I have a few sda friends. While shopping at the local grocery store, I bent down to pick up a brand of soap when my friend grabbed my arm and said 'no, not that one!'. With this I looked startled I'm sure and inquired as to why not that one. She explained to me that in church a list was given out of products not to buy. These products apparently indicate the mark of the beast as they contribute to satanic churches. Anyone else hear this yet?
Just curious.
God Bless all,
Denise
Valm
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know whether to believe it or not but have heard that the owner of Proctor and Gamble worships satan. If this is true there are many products in our homes which support this endeavour. Valerie
Lorinc
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 7:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They circulated the Proctor & Gamble list in our church, too, a few years back, along with some inflamatory comments supposedly made by P&G's President on "Donahue" or "Oprah" or something.

I don't suppose anyone outside his family really knows his religious beliefs, but the story that's been circulated and recirculated is apparently false.

You can read the details by going to www.snopes.com and searching for "Proctor and Gamble". Here's a brief excerpt:

"It's not an everyday question at most companies: Do you have any symbols of ram's horns on your products? Yet that's what Procter & Gamble Co.'s public relations staff is dealing with these days, as they once again fight off rumors that the company is somehow linked to satanism. A satanic ram's-horn symbol, the rumor goes, will soon start appearing on P&G products, bearing the devil's own number, 666.
"For P&G, it's the rumor that won't go away. On Aug. 28, the company sued Randy L. Haugen, an independent Amway Corp. distributor in Ogden, Utah, charging that he and unnamed others had made false and defamatory statements linking the company to satanism. "

Again, see www.snopes.com for the full story, and draw your own conclusions. :-)

- Lorin
Lydell
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh gag, here we go again. People please! go to the Urban Legends site and check stuff like this out. That little story started circulating back at least as far as 1979! James Dobson has checked in to the Proctor and Gamble story, as well as the drivel about Madelyn Murray O'Hare's group having a campaign going to stop religious broadcasting, etc., and has said that it is garbage. I'm so glad YOU checked it out before you passed it on to folks. We as Christians have far too tender hearts and are far to aware of evil in the world, so we tend to fall for stuff. We do need to be aware.

I am reminded of the guy we came into contact once who was all heated up about the "satanic symbols on cars". Yep, if a person really wants to, I'm sure they could dig enough to come up with some satanic origin for ANY symbol being used ANYwhere on the face of the planet.
Lydell
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know what our problem is? We forget to read the part of the verse that says "IF IT WERE POSSIBLE" we could be deceived by false Christ's and false prophets (yeah, we were in Adventism, yeah, we fell for the stuff.......BUT we aren't there now. Why? Because we had a heart for God and He straitened us out.)

The mark is not going to be secret, we aren't going to be able to inadvertantly stumble into taking it. God loves His people far too much to allow that to happen.

We have enough to fight without taking a swing at what isn't there. Maybe that is a lesson that we can take away from our experiences in Adventism and pass on to Christians. Goodness knows the SDA's spend all their time looking for the evil at work in the world! That's probably what made you question in your gut what the truth could be.
Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find it really sad that my friend believes this stuff. She had her favorite food items and soaps. For years she has used the same ones and now I go with her to the grocery store and watch her as she questions me on what would be a good detergent or bar soap or food products since she can't use the ones that she's been using all these years.
I did say, 'you aren't getting the mark with certain products', but she is devout in her belief and is frightened.
The whole thing makes me want to walk into that church, walk up to the podium and announce that it's hogwash! These scare tactics keep people in fear of alot of things.
So what I'm going to do, is a thorough study on the 'mark', write it up with Scriptural referrence, then hand it out to those I do know. This is the only way I can think of for now. Yes, I know they may not read it or want to know but I'll bet there are many who really would love to read such a thing. What fear it might relieve.
General Conference must okay all this stuff and I wish there were some way for me to address them. Because I certainly would.
I'm quite cynical sometimes but truly I see this as just another way of keeping people in church and dutifully paying their tithes. This is what I think of this bull.
Anyhow, I intend to question all three sda pastors about this in the coming few weeks. I want answers and you can bet that where they are teaching others this stuff, I will open my mouth. Guess I'm hopeless cause this is so ridiculous that I'm angry.
It's also good to know that this tactic has before been tried. This gives me more insight into the heirarchy. What grave teachings they stamp with their approval!
God Bless all,
Denise
Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lorin and Lydell,
Thank you for tips on the websites. I plan to check them out thoroughly and not only so, but print them out too. Personally, I had never heard of such a thing in my entire life. crazy..
God Bless you both,
Denise
Lorinc
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise,

As they say, "You go, girl!" :-) Just one minor point of clarification:

In the case that I mentioned, in my own church, the anti-P&G document was circulated at the grass-roots level by a couple of individual members. Since I was a local elder at the time, I know for a fact that it wasn't passed down from the GC or the state conference. I should have stated more clearly who the "they" was that was passing it around.

Still, a "mark" study would be worthwhile; I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. I know it's not Sunday-keeping, but I'm not sure what it *is* / *will be* / whatever. Revelation has been the least of my worries during my "coming out" (of Adventism, that is!) process... :-)

God Bless,
Lorin
Valm
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This information and encouragement to boycott P&G products is not just within Adventism. A very dear man in my congregation emailed this info to me months ago. I had seen it before and didn't make too much of it.

If SDA's truely believe this is the mark of the beast, where does that leave their current (or past) theory on the mark of the beast (being Sunday worship and the RC church)?

If I believed that the head of P&G really did worship Satan, I wouldn't buy their products, but I did not buy into it. It certainly keeps the mind preoccupied reading all of those labels...........
Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lorin,
In this local Church, it came from the top. Either that or the pastor that okay'd it didn't ask permission from the top. I do know that it was handed out to all the members.
I plan to start this endeavor of study next week. Give me at least a month to prepare.
God Bless you,
Denise

Valerie,
I've now seen and heard about so many things that are supposedly the 'mark of the beast', that it's appalling! Not just Sunday worship..can't stop there. Infact, the sdas I know, have many things that constitute the 'mark'. What fear they must have inside.
I almost feel like there is no common sense in these people. I'm a person of common sense, er at least I like to think I am, and I can see right through this insurmountable amount of 'blarney'. I guess that's why I react like I do..with absolute anger at the audacity of the leaders. They have to know that some of this is a little bit 'out there'. Wouldn't you think? I believe that there is at least one who does and why that one doesn't speak up is beyond my reseasoning. What pity I have for not only these leaders but especially for the blind followers.
God Bless you and your household,
Denise
Valm
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sure is "out there" but when you get out there a little step at a time you just don't notice how far out you have went.

I understand your passion towards the audacity of the leaders. It is hard to remember that they are as "out there" in their thinking as their congregations are. They sincerely believe they are helping others by passing this info out and asking them to do one more thing in their lives. Sad but true.

What I struggle with most on things like this is how to you speak reasonably with people who do not perceive reason anymore? Also, what will happen to those leaders who have done this for many years if a light bulb goes off and they recognize it for what it is? Will they rejoice in knowing God or become emotionally crushed from the pain and suffering they have led others into?

There are so many things like this out there that do preoccupy the minds of many. In our fast paced lives, it is too difficult to research every thing out to find out if it is an urban legend or if their is truth in it. When my family mentions things like this I don't have anything to say to them which makes them see me as the poor uninformed sinner and imposes on them a need to enlighten me, very exhausting on family relations. A case in example is how many people stock piled for Y2K and sincerely thought that it would be the end of time. What do you say to them if you sincerely haven't spent time studying about it? My extent of study on that one was asking my husband who is an engineer and works with computers what was his take on it. (Answer unrepeatable) One of my family members actually sent info about preparing for it.

I am glad that there are people like you that manage to find the time to look into these things. Good luck on your research and as always I look forward to what you share.
Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valerie,
Funny you should mention Y2K. I was one of those that stockpiled..true story. Infact when others would look at me and what I had purchased they would laugh at me. Ah but inside,,yes inside I just knew that these same people would be thankful later when the crisis hit, that I did stockpile. I really believed the end was coming and knew that I would be of great service to those that did not prepare. Wow, that's less than a year ago too. Now I can look back and see how far I've come. The Lord is Good :))
God Bless you,
Denise, the usetobestockpiler
Valm
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Open mouth and insert foot. Denise thank you for the chuckle on myself. God Bless You too. Valerie
Max
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anybody for refusing to call the days of the
week by their currently accepted English
names? Reason: They ALL come from the
names of pagan gods.

Sunday -- Sun's day:
Middle English sone(n)day or sun(nen)day
from Old English sunnandÊg "day of the sun"
(god) from Germanic sunnon-dagaz "day of
the sun" (god) from Latin dies solis "day of the
sun" (god).

Monday -- Moon's day:
Middle English monday or mone(n)day ìmoon
[god] dayî from Old English mon(an)dÊg "day
of the moon" (god).

Tuesday -- Tiu's day:
Old English tiwesdÊg "Tiw's (Tiu's) day" or
day of the English/Germanic god of war and
the sky, same as the Norse god Tyr.

Wednesday -- Woden's day:
Old English wodnesdÊg "Woden's day."
Woden is the chief Anglo-Saxon/Teutonic god,
leader of the Wild Hunt, from wod "violently
insane" + -en "headship," same as the Norse
god Odin.

Thursday -- Thor's day:
Middle English thur(e)sday from Old English
thursdÊg similar to Old Norse thorsdagr
"[god] Thor's day" = Old English thunresdÊg
"[god of] thunder's day." Thor is the Norse god
of thunder.

Friday -- Freya's day:
Middle English fridai from Old English
frigedÊg "Freya's day." Freya (Fria) is the
Teutonic goddess of love, beauty, and
fecundity (prolific procreation) and is the same
as the Norse goddess Freya, leader of the
Valkyries and one of the Vanir.

Saturday -- Saturn's day:
Middle English saterday from Old English
sÊter(nes)dÊg "[the god] Saturn's day.î
Saturn is the Roman-Italian god of agriculture.

Sources: William Morris, editor, The American
Heritage Dictionary of the English Language,
New College Edition, Houghton Mifflin
Company, Boston, 1976. Webster's
Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the
English Language, Portland House, New
York, 1989. William Matthew O'Neil, Time and
the Calendars, Sydney University Press, 1975.

More available at:
http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/days.html
Maryann
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good grief!!!!! We've been worshipping "other god's" all our SDA lives!!

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