| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
To all who are nervous about finding a non-SDA congregation: Belief in Jesus IS proclaimed and salvation by faith alone IS espoused by SDAs. But even more loudly proclaimed is: Get ready for Jesus to come! This message they knowingly and deliberately direct toward already-saved Christ followers. So the sub-message within the message is: You are not ready! Get the menace? The gospel is insufficient! Free costly grace doesn't get the job done! Before you can be admitted into heaven you have to Stand Before God Without a Mediator! The One who said "I will never leave you or forsake you" must leave you and forsake you. And you must go through a time of trouble the like of which has never been seen before upon the face of the earth. All without Christ! Not the devil, though! Thus does the most subtle evil heart of the SDA heresy reveal itself with all its maggots wiggling. It removes from you your certainty of salvation in one fell blow: For if you are not ready for Jesus to come you are NOT saved! "What then," asks this born-again Christian, "do I still lack?" Replies the SDA evangelist: 1. You must accept the fact that your salvation was not complete on the cross or when Christ sat down at the right hand of the Father -- but it only began to be completed in 1844. 2. You must start keeping the Sabbath in order to obtain the seal of God and stop your Sunday worship, for that is the mark of the beast. 3. You must pay me tithe. 4. You must stop drinking wine. 5. You must remove your wedding band from off your finger and never mind that suddenly threatened husband of yours! 6. You must stop eating pork and all other unclean meats. (Never mind that Jesus declared all foods clean in Mark 7:19.) In fact, before Jesus can come you must stop eating meat altogether, for, "Those who persist in eating the flesh of dead animals will go from God's people to walk with them no more." --EGW. (It's okay to WEAR their hides, though.) 7. And not only that, but you have to accept Ellen G. White as God's only latter-day prophet and as the sole infallible interpreter of Scripture, as one who has authority to add to and take away from Scripture. 8. Be rebaptized! -- by immersion. 9. Let others defend you and your country by killing in wartime. 10. Etcetera (such as send your kids to SDA schools) .... THIS is what you must do to be saved. And even then you won't be, for you haven't preached this so-called "gospel" to the entire world yet, have you? For Christ cannot come till you do! Legalism? Pharisaism? You decide. Christianity it is not. Max of the Cross | ||
| Billtwisse |
You have summarized it well, Max. I was reminded of all this when a good number of my SDA relatives were at my home at Thanksgiving! Although they view me as an agent of the devil, they like my hospitality and prosperity! God sometimes blesses his own as a testimony against those who think little of the truth of the gospel! --Twisse | ||
| Cindy |
Dear "Agent of the Devil" :-)) I suppose you even had real turkey and not the "mock turkey" stuff? Grace always, :-)) Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
Max, Yes, interesting post of yours...(although the 'no wedding ring' rule is kind of dying a slow death; except with the die-hard "amazing facts' crusaders... Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Graceambassador |
Hey Max: Great job in your summary. Apart from EGW and a few other comments, MANY pentecostal organizations, and even traditional ones, such as some branches of A.G., are falling into the same trap of proclaiming one Gospel and teaching another. Thanks! Grace Ambassador | ||
| Valm |
Cindy, My husband figured we had a vegetarian turkey this year as he doesn't know of any turkey that eats meat. That was about as close as our household got. Val | ||
| Valm |
Max, Is there a Biblical text that is distorted by the SDA theology to suggest that we would not have a mediator or is that just straight EGW? I can't quite remember but wasn't the "without a mediator" just in the final days or is that also apply to the end of a person's life when they are judged by God? I remember it as a child and it was pretty frightening. Now it just seems plain impossible. | ||
| Cindy |
Val, that is good...a vegetarian turkey! :-)) I remember one Thanksgiving five years ago when my youngest son was hospitalized with an intense headache and high fever that we couldn't get to come down below 103 degrees. He was only seven years old at the time and it was very scary; he was so unresponsive during a spinal tap to rule out meningitis. Then a CAT scan showed a severe sinus infection. (Nobody in our family had ever had a sinus infection and I didn't realise they could be so bad.) Fortunately after a few days on strong antibiotics he improved; and I remember the first real meal he ate--with any real appetite--was a special Thanksgiving one the Children's Hospital had fixed since it was Thanksgiving day! It was so good to see him devour the mashed potatoes and gravy, the green beans, rolls, etc. and then...turkey?! He ate all of that meal, turkey included, saying how good it tasted!... and me, being the paranoid vegetarian that I was, worried what effect this would have on his body. My husband said, "let him enjoy it!" and he was right...no problems, and a regaining of strength to come back home. He turns 13 tomorrow and is set to hit the snowboard slopes in the morning in good shape...He still remembers that great meal! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Valm |
I would imagine that turkey and Thanksgiving took on new meaning that year. Valerie | ||
| Maryann |
Speaking of vegetarian turkey...... When I was about 10, my non-SDA/heathen/unsaved Aunt from Calgary came to visit us in Collegedale Tenn. Mom, being a vegetarian cook 2nd to no-one, really put on the feast's. Aunt Margaret enjoyed all this good cooking and seemed quite interested in the recipes and so on. Mom had to make a dish with eggs and Aunt M. seemed surprised that we used eggs. Without batting an eye, Mom said, "Oh, they are vegetarian eggs!" Aunt M. then asked, "Do vegatarian eggs have shells?!" Hmmmmm, I think that was a logical question;-)) | ||
| Max |
Dear Val, You wrote, ^^Is there a Biblical text that is distorted by the SDA theology to suggest that we would not have a mediator or is that just straight EGW?^^ That's such an excellent question I can't believe it! It seriously got my dendrites dancing. I don't have time to go into the answer as it deserves, but I did look up all NIV occurrences of the word "mediator" in the New Testament. Here's the result: Galatians 3:19-20ÝWhat, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed [Christ] to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a MEDIATOR.ÝA MEDIATOR, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. [NIV text note: ìThe Mosaic covenant was a formal arrangement of mutual commitments between God and Israel, with Moses as the MEDIATOR. But since the promise god covenanted with Abraham involved commitment only fom godís side (and God is one...), NO MEDIATOR WAS INVOLVED.î] 1 Timothy 2:5Ý1 For there is one God and one MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Hebrews 8:6ÝBut the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs [Levitical priests] as the covenant of which he is MEDIATOR is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. Hebrews 9:15ÝChrist is the MEDIATOR of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 12:24ÝJesus [is] the MEDIATOR of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. For now, the point would be: THERE WAS NO DIVINE MEDIATOR UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. ONLY MOSES WHO WAS NOT DIVINE AND THEREFORE COULD NOT TRULY MEDIATE. THEREFORE, SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS REMOVE THE MEDIATOR, REMOVE CHRIST, AND GET BACK TO OLD COVENANT DAYS. This topic needs a great deal more investigation, since removing the Mediator (Christ) is consistent with removing the Eternal Sabbath Rest (Christ) and going back to the old covenant Sabbath day. Interesting, Val, SERIOUSLY interesting! Thanks so much! Max of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
I will review those texts later this evening, I have to go get my fingers warmed up on the organ at church. Impulsively, I remember a text Lo I am with you always. Isn't it completed with even unto the end? That would certainly suggest that he will never leave us. To me this is one of the teachings ofthe SDA church that it is paramount to know and understandis not true. Not only does it give a great sense of relief to the person (me) but also enables them to discuss this subject with their SDA loved ones properly. I decided to get a journal book and divide off into the most key Biblical subjects that SDAs waver from and to enter the Bible texts accordingly. Any reccomendations to the subjects? So far I have GRACE, MEDIATOR, JESUS OUR TRUE SABBATH, FOOD AND DRINK. | ||
| Darrell |
Ro 8:27 "and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God." Ro 8:34 "who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." Heb 7:25 "Therefore He is able also to SAVE FOREVER those who draw near to God through Him, since He ALWAYS LIVES to make intercession for them" Praise God we don't need to worry about standing before Him without a mediator! | ||
| Valm |
Thanks Darrell, They will be my first entries under mediator. Valerie PS I thought of another catagory for my book; Jesus our highpriest and the 1844 myth. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Valerie, How about the 'Old Covenant vs. the New Covenant'. This is one that I find to have the most difficulty in when dialoguing with SDAs and some others. God Bless, Denise | ||
| Valm |
I will add it to the list. A good resource for texts are in the links of FAF I came across a six chapter book online on this very subject. I can't remember the author but did read the first chapter on Friday. I think I will go there next.Valerie | ||
| Valm |
Go to links and selct New Covennt Christians. It is written by Clay Peck. Valerie | ||
| Valm |
Max, I don't quite understand the Galations text and think I will have to read the whole chapter to get it. The other ones will be written in my journal under mediator. I know the collection of these texts will be beneficial to me. Playing the counterpoint role, I would think if I was discussing this with my SDA loved ones they would agree that Christ was their mediator but would still hold on to the notion that in the last days the Holy spirit will be withdrawn from them and they will be without their mediator. Where do they get this notion? Is it straight EGW or misconstrued Bible texts? Valerie | ||
| Max |
Val, You have asked some complicated questions that I don't have time to answer right now. God gave you an excellent mind! Off hand, I can assure you that there is no text anywhere in Scripture that so much as hints that the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from heart believers. Nor is there any text that suggests that "the last days" did not begin with the First Coming of Christ, the incarnation (Christmas). And there are a multitude of texts that state categorically that "the last days" had already arrived before the New Testament books were written down. You ask, "Where do they [your loved ones] get this notion?" Answer: from some source other than Scripture. Certainly from Ellen G. White. Holding on to "the notion that in the last days the Holy spirit will be withdrawn from them and they will be without their mediator" is unscriptural at best and satanic at worst. Harsh, but it is to their best good that they be apprised of scriptural truth in agape love, for they are "bewitched" (Galatians 2). Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Thanks, Darrell, for those texts from Romans and Hebrews. I'm working on the idea that there was no effective or lasting mediation before Christ came (Incarnation = Christmas = Emanuel). The mediation of Moses was temporary and ineffectual. And that our Adventist friends are trying to drag us back under the mediation of Moses. A major heresy that I have only recently noticed. More later. Max of the Cross |
